That’s only taking the trauma lock into account, whereas physical and perception manipulation still take into effect. But I do agree with the last assessment that zues and pele would be their biggest threats, along with maybe Arthur, but because of the sword it genuinely is hard to know how that interaction would play out. Zues has incredible range and low cooldown so spamming lightning over the area would effectively counter perception manipulation. And pele’s odd biology might be an issue. Zues could potentially lose if Lucifer used their perception manipulation to sneak up on them, but I feel any of the fables would win if they snuck up on any of the other fables. Luci’s toolkit just seems more inclined to it.
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I agree on the physical manipulation but not on the perception manipulation because that seems to me at least tied to the trauma lock aspect of luci’s powers since it seems that just having a strong enough willpower is enough to negate it.
As shown in the alyosha fight the moment he broke out of the trauma lock the dreamscape/perception manipulation went right along with it so in the end it would mostly come down to just how effective luci’s physical manipulation is on the other fables and if they could utilize it well enough before being taken out.
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As shown after Luci ends the trauma lock with Kaya and Hans, they alter their perception to still be seen with the devilish appearance, this would require insane skill in manipulating perception, either actively overlaying the devilish image, or rewriting their recognition so they see them in that way. The reason I suspect they don’t do this with Alyosha is that it wouldn’t have the same effect since he wasn’t exposed to the trauma lock. And willpower doesn’t seem to inherently be what’s stopping it from working either. In terms of mortals, Alyosha is singularly the only person it didn’t work on, which has been thousands of years worth of time for only a single person to have the “willpower” to overcome it. It was rather explicitly written that there was something special about Alyosha that made him uniquely resistant to it. I understand your reasoning, but I don’t think there’s evidence to support willpower being that special factor. In Arthur’s case, we’ve been told Lucifer would find it difficult because they’d be fighting the sword for control as well, so that may be a similar issue with Alyosha as well, he could potentially be using a sentient weapon or some other unique quality that provides that resistance
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Exactly which proves my point luci doesn’t use it with alyosha because he broke the trauma lock so what would be the point of overlaying the devil image on someone it doesn’t effect?
But then in the next line you have alyosha stating that he overcame the fears luci was trying to exploit, luci just assumed theres something special about him due to the fact that he/she couldn’t comprehend the fact that someone isn’t scared of them.
There’s also no evidence against it being willpower that allowed him to break through it after all it take a lot of willpower to overcome ones fears.
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I remember Raven from Teen Titans doing exactly that to Beast Boy during that episode with that Book she was reading so much. She forcibly morphed Beast Boy into another form. That was surprising and I can maybe see Lucifer doing something similar if they mastered their nerve control to that degree specifically.
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I remember Wokung can transform into an inorganic material without nerve, like a diamond for example like the diamond claw Wokung use in combat. So I can imagine Lucifer only has one change to do this as ambush.
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Does anyone know if he’s going to still fiddle with Ishtar at all or not?
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@Zarkrai It’s been years since i seen that show but yeah i remember that too.
@Leon_Kincoln Agreed it would either have to be an ambush or at the start of the fight or lucifer could just wait until wukong transforms into something organic like a puppy for example.
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That’s why they didn’t overlay the devil image, that’s not the extent of their perception manipulation, they just did that thing in particular to drive fear into Hans and Kaya.
Verbal testimony isn’t really evidence tho. He can say it’s because of whatever he feels at the time, but doesn’t really mean anything.
The burden of proof would be on you to show that it does because you’re making the claim. People have been making this willpower claim since Luci has been released but not once has that been stated to be true. Literally the only reason the author gave for why Arthur would be resistant to it is because he has a sentient sword that is literally also trying to control him.
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Sun Wukong might be able to turn into tungsten and survive Pele, Assuming Pele cant get any hotter than the surface of the sun.
But Zeus would still wreck him. Rubber might be resistant to electricity but lighting has a temp of about 50,000 degrees F, so anything rubber would quickly melt just from proximity.
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funny you say this because author said that Wukong is Zeus worst matchup among the fables
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Really can you prove that? because so far outside of the dreamscape that seems to be the extent of perception manipulation the only reason it isn’t used on alyosha is because he wasn’t affected by the trauma lock which you said yourself.
So you think alyosha is lying when he said he overcame his fears and that it’s because there’s something special about him ok prove it.
You mean like this albiet it was only a fraction of a second kaya managed to stave lucifer off.
Honestly at this point we’re just talking in circles so i think we should just agree to disagree.
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If anything Id guess Alyosha was resistant to Lucifers power because it aligns with what he already experiences continuously.
Hard to use someones guilt and fears against them if they are already used to their guilt and fear tearing at them constantly. Alyosha might just be like “Huh, normal tuesday then”
Of course thats just me making a guess.
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True, but I feel like the author didnt really take into account just how hot lightning gets, there are remarkably few substances can withstand temps of 50k Fahrenheit (As in, not a single one in the known universe), and i cant think of any that would both survive the temp and resist the electric shock.
In fact a quick google search suggests that the most heat resistant material in the known universe (Tantalum Hafnium Carbide Alloy) can only withstand up to about 7.5k Fahrenheit
And also according to my googling, for rubber to effectively protect from lightning, it would need to be roughly a thousand feet thick.
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I’m not a physicist so I’m not sure how the thermal energy works when something is struck by lightning, but considering that living and non-living things don’t get incinerated into oblivion it is fair to assume that you don’t get hit by all that heat, humans can even survive getting hit by one so the heat of a lightning wouldn’t be too high either.
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I was under the impression that was mainly due to how fast lightning strikes occured, thermal energy can only transfer so fast. Not sure if it would go as well with soneone like Zeus who coule just drop a continuous lightning bolt, or thousands of rapid fire lightning bolts
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Yeah that’s fair, though I doubt all of them would hit against an augmented in the same tier as any of the mc.
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And in this guys case seven times.
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- It is a reasonable assumption based on the fact that their power directly manipulates the mind and nervous system as a whole, which includes your sensory organs and processes. And it makes more sense that the trauma lock is a combination of sensory and emotional manipulation rather than it be something entirely separate from the rest of their powers, given how they’ve been shown to manipulate the senses to a degree AND are confirmed to have emotional manipulation AND can manipulate the nervous system like someone playing with strings.
- I don’t think he’s lying, I think he doesn’t know. This is his first time ever encountering Lucifer. Immortals are RARE and powers like Luci’s likely are too. It’s odd to look at the situation, see how one person out of all the times Luci has used this always able to only resist a specific aspect of the power, and assume whatever answer they give is correct. I doubt Alyosha deals with mind manipulators on a daily to confirm his theory, especially not one as strong as Luci
- Mental fortitude doesn’t equal willpower. Its like a lock vs LPL, some locks may take longer to pick than others, but that in the end, they brains gonna get hijacked. Again, Alyosha still fell victim to Luci’s abilities, it’s specifically the trauma lock that they uniquely were resistant to. If willpower was all that was necessary, there’d be no reason for the physical manipulation to continue to work.
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I think its better to just ask the author how Ruby escape Lucifer’s powers than argue how the power works
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