Monsters of New Haven High - last update 4/02

[Lys]

For what its worth, I know I wouldn’t mind seeing other monsters which are culture/race specific like the Wendigo from other regions.

@Eiwynn

With regard to this: the European myths is far different then the East Asian versions, so much that I view them entirely different races. (the differences between different regions of Europe could even be seen as this but that is another argument for another post)

There are many variants as well from many cultures. The big thing is they tend to share some similarities, like the blood drinking, but there can be many differences.

For example, I like the penangallen of Malaysia comes to mind. By day, they look and act like a normal person, but at night, the head, spinal column, and a few other organs detach so the vampire can go hunt at night.

Arguably one of the more famous kind are the Chiang Shi of Chinese myth (and there are a million spellings of it). What is unique is they are sometimes called “hopping demons”…though I admit, Dracula on a pogo stick does amuse me.

I think my personal favorite, and one I actually managed to get included as a monster (or a playable race) on some Kickstarter pen and paper RPGs was the Adze (not the tool) of East African myths. Taking the form of a blood-drinking firefly, it is capable of assuming human form.

If you are going for ‘several’ competing vampire courts, I also like to adapt the Cihuatateo from Aztec myth.

Anyways, I won’t go to far off in this direction.

[ladyfire]

Just throwing my voice in to the mix. I’m almost positive that the only race-locking is with the Wendigo. All of the suggested names are just names that are themed for the monster (i.e. Demons = well known demon names, vampire = names in vampire lore, etc, etc). This is not race-locking.

Also, and I don’t want this to seem like an attack @anon49824592, but your issues with the demons are kind of nit-picky. I get annoyed when people suggest adding in options for their specific roleplay or whatever when the author had no intention of adding those options in because of the way they are writing the story. “This option should be in because (for example) I want to play an ugly demon” is not good feedback, imo. Suggestions are okay, but they can pile up and become overwhelming.

It should be noted that Sashira is taking feedback into consideration, and I in no way speak for them, but what I said is something to keep in mind. This is their story, and while wanting certain options in is not unreasonable, if they spend too much time adding in every little thing, the story will never get finished.

[mistylavenda]

Incidentally, the Chinese also use the term “jiang shi” to describe Western vampires and zombies as well.

[Sashira]

@anon49824592

But you haven’t applied this standard consistently to the other monsters. The succ/incubus is specific to Judeo-Christian theology (which involves some geographic constraints), but it isn’t racelocked to Western Europe and the Middle East.

So your critique here is that the racial diversity you can select as the 'cubus could be expanded? I intended for 'cubi to be able to look however they like (EDIT: in terms of race) and tried to give them a variety: what more would you like to see added to that?
(Also - in this universe, it remains unclear what the actual origin of 'cubi are; while their name is derived from Latin/the Judeo-Christian legend, it’s implied that they may be incarnations of earlier spirits found throughout human cultures.)

@anon49824592

There are vampires in Asian folklore, if ‘Vampire: The Masquerade’ is any indication, but all the names available for the vampire come from Eastern/Western Europe.

That’s a decent point, actually. I poured a lot of research and effort into giving all of the species meaningful default names, figuring that people who were unsatisfied with those could make their own. But if that ends up implying that vampires are race-locked, that’s not what I was going for. I’ll make a note of it.

@anon49824592

There are goblins in Hindu theology, but the available names for the goblins are (I think) Welsh.

My goblins are Fae, descended from the Celtic isles. So technically, all goblins are European. Because they never looked human in the first place, they aren’t attached to any particular appearance and have diversity in the glamours they choose. This was reflected in the different hair color/textures they can have but never spelled out. Hm, maybe I can give them a chance to have a “family name” from their heritage, and a “use name” that reflects their human identity - faeries are fond of secret names anyway.

@anon49824592

Secondly, let’s talk about the incubus.

It would be possible to be a 'cubus who dislikes sex, just as some humans have an aversion to food; it’s also possible to be a 'cubus who dislikes/rejects beauty standards, and is merely seen as beautiful anyway. Because this would be so rare among their kind, I probably won’t add it in as an option. I’ll see later in the game whether 'cubi seem to need more opportunities for personality divergence. I did originally conceive of the possibility of asexual 'cubi, a variation like those you’re suggesting; I cut it because of the difficulty of implementing it.

@anon49824592

I notice that ‘Issei’ and "Sagawa’ (from the Japanese cannibal murderer Issei Sagawa) are still Wendigo naming options.

It’s been pointed out - I forget who first brought that to my attention, maybe it was you? I agree, it should go; the main reason it hasn’t yet is that I take my names seriously, and wanted to put some time into finding a good replacement. I’ve also been debating whether historical or apocryphal murderers (like Sawney Bean or Vlad Tepes) are inappropriate, and if not, why.

@anon49824592

are we seriously arguing about the offensiveness of the term ‘sapiosexual’

Different people are offended by different things? If it were important to the game, I’d defend it (like when people thought it was problematic to have a mentally ill monster, see: Wendy.) It’s a hidden flag; it’s not.

@anon49824592

I would like to point out that art has historically had the political impact of a wet paper bag.

I’d refute that, but we’d get way off-topic really fast.

@anon49824592

@Sashira doesn’t seem likely to alter any of this, so there doesn’t seem to be a point in trying to change her mind. I had hoped otherwise; more fool me.

Hey, I can speak for myself! I really do appreciate people pointing out these kinds of things. I have a lot to juggle at once here, things slip, and some I don’t realize in the first place.

p.s.: The one species not mentioned was the werewolf. Did the combination of names/appearances not give the same impression of race-locking?

[Mxm124]

Only impression of racelocking was the wendigo being exclusively Native American. The names were just cultural references to each species and just suggestions for names. Otherwise nothing else stuck out at me.

[Sashira]

Fixed currently reported game-breaking bugs, except for any left in the unfinished Day 2 after-school scenes. Made a note of other display problems and top-priority edits. As before, if an old version of the scene is showing up, you can either clear your cache, use a private browsing window, or try again later.

This is my remaining coding mystery, as far as technical bugs:

@VioletHikari

I don’t know if it shows or not (this is my first time uploading a picture here…), but basically it says that the scene where Hunter and Artemis try to ambush me is incomplete…

@ladyfire

Also, when selecting “start again from day 2” and attempting to surf MonsterNet, I get the “attractiveness” error again.

There is no longer any mention of “attractive” as a variable, and there is only one version of the Twins scene unfinished (not that one.) I can’t figure out why using the save system (which is just going to a scene which sets variables and back) should resurrect an earlier file. It’s possible it’s a cache error, if not everyone is getting it.

[Carlos.R]

Does it have anything to do with your *return on line 137 of save_states.txt?

[ruhenri]

@Sashira just wanted to take the time to congratulate you on this fantastic game. Great characters, interesting and detailed setting, good interpersonal relationships between the MC and the NPCs, well written, so many choices with impact in the story… you name it. Really great game.

[anon49824592]

I think you misunderstand. I didn’t ask for the 'cubus appearance option and backstory option to be changed because I wanted a particular Edgy Roleplay. I asked for the 'cubus options to be changed because they seem to fit better with the classical view of demons. The cubus pictured in the oil painting below is not particularly pretty, nor does he (she?) look like they’re having a good time. Of course I’d prefer to play as an ugly demon, but my personal preference was never the primary motivator.

The Nightmare

[anon49824592]

@Sashira

So your critique here is that the racial diversity you can select as the 'cubus could be expanded? I intended for 'cubi to be able to look however they like (EDIT: in terms of race) and tried to give them a variety: what more would you like to see added to that?

I think you misunderstand. I’m not complaining about the incubus’ racial variety; I was very happy with it, and would’ve liked to see that applied to the Wendigo as well.

@Sashira

It’s been pointed out - I forget who first brought that to my attention, maybe it was you? I agree, it should go; the main reason it hasn’t yet is that I take my names seriously, and wanted to put some time into finding a good replacement. I’ve also been debating whether historical or apocryphal murderers (like Sawney Bean or Vlad Tepes) are inappropriate, and if not, why.

I think that was me, yes. The problem with using Sagawa is that he’s currently free (his father was rich and influential) and is a minor celebrity in Japan, where he works as a food critic and occasionally writes unpleasant letters to his victim’s family. Making him even more of a pop-culture byword is a bit disrespectful to the dead and, more importantly, to the family of the dead, who are still alive to see their daughter’s murder treated flippantly.

Sawney Bean and Vlad Tepes and Gilles de Rais, on the other hand, operated so long ago (if Sawney actually existed at all) that their victims’ descendants probably couldn’t care less about their existence in pop culture. Hence my suggestion that you use their names instead.

Finally, I don’t want to sound like I’m attacking you or your work. This is one of my favorite WIPs, and it’s certainly better than anything I’ve tried doing on this forum. I wouldn’t be making so many suggestions if I didn’t admire it.

[HomingPidgeon]

@anon49824592

classical view of demons.

The game has a modern setting and uses unique interpretations of the other monsters–a classical demon has some interest but as it stands, it would feel really odd in a story that’s mostly setting up its own internal logic with regards to the mythology of the monster types. Making one of the species more true to classical, somewhat outdated versions (modern 'cubi are usually portrayed as attractive by the standards of their time period) would feel really out of place in a story like this.

[ladyfire]

@anon49824592

I think you misunderstand. I didn’t ask for the 'cubus appearance option and backstory option to be changed because I wanted a particular Edgy Roleplay. I asked for the 'cubus options to be changed because they seem to fit better with the classical view of demons. The cubus pictured in the oil painting below is not particularly pretty, nor does he (she?) look like they’re having a good time. Of course I’d prefer to play as an ugly demon, but my personal preference was never the primary motivator.

You completely missed my point, which was that this is Sashira’s story, and they decided that the demons would look and function a certain way because it fits the lore of the world that they created. Your suggestion was acknowledged (at least once I believe) but they are in no way obligated to write their demons that way, and you creating a post that complained about the lack of “ugly edgy demons” was what prompted me to say what I said. If it’s not about your personal gameplay, then it’s about you claiming to know better than Sashira how this story should go, which is just as presumptuous if not more so.

@anon49824592

I wouldn’t be making so many suggestions if I didn’t admire it.

Okay but, when a suggestion isn’t implemented, don’t complain about it, you know?

I would like to repeat that I do not speak for Sashira. This is just how I personally feel based on what I see all too often in the WIP threads here, and in other gaming communities.

[anon49824592]

@ladyfire

You completely missed my point, which was that this is Sashira’s story, and they decided that the demons would look and function a certain way because it fits the lore of the world that they created. Your suggestion was acknowledged (at least once I believe) but they are in no way obligated to write their demons that way.

I think I’ve made it pretty clear that my comments about the 'cubus are only part of a critique that I felt would make the story flow better–not complaints. You’re right to say that Sashira can write the demon how she wants in the final product, and I never meant to suggest otherwise. My only actual complaint with the game has been over the Wendigo racelocking.

@ladyfire

you creating a post that complained about the lack of “ugly edgy demons” was what prompted me to say what I said.

I’m pretty sure I never made such a post. I suggested that having a more classical (i.e. hideous) incubus would improve the gameplay, yes. But I never suggested that a different interpretation would be a dealbreaker, and I never used the phrase you’re quoting. Please don’t put words in my mouth.[quote=“ladyfire, post:3225, topic:7014”]

@ladyfire

which is just as presumptuous if not more so.

Is the ad hominem really necessary? This is a game, not a sacred text.

[ladyfire]

[quote=“anon49824592, post:3226, topic:7014, full:true”]
I think I’ve made it pretty clear that my comments about the 'cubus are only part of a critique that I felt would make the story flow better–not complaints. You’re right to say that Sashira can write the demon how she wants in the final product, and I never meant to suggest otherwise. My only actual complaint with the game has been over the Wendigo racelocking. [/quote]

I don’t think that has anything to do with the flow of the story. Adding in those options would most likely make the story flow less, imo. And even if Sashira added in (for instance) an option for the cubi that is unattractive, there would most likely only be one option in character creation, which would lead to actual complaints of why aren’t there more ugly options? Do you see where I’m going with this? My whole point was that while your suggestions themselves are not the issue, too many can be overwhelming for authors, especially suggestions that aren’t really constructive (i.e. suggestions for adding in this specific option or that).

On the subject of the Wendigo racelocking, there is a very good, very important story reason for that, so I don’t understand why you disagree with race-locking the Wendigo character?

[quote=“anon49824592, post:3226, topic:7014, full:true”]
I’m pretty sure I never made such a post. I suggested that having a more classical (i.e. hideous) incubus would improve the gameplay, yes. But I never suggested that a different interpretation would be a dealbreaker, and I never used the phrase you’re quoting. Please don’t put words in my mouth.[/quote]

Secondly, let’s talk about the incubus. I mentioned earlier that the incubus didn’t have to be an Impossibly Beautiful Edward Cullen expy. This is only partially because I’d prefer to play an edgy, hideous demon.

I was close enough. And I never implied that you considered a different implementation a dealbreaker, please don’t put words into my mouth. The tone of your post began with a complaint (re: race-locking) so the rest of your post sounded like one as well, at least to me. I apologise for misunderstanding your tone.

@anon49824592

Is the ad hominem really necessary? This is a game, not a sacred text.

I was not attacking you, and your flippancy is both unappreciated and unnecessary.

[anon49824592]

@ladyfire

On the subject of the Wendigo racelocking, there is a very good, very important story reason for that, so I don’t understand whu you disagree with race-locking the Wendigo character?

If I replied to that, we’d be getting into an argument that I and others have rehashed plenty of times in this thread, with varying degrees of hostility. I’m tired of this and I’m willing to let the entire matter drop.

@ladyfire

This is only partially because I’d prefer to play an edgy, hideous demon.

This was a self-deprecating joke, not a criticism. Perhaps I should’ve made that more clear.

@ladyfire

I was not attacking you, and your flippancy is both unappreciated and unnecessary.

Flippancy? That ‘sacred text’ bit wasn’t a comment on the game. My point is that you’ve been sustaining this argument with a ferocity I’ve only ever seen in arguments about religion or politics.

[ladyfire]

@anon49824592

If I replied to that, we’d be getting into an argument that I and others have rehashed plenty of times in this thread, with varying degrees of hostility. Let’s drop the subject, yes?

Fair enough, I suppose.

@anon49824592

Flippancy? That ‘sacred text’ bit wasn’t a comment on the game. My point is that you’ve been sustaining this argument with a ferocity I’ve only ever seen in arguments about religion or politics.

Except that it was? Your exact words were “this is a game, not a sacred text.” Unless you were talking about another game for some reason.

It takes two people to sustain an argument, so I don’t see how you can put that on me. Either way, this is going nowhere, so I’m bowing out.

[Carlos.R]

I really like this artwork. It’s supposed to be a wendigo:

[Lizzy]

@SeventhJackel

I was wondering if we would get a chance to meet other characters auxiliary friends. What I mean for example would be non vampire mc meeting Victorias version of Alfred or non demon mc meeting Chantaleb’s lover.

Oh I would like to have my vampire meet the werewolf Katie, ah she would fall so hard for Katie

[gia]

I like this a lot :~) Your writing style flows so well, and your imagery is lovely as well! I was just wondering whether you still needed testers? It’s cool if not, this thread is quite big and I don’t want to go through the whole thing, aha.

[Frogs]

The vampire part in day 2 when you talk to the goths has a bug.
It shows an error of non existent vampire_fed variable