Gladiator: Road to the Colosseum (Out Now!)

I wonder what @Prof_Chaos and @Terriermon50 would have to say about that. Looks like you’re just playing a zero sum game.

It is true that many of the nobles would favour large “heroic” victories, games and military prowess to capture the support of their countrymen, instead of being overly focused on administration or business. But i can only imagine how shrewd politicians and established power houses would strongarm businesses into funding their campaigns. But I will have to agree with you on the point of business not being the first desire of the elite.

Ahh I would think an MC who survives the arena would retire into cushy luxury far removed from the horrors of his life, indulging in all sorts of pleasures.

Well. Adapting to foreign rule versus serving someone who used to be a street urchin… it might not be as palatable.

Very true. I wonder if you have tried playing the alternate routes?

Touche. This would be a sight to behold wouldn’t it.

Ahhh. I honestly didn’t think of it. But that would be quite a powerful scene. Slaves being chained to oars, being whipped into rowing the ship.

And your MC is wise to think this way. Without knowledge, others could swindle and drive him into ruin without him even knowing until its too late. Only with proper organisation and book keeping will his business even have a chance to prosper.

Actually. To my knowledge, it was not uncommon in the greek society for men to have open gay relationships. So I would imagine that adoption would be a viable option. With regard to your best friend, the conditional would be if she does not find someone else.

Well just look at brutus and cato hahaha. But I can understand fully your MC’s sentiments. But surely if your nemesis’ children come of age, they would pose a threat too, no?

But perhaps some foreign gladiators might find you too “romanised” for their liking, fierce purists who were captured and deeply loyal to their original cause. Haha just throwing out ideas.

Yes definitely more prudent to err on the side of caution. Probably give the player the choice to partake in said groupies with fans (when they get to that stage haha)

It would seem that Greeks would become quite a strong early build character, while gauls might suffer due to the difficulty to improve intellect and literacy without sacrificing other aspects.

You are right about the lanistas and slave masters. Most of the times, slaves were simply tools and aids, to be seen but not heard. I think one of the rules that Master Cato set was to not speak unless spoken to - not uncommon then. Perhaps with Latin one could conspire with the locals… perhaps swing the tides and winds of fortune with a well placed word or two

Sorry to hear about this :confused: it must have been pretty horrible. Sounds like quite a complicated education… American I presume? I always wonder how you guys afford education. Unless its in-state. With tuition fees being in the range of 40-50k a year, the debts accrued would totally outweigh the benefits of education.

Haha sounds like a pretty intense education journey you’ve had. With like 7.5(?) years ontop of 12 years of formal education. Holy shit thats almost 20 years!!!

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He is from the Netherlands.

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On the other hand the Gauls could dominate in the Arena, even without all the trickery and subterfuge and “well placed words or two” my mc would no doubt have to resort to in order to make it out alive.

There are few things more personal to my mc than his revenge and any sons or adopted heirs will I think learn rather quickly that his past in Greece (and the revenge connected to it) is the one subject they should not dare broach.

That depends on a huge number of factors, if the apples didn’t fall far from the tree and they’re mostly just decadent nobles, like their father who cope poorly with their newfound poverty, well my mc wouldn’t have much to worry about from that corner. If not then he will adapt to the situation, if there’s one thing my mc will be forced to excel in it’s adapting.There’s also the chance our dear Kraterous is the sort of head of the family who would sell his own children as educated slaves, before he’ll sell himself. If so the problem can simply be solved by buying the whole family.

That’s a less benign part of ancient Greek culture then it would first appear as, often times that was because there was the notion that men can only form truly valuable relationships of social and intellectual peers with other men. I won’t deny it had fringe benefits for gay guys like me, but to say theirs was a better system then the true equality, including feminism we strive for today would be a huge stretch.

Very true, which is why my mc, despite his origins would value and treasure any education he’d be able to obtain. Though you are right that it would not be the same as the one a noble would get or value as my mc would value practical skills like book-keeping and business more then abstract philosophy.

True enough, it is merely one possibility and my mc wouldn’t begrudge her striking out on her own if she too were to survive to be manumitted. Though it would be a lot harder for a women to truly strike out on her own in ancient Rome. She could certainly become a concubine or even marry (though that would cause at least a minor scandal) one of the wealthy Roman Arena patrons.

The mighty “noble” Kraterous reduced to pulling an oar, yes it would. :smiling_imp:
Of course while my mc is vindictive he’s not actually that cruel, the main thrill of owning his old nemesis, and maybe said nemesis’ children as well would be the simple knowledge they’d be utterly in his power. That trumps any other mental and physical abuse, really. Like I said, if his old nemesis behaves he’d be a decently treated house slave and scrubbing floors and occasionally serving as the entertainment at social gatherings would be the worst to befall him and any of his sons my mc might own.

Not after the horrors of the Arena, the way my mc would cope with them post manumission is to dedicate himself completely to building his business and using it to obtain revenge in order to cope with and keep his PTSD at bay.
I think if he’d try to truly retire he’d quickly find the nightmares to become crippling and he’d be back to his work in no time.
But speaking of retirement, I did notice that you mentioned the lower-class mc still having living parents, his father was a miner for example. So if they still survive by the time we’re manumitted my mc would certainly try to bring them over to live with him. So at least they could live their very last years in luxurious retirement, provided they live long enough to still be alive by then.

No Dutch so community college actually cost me a bit more then University. It’s just University culture was awful to me, while Community College was much more mellow and accepting. In hindsight I may not have made the wisest career moves, but like almost everyone I made the best of what I thought possible at the time.

Well Community I didn’t do full-time until my thesis year, but 20 years total in education all put together, no wait 21, law school took me three years too, does sound about right.

Yep, law school in the US is imho a bit more fun and less time consuming in years then it is over here. Even though i’d probably never have been able to afford it in the USA. Then again with my undiagnosed celiac and being the child of a poor single mother it’s doubtful I’d even have made it to College age in the US. :unamused:

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NetherRealm made my favorite version of Harley in Injustice 2. If you haven’t seen her in the story you should check it out, her fight intros are pretty funny too.

just the beginning of this one

This one is gold

If you just want to see the cinematics with her.

This is why she is the best lol

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@Skelas
Thanks for letting me know!!

@idonotlikeusernames
Yeah that is true. So each race will give some advantages in their own way, but its really up to the player to decide whether to stack a specific stat or go the balanced route.

Well, as in all things, I wish your MC the best of luck. But going at it alone… would the revenge be targetted at his nemesis alone? Or the entire family.

I see. It would depend on how the children turn out but why wait for potential problems to develop when you can simply nip the problem at its bud? By simply taking down the entire family… or is that a little excessive haha

I see. But it is so that the dynamics then were so incredibly different. Very male dominant, patriachal thinking. I’ll probably stray a little from history in this aspect. Aurelia, Horatia and Gisila have the potential to be such strong characters.

I think any form of education, esp a practical one in literacy and arithmatics, would bode well for your MC if he transitions into civilian life. I wonder if many, if any of the gladiators cared more than the immediate future, getting through the next fight, then the next, and the next

Ah yes. It is difficult for ladies to strike out on their own, but of course, when there is a will there is a way. And i suppose if your MC suceeds, she will be a beneficiery as well. Having relations with a wealthy roman patron might work in terms of finances, but i think itll cause an uproar.

Hahaha I have to admit, its a very new perspective for me. To buy the nemesis. Perhaps on the off chance, a potential RO? Haha that would be incredulous

Hmm at least that would definitely beat drinking his money away! I can only imagine the magnitude of PTSD then. Undiagnosed and unrecognised, yet probably much more depressing due to the in your face nature of combat.

How filial. Yes. The parents of the MC might still be alive. But its an exploration that might or might not be pursued. The MC is unlikely to be manumitted too soon, and with time, many things could happen. But of course, it is a pleasant thought.

Oh alright. I see! Don’t we all? With our tertiary education at least. Fair to say most of us dont even know what we want. But wow 21 years thats a really long time! I assume the tuition fees in netherlands more affordable than the us? Regardless, law school is always seen as a highly privileged place to be. In Asia at least!

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Hahaha! Love her character, esp in the movies. What other female characters do you look up to!

Lawyering is only moderately prestigious here and then only if you work at one of the prestigious firms and have gotten your whole education at prestigious places. I very much didn’t.
But it’s a reflection of the different systems, in the US legal education is all over the place, from the ambulance chasers to the prestigious ivy league lawyers. Over here it is sort of a middle ground.
As for Asia all I know is that compared to the US and most of (Western) Europe the Asian countries used to have very few lawyers and in general the smaller the group the more insular and elitist it tends to get. So I’m not surprised Asian countries set comparatively high bars.

More killing? My mc would rather prefer to buy the whole family if at all possible in that case.

Mostly the Nemesis himself, but his direct family, spouse and children would likely be included. They’re useful leverage if nothing else, being able to threaten them whenever he’d prove insufficiently cooperative might prove useful.

Not many did I imagine as the sort of manumission they could obtain pretty much made them ineligible for anything other then life as an instructor for new gladiators, with the luckiest ones getting to live decadently in villa’s attached to the gladiator schools. Historically they tended to be more CEO’s then owners of them, they were paid extravagantly, but not even being able to legally appoint an heir or buy certain property meant they had little else to spend it on but meaningless decadence.
Fortunately it seems like you’re deviating from history there too and allow for something like Ben-Hur manumission for former gladiators.

Well my mc would need to tear down Kraterous’ lavish lifestyle and holdings to the point where his nemesis would seriously have to consider selling himself and his family as educated slaves to pay off any remaining debts in order to avoid a far worse kind of slavery, first.

Such was life then. Still he can probably cope by keeping his mind distracted with business dealings for the most part. One other reason why literacy and numeracy would really help. They’d keep the mind occupied, so he doesn’t have to dwell on the horrors of his Arena life, if nothing else.

Something to keep in mind though. Honestly in-game my mc would know the life expectancy for hard-labourers isn’t all that great and while he will always send a couple of agents to look for them, once he can afford to do so, it’s mostly for his own conscience as he knows the chances of success are slim with regards to finding any of them still alive and relatively well. If one or both of them are, it would be a pleasant surprise, but not something he’d honestly be expecting.

He wouldn’t quite be going at it alone, he may just keep his allies in the dark as to his true motives, and why should they even matter to them, so long as they get to profit of off their cooperation, right?
But yeah, any son(s) or his adopted heir are the last people he’d want involved in it.

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Yeah that sounds just about right. Lawyers, doctors and bankers are just about where most of the top students are going to now, with a growing trend of people going into engineering and computer science due to all the software engineering money. Still lawyers hold quite a reputable position. I guess as long as you are making a decent living, it is good enough. Besides, the euro is relatively highly valued so its quite good compared to most asian currencies hahaha.

Leverage. Its just unfortunate that they are born into the wrong family at the wrong time to feel your MC’s wrath. Thats true too. With the kind of manumission that they were looking at, with the gilted cages and all, there was very little a retired gladiator can do. If you look at the modern sportsmen, I guess you could say that a life of meaningless decadence would definitely appeal to some.

Yeahh. It just makes a lot more gameplay sense. Would an impoverished noble sell himself to slavery though? I wonder how desperate he must be. There are some educated slaves and freedmen who worked for the state as public slaves. Maybe they could stave off the inevitable with this option.

Having something to think about would serve the MC well. Not just with PTSD but with a host of other mental ailments that would befall an idle mind.

Thats true. And Kraterous might have even taken the extra step to make them disappear as well. But that would give you all the more reason to force him to eke out a miserable existence under your watch.

That is true. A web of conspiracy and ulterior motives. I am sure your MC’s time in the arena would earn him plenty of enemies as well. And if he becomes successful and wealthy, the Romans are unlikely to cast a kind eye and might act upon their envy

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I thought the pacing was great- I’m not a big fan of slow-moving stories, I tend to prefer ones that get a move on into the actual story, so this was brilliant :smiley:

I really liked the characters! And your writing style is very engaging. You manage to paint a very vivid picture with few words! :slight_smile: I also liked how you didn’t shy away from detailing the harder and more gruesome parts- it made moving up from the plantation all the more sweeter for my character.

Good luck with it all! I can imagine all the variation for that coding must be pretty extreme :smiley:

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Yes, but it wouldn’t be so nice for my mc, it would be a literal nightmare due to the mental issues in fact.

With the promise of becoming educated slaves and to escape a more severe punishment, quite possibly. As for the public option that was mostly limited to the major Roman cities I believe and even then we might bribe or blackmail the magistrate in charge of that to reject our Nemesis, so he has no choice but to try for a position as a private tutor or steward.

They could but the state officials could still reject applications they thought were dodgy. We’ll just have to persuade them to do so with the Nemesis.

It sure would.
Not saying it would be easy, but at least the challenge would be more fun to my mc then the Arena.

Also true, but a lot of freedmen did manage to succeed in spite of engendering these sentiments.

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There are so many, but I will name a few

Izumi Curtis - Full Metal Alchemist
I haven’t watched brotherhood yet but my friends told me I would like Olivier Armstrong as well

Major Motoko Kusanagi - Ghost in the Shell

Faye Valentine - Cowboy Bebop

Kikyo - Inuyasha

Toph Beifong - Avatar the Last Airbender

Tsunade Senju - Naruto

Unchou Kan-u - Ikkitousen

Margery Daw - Shakugan no Shana

Erza Scarlett - Fairy Tail

Mirajane Strauss - Fairy Tail

Nico Robin - One Piece
This show gives me all the feels

Halibel - Bleach

Yoruichi Shihōin - Bleach

Soifon - Bleach

Samara - Mass Effect

Cassandra Pentaghast - Dragon Age

Flemeth - Dragon Age
Kate Mulgrew’s voice is amazing by the way

Leliana - Dragon Age

Storm - XMen

There is alot more but my list is already getting pretty long lol

Ok last one, probably

Fa Mulan - Mulan

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@Seraphinite
Thank you so much for your kind words! I really do appreciate it :smile: Its good to hear that you liked the characters! Dialogue and romance isn’t exactly my strong suit - prior to this most of my writing was academic hahaha so it’s definitely heartening to hear :smile:

Well, yes and no! After a while you start to figure out how to work within the limitations of ChoiceScript :slight_smile:

@Prof_Chaos

Famous last words hahaha. That’s a super extensive list!! I must admit I definitely didn’t expect so many characters, but that’s awesome! Can’t admit I’ve read/watched a lot of the shows on your list, but safe to say you’re really into anime and manga?

I’m only kinda familiar with Bleach (watched the first few seasons almost 7 years ago until it became too hard to keep up hahaha) and Yoruichi was one of my favourites too! And Fa(?) Mulan - classic Chinese tale, though we call her “Hua Mu Lan” and the Chinese version is quite different from the Disney one (I’ve watched it too) haha. Having served in the army, I can only imagine how incredibly difficult it would have been for a girl to serve alongside the men through battle whilst 1. Carrying her weight 2. Not revealing her gender

@idonotlikeusernames

Still, it would take quite a lot of ego-swallowing to finally give up on the “noble” title. A big shame and loss of honour to the famly name. If I’m not wrong, should the nemesis be sold as a private slave, he/she will have to take on the name of his master. That would be disastrous to any noble.

Haha “persuade” is being used very liberally in this sense. I’ll be very excited to see how your MC fairs post arena :smile: It will be very interesting to see how a intelligent low class MC fairs!

Also, I’ll like to ask a little about gender and orientation. Sorry if I’m being very direct/aloof, I really have almost zero knowledge of these kinds of things and I apologise in advance if this is common sense/offensive. It’s just not a very well communicated concept in my country. :confused: So if I were to discern the various genders and orientations there’s male and female, who can then be straight or homosexual. Are the terms “gay/lesbian” derogatory? Would the term homosexual be better? Or are there other ways to put it. Also, sexual orientation is distinct from gender, meaning a homosexual male would categorize himself as a male (or is it gay male)? And at this point would the person be referred to in male pronouns (he/him/his) or female (she/her/her)? I would assume that transgender would not be represented since there wasn’t gender reassignment surgery back then.

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You might be better served asking your questions about sex and orientation on this thread to get a more diverse picture, but I will answer what I can from my perspective. I’d use gay instead of homosexual, it is the more common term today and what most gay guys in my neck of the woods use when referring to ourselves. Yes, gay men are men, despite the societal efforts of the past to claim we’re not. So gay male is very much male.
There have also always been transgender individuals and while surgical options were far more limited in the past. While the earliest surviving official mention of mastectomy for example dated from the sixth century AD, there’s some speculation that it was known and used as early as ancient Egypt. Trans guys in ancient times could certainly have used other tactics as breast binding. I know less about trans women, but you could certainly ask in one of the other threads around here for input from the trans people here on this forum.

If it should really be necessary we could always make sure that our dear nemesis is accused and tried for a crime. Preferably one he’s actually committed, as Kraterous does not seem to be the most law-abiding of guys, meaning the loss of nearly all his money and possessions might suddenly, finally render himself vulnerable to prosecution.
Needless to say a proper conviction would take the decision out of his hands. If it is really necessary my mc isn’t against manufacturing something on him as a last resort.

Oh, yes, that’s one of the reasons my mc wants him enslaved into his new household. Forced to take on the (Latinized) name of a former street rat, simply delicious. :laughing:

Well if we get the good kind of manumission and have some money from our arena days, plus like all such freedmen the patronage of our former master Roman society would view us as middle-class at the very least. The only thing standing in the way of manumitted gladiators really extending their fame and fortune after they survived their gladiator careers was the rotten type of manumission they historically got. Some of the Roman volunteers, should they survive their terms as gladiators, presumably used their newfound fame and money to build all sorts of legacies.

So in conclusion my mc would post-manumission likely not be viewed as lower-class by Roman society, and how Greek society continues to view him is not something he’d care about anyway.

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I’m an Army veteran too, so I have a lot more respect for her.

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Thanks for the link! I will take a look at the thread and see what i can learn from the ideas there.

Hmm nothing wrong with a little blackmail or a pre determined trial aye? Kraterous would be sure to cross a number of laws, but I am sure almost everyone would have, if you looked hard enough. Just that some people would have been smarter than others, or had the means to hide their dirty laundry much better.

Ooh you are vicious. Its awesome :wink:

Yeah it will definitely hinge on the type of manumission you get, and I’m quite willing to bend reality a little on that aspect. I wonder if there were actual gladiators who managed to establish a name for themselves post arena, would definitely be interesting to read their biographies and stories :slight_smile:

True. By then, Greece would by and large be under Roman control and Greek traditions would matter for very little.

@Prof_Chaos
My respect goes out to you. Its interesting to see the diverse range of people on this forum!

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No records survive that I know of, but the Roman volunteers weren’t slaves, there were even some desperate patricians (or family “black sheep”) among them. While they had to submit to the lanista’s during their gladiatorial career they still weren’t true slaves. So if they survived their stint in the arena one assumes that some of those people, not being slave-gladiators and not being subject to the rotten historical type of manumission enslaved gladiators could attain, were able to do something better or greater with their fame and fortune post-arena other than mindless decadence, as again their best options weren’t limited to becoming prisoners in gilded cages while having to run a gladiator school.

So, again one assumes at least some of the volunteer, auctorati gladiators who survived their stint were able to go on to do greater things later on. As they were not subject to any of the restrictions on manumitted dedectii.

True my mc can be rather vindictive, but wouldn’t you be if you were enslaved and managed to survive the experience?

True, but they probably still mattered more to Greek provincial nobles then they did to the rest of the Greek population.

Again true, but from our brief knowledge of him during our childhood he seems like he would grow into the type of guy who breaks a fair few more of them than most, even in the ancient world.

Well one assumes his vast wealth and status as well as the protection of his influential relations to keep getting away with it. One thing to understand is that formal Roman/Greek trials required the wronged party to prosecute it by themselves and the penalties for “false prosecution” were severe. So not very many, if anyone at all would dare try and pursue their grievances against Kraterous or his family, at least not while they’re rich and influential.

However if my mc succeeds in attacking their wealth and rendering them impoverished there’s no telling what or who would come crawling out of the woodwork and without his vast wealth Kraterous might just become vulnerable enough for them to feel they can succeed in holding him to account, likely without my mc needing to have a direct hand in that part.

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Yeah it’s quite difficult to find very detailed information online, but Roman volunteers would also have a completely different set of circumstance compared to the common criminals and slaves which were thrust into the role. But yes, I will definitely agree with you that success in the arena would definitely have allowed the auctorati to build upon their new wealth and reputation through various means apart from running a gladiator school.

Haha if I were to be put in the position, I’ll simply arrange for a quick knife in the dark. Not really the vengeful type, more of practicality - get my enemies out of the way so that I may do as I please without fear of reprisal. I find planning the downfall and destruction of a single entity or nemesis to be too respectful to my opponent.

Hmm. I’ve read this before too. But that would probably mean there wasn’t much check and balances in those days. Families with wealth and influence could almost take the law into their own hands and do as they please. So unless they were to cross an even more powerful family, or worse, the state, they should be more or less immune to prosecution.

Ah yes. perhaps true. Let others do the dirty work, sit back and enjoy the complete, utter demise of an old nemesis :smile:

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That is my understanding too. However if my mc succeeds in attacking the wealth of Kraterous and his family that would greatly diminish his power and influence, including his power over the law, which in turn might make his other enemies who were previously too weak to challenge him remember some of their old grievances and come out of the woodwork.

Well my mc would still have to do the initial work of weakening Kraterous’ power, wealth and influence and he wants to be the one to buy and of course own him and his family. But it is true that he may not have to lift a finger for the middle part of his revenge plans as once Kraterous’ power base is weakened enough Kraterous’ other enemies may do the rest for him.

And since you’re already deviating a bit from history here our mc’s if they make it to manumission would also have other options then running a gladiator school on behalf of their backers at least sixty miles away from Rome. Really this was historically the only option the most successful manumitted gladiator slaves got.
Provided the same kind of manumission that was historically available to educated and favoured slaves becomes available to the mc our options after the Arena would look more like those of the auctoratii would have had available to them historically then anything else since the manumitted educated slaves did become Roman citizens, if second-class ones. Though again any sons born to them after said manumission would be full Roman citizens by birth.

That is a perfectly valid feeling, however it is not something my mc would be content with, particularly not after surviving the Arena and having killed dozens of men with his own hands, he’d know it would be far to quick and merciful.

My mc does need something to keep his mind occupied, while building a business alone might suffice for that he does owe most of his suffering and perhaps even that of his family (if Kraterous took revenge on them too) to his old nemesis. So he’d want to see his old nemesis suffer too, perhaps not so much physically, as he has, but certainly mentally and through loss of his noble status and enslavement.

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@nauhziy the true nemesis of my noble Gaul is his uncle, I want to go back to the tribe, depose Uncle, sell him and his family to a slave and rule the tribe (with Boadicea or maybe even Aurelia at my side).
Will it be possible to enact vengeance against the MC’s uncle?

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@idonotlikeusernames
I understand your intention. It’ll be interesting to see if I can translate that idea through ChoiceScript. How fickle our loyalties can be, swayed by coin and opportunity.

Its a smart idea, i’ll give you that. And in so doing maybe your MC could lay the foundations of a new powerful dynasty, his adopted children being granted full Roman citizenship and backed by a strong position in wealth and influence.

Well. I was considering making a sequel that would have the MC running a ludus, from the pov of an owner or lanista. True that I am already deviating, esp with the fighting - I will want to have more variety than historically accurate, for flavour and gameplay. What do you think of a Ludus management retirement? Would it still allow you to exact your revenge? I assume, with enough coin and success, it does not change.

I guess there is where my MC would differ from yours. But I can completely understand why your MC would hope to exact such a means of revenge.

@Urban
Yes, Nobles, Merchants and Peasants all end up in the arena due to different reasons, and I hope to include a means of getting back at your enemies towards the end game (most likely post arena?)

Mostly cause the Nobles/Merchants have no reason to spite the gang leader for his/her predicament.

How would you hope to exact your revenge though? Through fire and sword? Or a more diplomatic/business manner such as @idonotlikeusernames