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Go back to the tribe, launch a coup against the chieftain, become the new leader and sell him and his family to the first slave trader passing by.

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It would not occupy my mc’s mind in the slightest and would force him to constantly relive his arena experiences (and the horrors of them), so in one sentence it would be hell! All the coin and success in the world wouldn’t change that. Also running the day to day operation was something “freed” slaves with the wrong kind of manumission did, so it wouldn’t exactly scream success in spite of its possible financial rewards.

At best the right kind of manumission coupled with running a school for gladiators would grant only the first, influence on and in Roman society would remain minimal.

It would change and it probably wouldn’t allow my mc to exact any remotely satisfying revenge on his nemesis. The only kind of revenge the wealth from running a highly successful school for gladiators would probably allow is the hired assassins/knife in the dark way, but that wouldn’t give my mc any sense of closure or fulfillment at all as he wants to take away his former nemesis lavish lifestyle, noble title and eventually freedom. Just having him assassinated would achieve exactly none of that and worse might get his children to come looking in vengeance.

The owners of the gladiator schools were scarcely involved in their day to day operations and manumitted lanista’s were probably the closest thing ancient Rome had to the modern CEO. People who were paid very large amounts of money to run something they didn’t own. Of course, like I said before, what they’d want us to run is the combat/training aspect of it, not the business book-keeping/publicity end of it, meaning again that my mc would have absolutely nothing to occupy his mind with.

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@Urban

It will probably be hard to do so, especially if you were ousted by your uncle in the first place. What would be your alternative if they deny you?

@idonotlikeusernames
Its a pity :confused: a ludus management sequel would be awesome I think, and more historically accurate. But I understand where you are coming from, and the entire discussion has been geared towards a more Roman kind of manumission.

Hmm, it is true that the lanista didnt wield much power or influence. And having to face the horrors of the arena while training and sending men to their deaths would be traumatic, to say the least. Adding to the issue of a vendetta against your nemesis. But now I’m facing a bit of a dilemma in the long term horizon of the story - how do I give players the ability to fulfill their revenge plots without stifling their approach. And secondly, how do I continue the story post manumission/revenge. Or do you think that would be a good point to end it.

In terma of storyline, I think the manumission would be a major climax/end goal, and revenge would be a second climax/end goal, but anything beyond that might be draggy to the reader?

To be honest, my original idea was for your current MC to go through the arena and earn his manumission (first book), which will see him become a lanista in a ludus(second book). He can then choose to either go back to his home or stay with Rome, and players will take charge of his children. His children will then be embroiled in home/rome politics and find a way to seek revenge. (Third book)

But I’m going to relook at the entire story and see how I can alter it to give choice without killing myself too much.

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Help the Romans conquer it and then sell Uncle and his family to slavery.

I think it would be an awesome sequel. It’s not like an ex-gladiator would have a lot of opportunities in Rome.

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It would. However, like I said before, his sons, biological or adopted are the last persons he’d involve in his personal revenge against his nemesis, as being avenged by them would be a mark of his personal shame and impotence that he couldn’t even handle his own business. For better or worse his revenge on his nemesis would die with my mc. Sidenote it could also die with Kraterous himself, should he somehow predecease my mc. Just taking generic revenge on his family wouldn’t be the same either. Though my mc of course wouldn’t piss on them if they were on fire, so to speak. It’s just that without Kraterous himself present they wouldn’t be worth the effort.

Manumitted dedectii historically didn’t have much opportunities post arena, but that was because they didn’t get truly manumitted they just became a different kind of slave in a gilded cage, if they were lucky.
Of course if we get that kind of manumission we couldn’t build any sort of legacy at all for our descendants cause we wouldn’t even be legally competent enough to even designate them as heirs.

This would also rely on us getting the kind of manumission that the educated slaves got historically that made them Roman citizens, second-class ones, but citizens nonetheless.

True, it would. However becoming a Lanista is just becoming a different kind of slave, just one who lives in a gilded cage, if he’s lucky and gets to call himself “free”.
More to the point I guess my mc would rather become an educated slave then a nominally “free” Lanista as having to run the combat training parts of a gladiator school wouldn’t keep him mentally occupied and engaged and would force him to constantly relive his own horrors of the arena. :worried:

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My MC also has unfinished business with her dear uncle. When she becomes free this is the first place she would look to find answers to what befell her family and why she, her friends, and fellow kinsmen were sold into slavery. Something is not right here and it must be resolved. To treat your people like this is unacceptable.

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My Greek pc was bought by Brutus, reported the thief, then sent to the mine because I got the date wrong

Nice work! I was expecting something simplistic with training and fighting a bunch of opponents, but this was a pretty immersive story so far. Have only played the one branch, but I like the idea of getting sold to different masters and seeing different corners of Roman life (wasn’t so interested in a fighting game, but very interested in a historical game set in Ancient Rome!). Also really like the idea of (optional) randomized character creation, just seeing what kind of person I find myself, and that the fact that my pc didn’t speak Latin continued to affect the plot after the first chapter.

EDIT: My arrogant upper-class Egyptian pc was initially sold into the mine. Curious what stat check I failed to get there with 25 leadership, 19 strength, 40 charm, 46 intellect, and Latin fluency? Simply appearing too weak? And now she’s stuck in the mine. Ouch.

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@Urban
But what about the innocent Gauls you would have to kill in the inevitable war. Would you be okay with the fact that they will most likely remember you as a turncoat?

Yes! haha I always wanted to play a gladiator management sim. Like football manager but with swords and sandals.

@idonotlikeusernames
It’s true, I guess there isn’t a point to destroy the house along with its rats, so to speak. Ultimately, I would want to try to incorporate various endings into this, which would be satisfying for different kinds of players

I would think that there are two camps now. One would be the kind who wouldn’t mind staying associated with the arena in the capacity of a lanista, hopefully securing enough wealth and favours with pro-gladiator Romans to incite a certain military action against the home tribe.

The other would be yours, to break out into private business and build up personal wealth and clout, which can then be used to strategically erode your nemesis’ status and wealth, before finally enslaving him and subjecting him to ultimate humiliation.

I feel that both methods are valid, and interesting to pursue!

@Prof_Chaos
Indeed, I feel you! But how would you pursue the matter?

@Alexandra
Thank you! Kind words like these really keep me motivated :smile: Coming from the perspective of a reader who wasn’t so interested in the fighting scenes, how do you feel the fighting scenes were presented?

Ahh yes I’m considering tweaking the stat balances, but I must say that 19 strength is a little low - perhaps the result of a pampered noble life? Especially since the plantation owner looks out for strong slaves.

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Weren’t they OK with my MC’s family being sold to a slaver? Then I’m okay with that.

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That really depends on how the story plays out until that time doesn’t it? A great many things can happen up until this point which then dictates the course of action. Who my MC befriends and who she may be in a relationship with. It is a long road until then but a great many allies can be obtained and as a famous gladiator who’s earned her freedom, she will have great sway over the hearts and minds of the people. One thing is for certain, it might have been better to kill her out right because now they have giving her a great opportunity for power. Some may see their situation as hopeless, but it is only hopeless if you let it be so.

For now she has her sights on the Colosseum, a great many worthy opponents await, potential friends and allies who bonds will be strengthened through blood, sweat, and glorious combat. The experience granting her more strength then she may have obtained staying in her homeland.

After she carves her way into the annals of history and becomes legend, retribution will be hers to obtain. For one who has gained and holds sway over the hearts and minds of the people holds influence over the empire itself. Such short shortsightedness will surely be her uncles undoing.

(as a side note)
I said she was concentrated on what’s in front of her and I’m considering this to be something that qualifies. I’m sure it’s a known fact that gladiators have earned their freedom through the Colosseum. This is an opportunity that is obtainable. At least the opportunity of becoming a gladiator is. The rest will be up to her to win the favor of the empire and it’s people.

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you are a noble and they are peasants. if the chief said that you and your family are traitors then that is that, not much they can do but keep with their life and live another day.

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Then when I come back with a Roman legion and help them conquer the tribe, they better do the same if they want to live.

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I am unsure if this is possible but if you become a free man and you have a merchant back round would you be able to make a trading company or whatever it is called in ancient Rome

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Considering I plan to do so starting from a lower-class background and the author liked the idea, perhaps.

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fantastic my character is good at being a merchant

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Nanu, (despite her intelligence score!) was a bit of an idiot, so maybe it makes sense that she deserved it. Didn’t eat on the ship, then volunteered to fight and lost…

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Oops, didn’t see this earlier! What bugs me are fighting scenes without much context; little emphasis on the reason I’m fighting. If it’s just a tournament I’m fighting to win points or levels or upgrade my gear I lose interest. But with background details on how I became a slave, developing relationships with other characters, hopes for some kind of free life – now the fight adds to the story, and I care about the stakes. I think part of my apprehension comes from seeing a lot of pvp games with a loose ‘gladitor’ storyline that’s really an excuse to make characters fight endlessly. It’s kind of an overused trope in books, too. The story of a slave trying to better themselves, wondering if they might be happy in Rome or someday find their way home, is way more interesting! (Also I love ancient history and recognizing your Latin terms made me very happy :slight_smile: )

As for presentation of the fights themselves, so far I like the balance between text and choices, and the cluster of page breaks when I was on the edge of consciousness really added to the tension. I also liked seeing how my stats were influencing my success, keeping the fight connected to the rest of the story, and then the suspense when they were hidden and I didn’t know if I’d passed (though at the end of a fight it might be nice to know why I won – a post-fight summary of mechanics could be an interesting option…)

My one complaint would be how far back I had to go when I died. I was near the end of the chapter and had to repeat it from the save near the beginning. I’d recommend linking back to the beginning of the combat you died in.

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Right, just played through this as a Gallic noble and it was really fun, though I do have a question!

Do the House of Cato/Brutus in Ariminium have anything to do with more famous individuals bearing the same name in Rome, or did you just snatch some suitably Roman names?

And, since this is 68 BC, will Crassus, Pompey, Caesar, Cicero and co be showing up and/or influence the events of the game or is this an alternate dimension/history?

Also, just a note, since this is 68 BC and we’re thus dealing with Ptolemaic Egypt, noble egyptians would probably be speaking and writing Greek (and likely consider themselves Greek as well, though probably an Egyptian kind of Greek, not completely sure about the latter, though).

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@Urban
I have got to say that there is a hint of merit to what @Logan3000x is saying, but i can understand your sentiments as well.

To lead a Roman legion would require you to earn the trust of the Romans, and it would be tempting to pull a teutoburg-esque ambush on them. But yes, earning the Roman’s trust - to the point where they let you lead a legion would be a long journey.

@Prof_Chaos
Ahahaha very pragmatic of you. It is true that theres still alot of variables and uncertainties in the long journey ahead before acquiring her freedom. I like the fact that she doesn’t shy from combat and hard work, that in itself is highly respectable.

Yes it is definitely attainable, if difficult. But im sure this is not a matter that your MC will be scared of. Besides, winning the hearts of the Romans through bravery in the arena will definitely win her many admirers, although female gladiators are not as well regarded as males. This could lead to soft influence and opportunities and bode very well for her.

@kingzug @idonotlikeusernames
I wont promise anything now, but yes I will definitely want to allow for multiple victory conditions! :slight_smile: and for now, a biz/trading empire is very feasible

@Alexandra
Well, Nanu might have gotten herself into a bit of a pickle, especially in the martial environment, a bit of fisticuffs will be necessary from time to time haha.

Thank you for the really insightful comments! I’m glad that the writing style so far resonates with you, and yes, I hate pointless beat em ups so I will try my best to steer clear of that!

Ahh yes glad that came through to you :slight_smile: was worried it wouldn’t haha. Hmm what do you mean by a post fight summary of mechanics? My consideration is immersion, so I deliberately decided to opt for “you feel more competent” vs “+5 intellect”. But yes, what do you have in mind for that?

I understand the frustration here. I think @Urban and a few others reflected this as well. One reason is that if you selected non-perma death in the intro, you can save whenever you want. And for the PlayerCode, I want player death to feel like it matters, instead of a easy arcade style “one dollar three try” kinda thing.

Really great feedback though :slight_smile: What do you think? Is it too laborious to trudge through the entire chapter again?

@bomsasa
Hello! I must say, amazing observations there, didnt think people would notice. Yes, Cato and Brutus are historical names that do carry weight, but I took them and create my own story. So yes they were inspired but I don’t want it to be fully historical as that would kill the story/gameplay as the reader would know the ending.

I’m still thinking about the time frame. 68BC would mean yes, they would appear but perhaps you would be too young and insignificant to do anything about it. So I am still thinking about the overarching story, or I might simply just focus on the micro perspective of a single gladiator fighting for his/her freedom.

This is a very valid point. I totally didn’t consider this when I wrote the first chapter! Again, I will want to think more about the overarching storyline before I commit. I keep coming up w new ideas esp when you guys give me comments hahaha so its great! Thank you :smile:

Are you a history buff too? You seem quite well versed in the period!

P.S. shoutout to @dankopolo and @Vilrek for liking this thread, your support means so much to me :smile:

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I guess I’m mostly just curious what was going on in the background when I got a hidden stat check! You’re right, it probably would be tedious to see too many details… I think different kinds of gamers like to see what’s going on with the numbers – ‘you feel more competent’ is fine with me, but I’ve got a friend or two who appreciate seeing the math behind the mechanics, and sometimes I’m curious. You could look into making more details visible an option the player can turn on and off.

*if (stat_notify)
Your intellect increases by 5

(I’m doing this in my WIP – you can just put a *choice to turn stat_notify true/false at the bottom of the stat screen.)