Choice of Rebels Part 1 WIP thread

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7881

Ok, I reread the whole beginning of Chapter 2 and found the part about Alaine. Seems clear now that I actually properly read it (sigh), but I still think it would be clearer if the line when talking to her read, “If they’re so willingly law-abiding, kuria, how do they look on…” I clear my throat, “Our current arrangement?”’

Anyway…

Also, when reassigning mules to the sick, Terret grumbles if you reduce the number of mules even if you’re still assigning plenty of mules (e.g. I had 13 mules assigned, but after reducing the number of sick I only needed 11). Maybe he should be a little more grateful? haha

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7882

I haven’t been able to max out traps, but then again, I tend to do a couple things in the first 2-3 weeks to maximize mules, etc. I’m able to get a few people on traps, but I don’t start getting the first full 50 until week 4, and then through week 10.

Even better? If you go to reassign mules, but instead to keep the same number, he acts as if you took some away.

7883

A lot more than used to be possible. Qbout how many kills do you get from all those traps? Also what COM stat do you have with that number of kills, since the text seems to indicate that matters.

7884

With an Int 2/Cha 2 MC (and by extension, Com 0 ) I’m usually able to get between 190-225 kills with my traps, with the average being 200. This mostly affects the supplemental people who accompany the Phalangites, but I figure it is good for knocking off 1/4.

A Com 2 MC actually is more effective for traps. It looks like it doubles it in my playthroughs…so I usually average between 380-440 people, with roughly 400 as the average.

With the current set-up, I actually have the easiest time beating the Phalangites with an Int 2 MC who is also a secret Theurge. Reveal yourself to soon, they Thauamtarchy will send 3 extra Theurges, and they will chew through your people. A secret Theurge can destroy the baggage train with no problem.

And the meta will definitely change once Havenstone changes the public build. I can provide a walkthrough, but I’ve been holding off since it won’t be valid with the final changes.

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7885

Mm, theurges are annoying. I haven’t been able to deal with them directly yet with my 2COM 1INT noble. Haven’t tried the new update at all with my 2INT 1COM helot yet.

7887

I managed to do it yesterday with a CHA2, INT1 helot. Made them “worship” kenon, and then fought the Phalangites, then picked the choice to attack the Theurges and killed two of them. I think one of the secrets is having high morale.

7888

I didn’t plan on doing anything like this until the newest build was done, but if you are curious, here is how a Com 2, Int 1 Noble can get the Phalangites beat.

Note that this does end up with the deaths of Swinherd (Kala/Kalt), and Breden. Tweaking choices here and there might keep Kala alive, especially if you focus on putting more people on trap detail at the start.

Also given some of the random nature of stuff, numbers will vary, and you might have someone discovery your grain train.

Com 2, Int 1 Noble to beat the phalangites guide.

Com 2, Int 1 Noble - This is a min/max build, but you can play around with it. For fighting off the Phalangites. This build will be outdated when Havenstone puts up the last public build.

Just be aware this build will net you Swineherd, not de Firiac as you focusing on combat but no charisma raises Anarchy too much. This playthrough also will be using Breden, then driving him away. This allows you to add a lot of troops (his persuasion) but keep them from being poisoned later in the year.

When Breden asks what you hate.

  1. The division between nations (the final choice), giving a Max bump to Cosmopolitanism
  2. The corruption of the true Faith (you will want to be eclect)

When you arrive in the glen, be sure to teach them Combat Tactics

At the harrowing, choose:
We should try to execute them quickly and cleanly, while we have the upper hand. It’s the only just punishment for their crimes.

It really doesn’t matter, but I like to think I’m more in control of things.

When Breden asks about trust, say:
3. “Let’s just say I’m a damned long way from ruling it out.”
You will use him to recruit people, but then drive him away later.

  1. Choose Zvad as your second in command

  2. Koine as the language

  3. I’d be happy to rob the rich and powerful, but it’s rather more difficult than I’d guessed.

  4. Rations, I usually pick: A healthy diet for all sick outlaws, and a subsistence diet for all healthy ones.
    Note: If a mule run gets caught, you may have to change this.

  5. No – I want to be the one bringing us through the winter, even if it does mean wrangling a dozen different numbers.
    Note: Yes, micromanaging time.

Week 1:

  1. I don’t want to sell any of our weapons or animals.
  2. Buy 0 grain (we’ll be raiding for the other)
  3. Work with local merchants to smuggle goods over the Whendward Pass. (The boost that week for grain will be needed). Don’t go raiding merchants for mules, as it will screw things up royally
  4. Mule management. At this point, I have 0 mules in the sick tens. You should have 11 mules entirely (from the plundering of the market square). Sell 3 of them.
  5. Scouting for nobles to raid: Noble estates. (10 scouts) (Not the merchants.)
  6. Acquire more mules.
    6a. Send scouts out to find Alastors or Ecclesiasts with mules you could steal. (15 scouts)
    6b. Steal mules from yeoman farms. (20 bandits)
  7. Raid the winter grain barns in the lowland farm country. (At least 7 bandits)
    7a. Raid yeoman farms for grain and mules. You should have around 60 bandits; use them all.
  8. Diet - I’m going to eat a healthy diet. It’s vital for the leader to stay well and clear-minded.
  9. I’ll ask Breden. He’s better than I am at calming desperate folk. (Raises spirits. Don’t worry about him gaining influence since he will be gone later).

Week 2:
Buy around 50 bushels of grain. This number will vary, and you can supplement it with hunting.

  1. Buy grain for the yeomen whose stocks we robbed earlier in the winter. - This will require around 45-50 bandits.
  2. Scout for opportunities to raid the institutions of the Hegemony.
    2a. Tax collectors – a mission so sensitive it will require my personal involvement.
    2b. Find a noble who has good insider information – and will talk to me.
    Note: As a noble, I actually like de Galis more. You can do things with the Telone though if you wish.
  3. Try to convince yeomen or merchants to give mules to the cause. (Requires me or Breden) - Send Breden to get 2 more mules.
  4. Whoever is left, have them set traps. Only around 20 people.

Week 3:

When choosing how to lead, pick: By me alone, in consultation with my deputy and anyone else I choose.

Buy around 50 bushels of grain. Alter as needed.
Big thing here is to get the needed mules from a raid you sent people out to scout in Week 1.

  1. Acquire more mules.
    1a. Steal mules from Alastors or Ecclesiasts. (15-30 bandits)
    1b. Raid both. (50 bandits)
    1c. I’ll personally lead the raid. Bring Elery
    1d. Her ideas seems ingenious to me. I base our plan on them.
    1e. “Join us!” (The numbers added are necessary)
    1f. I ask Breden to reassure them. (Once again, we are getting rid of Breden later, so might as well make use of him)

  2. I want to make or change a standing order (e.g. rations, mules, targeting). Sell 2 mules. Should be the last you need for feeding purposes.

  3. Change how we are using mules. You will have around 35/36 mules. Your sick need around 9 or 10. I usually assign 2 above this, to 12 mules…in case you have to run.

  4. Set whatever bandits is left to building traps.

Week 4:
Buy grain as needed. This point will mostly be building traps, and recruiting.

  1. Acquire more mules. Send Breden. You might get 2, or just 1. If you only get 1, don’t bother sending Breden after this. If you get 2, you can send him one more wee.
  2. Build traps. 50 people
  3. Recruit people. Whoever is left. If Breden is available, send him, otheriwse, Elery is fine. If you want a more warlike party, Radmar is a better choice, especially with helot only.

I usually send them to both helots and yeomen.
4. Double check mules, and have a slight excess since Theurges will arrive.

Week 5:
By this point, Radmar will arrive to complain about Breden. Don’t worry, we will take care of that problem.
Buy grain as needed.

  1. 50 people on trap detail.
  2. Double check mules, just in case.
  3. Send people out, with Breden

Week 6:
Buy grain as needed.

  1. Smuggle the goods for Alaina.
  2. 50 poeople on traps.
  3. Recruit with Breden.

Week 7:
No need for a grain run this week.

  1. Sell 1 mule, just to be on the safe side for grain costs.
  2. 50 on trap detail.
  3. Sabotage the Harrowers if you want to raise helot friendliness. However, it isn’t necessary.
  4. Recruit with Breden.

Week 8:
Buy grain as needed.

  1. Rob Architelone. Bring everyone you can to minimize losses.
  2. Deal with the Architelone and guards however you will.
  3. Sell 2 mules for last grain needed. Definitely readjust the number of mules carrying the sick. You will get one final visit from Theurges, so go in excess.
  4. Set 50 people on trap detail.
  5. Recruit with Breden on the rest.
  6. Do not eat the mules. You will be using them to supplement your already existing ones. The Theurges will show up after this.

Week 9:
Buy grain as needed.

  1. 50 people on trap detail
  2. Recruit with Breden

Week 10:
Buy grain as needed.

Now to dispose of Breden.

Choose

  1. Raid noble estates. (30 bandits) Include Radmar if you wish.
    1a. Lead the raid itself.
    1b. I follow close behind.
    1c. Try to hold the roof ledge long enough for more bandits to climb up and join me.
    1d. Deal with the de Merre as you see fit. However, I usually am merciful to them. Also, I don’t usually eat the horses.
    1e. Accept them into our band.

Now you will be meeting with Zvad.
1f. After a long pause, I mutter, “But sometimes we need to rid ourselves of a threat, even before we’re certain.” (Note: Some other option may pop up, but basically choose the one which puts Breden in a bad light).
1g. I nod silently to Zvad.

  1. 50 people on traps
  2. Change how we are using mules. Remove all from the moving of the sick. You will have around 45 mules (give or take). Sell at least 26 of them. The mules from the Architelone help with this, and gives you plenty of cash (or a couple more as necessary).
  3. Recruit with the last batch. Elergy seems to do in a pinch.

Going into Spring: Your morale will be outstanding.

  1. Buy forged weapons. A good chunk of the money you bought will be used here to match up with the number of adults you have.
  2. Have Sybla train you.
  3. Donate around 1500-2000 to helots if you wish. I do, tends to be cheaper than spies later in the year.
  4. Pay for a diakon to visit. This is mostly to bump up religious favor, since your morale is already stellar.
  5. Save your remaining silver.
  6. A party will spring up, so choose: My vision is to free all four provinces, including Wiendrj, from the Thaumatarch’s tyranny.

Ch. 3

  1. Be sure to have Linos declare you Eclect.
  2. Getting rid of Breden means you can’t get the Brecks gang, but a good part of your people won’t be poisoned either.

When Hector strikes, be sure to choose:
3. The infatuation which you’ve never been able to escape, however unlikely a Keriatou-de Eramant marriage alliance.
Note: The only reason you do this is you want to have Calea give you detailed information on the invading forces.
4. First, I try to get a message to cousin Hector in secret. Surely the two of us can stop this before it escalates further.

Go through the various things, and pick:
“Tell me everything you know about Hector’s veneurs and their raids – and then, yes, I’ll owe you.”

At the end, you should be getting the Wiend recruits, and some religious ones for being Eclect.

Ch. 4
Zvad will leave if you decide to stand and fight.

  1. Buy enough weapons for your forces.
  2. Spend 1000 drachem for helots. Spend 1000 drachem for yeoman. This makes them regard you as a helot.
  3. If you want, spend around 5000-6000 and Ecclesiasts believe you have the Angels on the side. You don’t need to hire many spies with this.

In this playthrough, I ended up facing roughly 500 soldiers (496 to be precise). The more people you piss off, the larger that becomes.

My traps took out 420 people.

  1. Attack the supply train, then Theurges.
    4a.I’ve got a mad idea for a trap that just might work. Note: Swineherd dies here.

4b. March through the night

  1. Rally the outlaws before they break.
  2. I run in search of a narrower passage.
  3. I turn and try to put its eyes out.

Eventually choose:
8. “Today, we destroy them!” I order my 171 (this number will vary) surviving followers to prepare for battle.
9. I lead the charge against them.

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7889

Usually I go religious as my primary stat (as you can likely tell by my username) and compassion as my secondary, but I play nationalistic enough to get homelander over 75 percent and get those bonus recruits. My question is, how do the cosmopolitian recruits compare to the 26 self-armed ex-rebels you get for being strongly nationalistic?

7890

As you figured out, depending on what you choose for the beginning, name, etc. can also tilt things one way or the other.

For the current build, I actually think the Cosmopolitan recruits are better. It’s not that I have the hard numbers to prove it, just my own experience.

For one thing, they are ex-Phalangites, so they can help you during the final confrontation with their tactics, etc.

Additionally, when you send individual people off to hunt the smaller hunting parties, Bjel is available, and good at taking out around 55 phalangites (if you’re people are properly armed and numbered). Whereas, Bethune doesn’t have any secondary person under her.

That is why I suggested to @Havenstone he might have Bethune as a party leader in that event…even if not ex-Phalangites, I can certainly see her being able to take out a small group.

Mind you, I did get it to work with Skepticism, Nationalistic, etc. as well. About the only thing I can’t see working (and I’ve tried) is if you are a known Theurge)

7891

Also, seems a bit unfair that only MCs attracted to men can attempt a more peaceful resolution to the Hector situation. How difficult would it be to code in a fourth option for your feelings towards Hector, perhaps something like “The grudging respect I felt for his ability despite his arrogant and demeaning attitude towards everyone he percieved as inferior” Then leads into an option tree mostly similar to the ‘infatuation’ option? That way the gay females and straight males could have an equal chance to do what the gay guys and the bi MCs can with Hector.

I mean, I personally would still probably choose hating him and ambushing his gang most of the time, but for others that don’t want their MC attracted to Hector or males altogether but still want the free intel the option would be there.

7892

Oh nice, I didn’t know that because I’ve never even gotten them. That sounds pretty useful. Later today I’ll try a playthrough where religion and compassion are chosen as usual, but I try to get cosmopolitian over 75. Might be harder than homelander because I know all the little tricks for that but I’ll try anyway :wink:

7893

If playing as a noble, make sure your first name and last name were Karagondized. If you play the bard background, be more interested in songs/stories from out of the country.

When picking languages to speak in the camp, go with Koine. And of course, when talking to Horion, choose the “lead all who would follow me.”

If I go with the other background childhood events, I actually make Cosmopolitan my first choice with Breden, Devout for second, and compassion is shown by actions.

7894

Okay, just tried this and it didn’t work. I got about halfway through winter before I quit. It’s not that it isn’t doable, it’s just that I can’t bring myself to do it. Peryn de Serin the devout patriot is just who I am damnit! I could make a new character entirely, but doing the same basic outline with just one major personality change? Can’t do it.

Perhaps if Havenstone was a crappy writer writing a crappy story then I wouldn’t be so invested into the narrative and I could flaunt about choosing any choice I please, but sadly that is not the case…

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7895

That’s fair enough :slight_smile:

In my case, I do enough beta testing and whatnot, that I’m able to compartmentalize things in my mind. If I’m looking to achieve some specific goal, then no problem.

That said, I know I’ve posted elsewhere, when I make my first character, and assuming I survive, that one becomes my default one…and in a way is sacrosanct to me. That is why, at least for me, my default MC is a Cha 2, Noble who advocates Cosmolitanism and Skepticism (forming the religion of Kenon :wink: ).

7896

For my part I have Peryn de Serin, a nationalistic compassionate and religious Com 2 Int 1 noble and Starn Oakfell the cosmopolitian slightly-ruthless skeptical Int 2 Com 1 helot goete.

The most interesting thing is that although they are polar opposites in many ways, that was not planned to be that way. It just kind of happened as I developed each of their personalities in my mind. Also even with all their differences as to the why there are several things that they both strongly agree on as to the how of the rebellion, such as stopping the harrowing as soon as an opportunity to do so is visible and fighting openly as soon as winter ends.

7897

Okay I think I’ve figured out my preferred canon. My MC is an Helot INT 2 CHA 1. Ruthless and Cosmopolitan. And a self taught theurge. As far religion goes he leans toward the skeptical side but he sees the benefit in appearing as devout. (I.G. Being seen as Eclectic). I plan on leading a massive helot rebellion, and declaring war on the Thaumatarchy and Aritocrascy alike.
My MC doesn’t care who or what will stand in his way he will do whatever is necessary to protect his people.

I’m also desperately hoping @Havenstone allows Cerlota Viore to be romanceable by my male MC :grin:. Two Rebel Theurges with an army of helots at our back talk about a power couple.

7898

I managed to hit upon what appears to be an odd word choice under very specific circumstances.

I was playing the worst I possibly could as a thought exercise and managed to get down to 0 mules and 0 sick people. I was thanked for providing enough mules to cover all the sick people…

Similarly at one point, I had -4 followers. Feels like that should be capped at 0 followers and probably a fail state.

I’ve got some questions about playthroughs though.

  1. How do you defeat the phalangites in direct confrontation?
  2. How do you negotiate with Calea as a helot to end Hector’s raids?
  3. What are some general tips on surviving winter and keeping morale strong?
7899

Not sure about 1 or 2 but for 3 keeping high rations and minimal casualties is enough to make them love you. If you have a high COM stat then leading every combat raid yourself should net you 20 casualties or so if you do every raid once. If you have a lower COM stat then use Radmar and Zvad whenever needed, but they aren’t as good as a COM 2 character so keep combat during winter to a minimum in that case. Abd of course, get mules early to avoid death by theurge. You should be able to avoid and losses to theurges during winter if you manage the mules correctly, part of that means investing a lot of resources into stealing as many as possible.

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7900

You’re forced to attracted to them, they set your sexuality, they oppose some actions and can get more support, and they gave everyone food poisoning.

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7901

I’ve mentioned several things through here, and it depends on the tactic you take. The Phalangites are tough; I find a secret Theurge (Int 2) MC is easiest, followed by a Com 2 MC, and then Cha 2 MC (others may find other ways easier).

  1. With the current build of CoR, I can’t stress enough trying to maximize the people laying traps, especially if you are a Com 2 person. Unless you really piss everyone off, your foes will often have around 500-700 people (Phalangites + Supplemental forces), as well as 5 Theurges. If you are a public Theurge…then I don’t see anyway the MC can win in a direct confrontation.

Why the traps? An Int 2 or Cha 2 person can knock off about 200 people (sometimes more or less), easily 1/3 to 1/4 of the forces against you. A Com 2 person actually doubles this number…(I can often get around 440 people dead).

  1. Try to recruit as many people as you can…however, the best person for recruiting is Breden, unless you have Cha 2. You can offset this somewhat if you have Horion declare you Eclect. Realize having Breden in your group will lead to a poisoning in Ch. 4…but I consider her a challenge to play.

Now, there are also two ways to boost people within the winter. If you raid the de Merre noble house, then their Helots beg to come with you. More mouths to feed, but more fodder for battle.

The same happens if you go raiding mules from Alastors (Or Ecclesiasts, I don’t remember). You come across a mine that you will rob. Bring Elery along to minimize casualties. You then get an option of having the Drudges join you. A Cha 2 MC will get half of them, while everyone else gets 1/3

  1. Make sure there is at least one weapon for each adult. If you go into the woods underarmed…then you might as well not directly face the Phalangites.

  2. Try to get as many spies as possible. If you have good relations with the helots, yeoman (bribing them in Ch. 4 is the best way to do this), even the church, your costs for spies may be minimal.

  3. Cosmopolitan to get the Wiends on your side, Devout (and being Declared Eclect) to get the best combo of troops. It is possible to win being Skeptical and Nationalistic, but the current meta prefers Devout and Cosmo, at least for beating Phalangites (it may not be as good in sequels to the game).

  4. Go to the Brecks, and have Breden there (or be a Cha 2 MC) to get the Brecklanders to fight on your side…and a small gang of them join you in the final showdown.

  5. Don’t raid too many people to often…otherwise, they will raise a lot of additional people to take you down.

I’ve never been able to do this, though if I’m wrong, everyone else feel free to correct me.

I have a small walkthrough up above for a Com 2, Int 1 character to survive the winter, and even thrive. Certain details can change, and there is some randomness which may hit you…but it can be easily adapted. Just realize when @Havenstone puts out the last public build my guide will be useless. We already know the monetary value of mules will be going down, and the player could hunt more in the forest.

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