Maybe bare-bone is a better term.
There is another thread about length for CoG games and what players would prefer.
And games like this or RaV feels they are bare bone to stay within a certain wordcount when they shouldn’t.
There are games in the catalogue that work AMAZINGLY with it ( DragStar! being the latest glorious example) while others don’t.
RaV, Shattered ot Baroque could have benefitted from being longer and more fleshed out.
Writing is hard, hands down, and Edit Hell is a special place in Hell, but if the story needs more, it should be given more.
The thing is we had a great 1st book so we knew the author’s capacity and what we could expect; so the second book was a bit flat compare to the first. If this was the first book from someone we hadn’t read their prior work, we probably wouldn’t be this harsh (though I honestly didn’t think we were being harsh; mostly are constructive inputs). I really like the characters in book 1 and how their personality and characters shone; meanwhile characters in 2nd book aren’t that interesting; I didn’t really care much about Patel or Vesper and only mildly enjoying Kesh interaction when I played as The original Arbiter. As new Arbiter; not so much.
Just curious: Did your view on Patel as a character change from book one to book two?
I am aware you might not have had dealings with him in book one (depending on choices made) but I am wondering how your view of him as a character changed from book one if you did interact with him.
Well my MC did talk with him in one of my playthrough in book 1 but she didn’t put the bug in Mr. Ink as he requested too thus she didn’t have prior interaction with him. When I played again I chose to spend times with the other characters because they seemed more fascinating (and there was Dusk, of course I was focusing on finding him)
I don’t think is rushed or half baked as the editing is good. The format is and barely are errors the looking and paragraphs are well cared. So objectively speaking nothing could say about the production value.
However, I could say It wasn’t certainly what most fans me included were expecting and doesn’t nail the atmospheric tone and action package that first does. Nor dialogue and characters and romance have same deep or meaningful content. It feels copy paste romance not tailored for character you are romance. .Flow is slow and it feels like something is missing or something runs flattened. That will make people perceived that as short. due action is placed all near the end so it feels the game starts just when is turning on.
Epilogue need more exposition of characters.
But i think most error is the save feature the people expect a sequel with a character similar to the one we ended the game. and even worse we play the game immediately from a new play of first to have a game save.
The change in scope, powers flow and goals is so sudden than feels weird and out of character.
Game is not bad by any means good descriptions and good moments. Still opinions would have far more positive as would see it as a different game
This is exactly why we need the demo version while the game is in development…
Compared to the first game…this game is a complete disappointment.
Too harsh?
I guess I didn’t choose the right word . When I said it feel rushed . I didn’t mean it is SHORT .
Though it does feel short . Feeling short doesnt mean it is short .
It just that , when you see the stuff jump at you like the copy past scene…you think ‘‘it feel rushed’’ . Not short , but rushed . Like the person was rushing writing , has a deadline , so much that instead of writing proper scene they just went copy past . It is still a better word then saying ‘it feel lazy’’ .
So yeah , thats what I mean . The 1st game was good , hence the puzzle as to why this one was done this way .
And that’s exactly what I’m saying didn’t happen, and what I was trying to explain in the Rent-a-Vice thread.
The game is 218,000 words long. So it’s not short.
The pitch for Shattered Worlds was approved on November 11, 2017. The game was published March 28, 2019. So the game took 16 months to create. Literally no stage of the writing was rushed. Nothing about the game is “half-baked.”
In fact, it is better for you to call the author lazy–that’s a judgment or an opinion, one I can’t prove or disprove. But you can’t call any of our games rushed or short. I don’t know what else I can say but producing “rushed” work is not what we do. Maybe there’s a language barrier here.
But to respond to the criticisms about the content of the game: that’s what the author wanted to write. And it’s fine not to like it, I don’t take it personally, our customers vote with their dollars.
As an editor perhaps I should have forced (?) the author to write a game with all the previous characters in it. However, her jumping off point for a sequel was “What if all the Superlatives lost their powers at the end of Aetherfall”–which was a pretty common outcome if the device went off. So .
Then…this would still largely be the game the author wanted to write. But we have begun putting Choice of Games titles up as WIPs, so you should participate and offer feedback if you can.
I had never had that outcome lol. I really think the game should had being better received as a Spin off and sell as that with no continuity with same character.
Selling it as Imagine that all has went off how universe of aetherfall has taken the news with us being a new character always .
Player perception is as you know far better than me as a professional subjective. So how present a work is almost as important as content.
My comments is trying to offer a perspective to doing better in future not to critize for critize. Sorry if I offended you
No, no one’s offended me! I’m always happy to receive feedback. I just can’t deal with “short and rushed” because lol I WISH I COULD MAKE MY AUTHORS WRITE FASTER. I wish I could rush a game out the door. It just doesn’t work that way. Anyway, I’ve said all I can about length/depth in the Rent-a-Vice thread.
Seeing how many people perceive the implementation of the old mc and nocs as haphazardly and uncaring, how many feel the story lacks the heart and care of the first game, I don’t think word count and development time are strong counter arguments.
A number of titles in 2018 suffered from the same effect, and I dare say the community wonders how that happened.
There’s always been ups and downs in the catalogue, but 2018 has nearly all its downs share the same issue:
The games, no matter the length or development time, feel bare bone, uncaringly written and unpolished. In other words ‘rushed’.
Should the author have been forced to rewrite? No. But be asked to go over it and polish things
It should have been pushed back if anything.
Looking at everything, I can say this:
A lot of the issues here seem to stem from the old mc taking up the mantle of the arbiter. Thereis a sense of thd arbiter lacking flesh because it’s a compromise between old and new, to the suffering of both.
A lot seems to be not there to allow for the old mc to take the lead. This hurt the game.
I don’t think anyone (or at least only a few) would have minded not being able to continue as the old MC upon loading a game and would have been perfectly happy with the old mc making a cameo appearance.
To make you feel better i understand your frustration. First i show a demo to a friend his works say oh This is TOO SHORT … It is more 90,000 words in 3 chapters . Then defending @JimD in other forums accusing him of Too short and a scam…
I mean goes with the work and process of writing. And in this case i think is the pace and the flow that is slower that first game then exploding near the ending and that could give a sensation subjective of being short of with a too sudden ending also is common perceived as rushed too.
For casuals is difficult difference flowing pace with other factors as length and time in development
So, they aren’t counter arguments to complaints about the content/nature of the game, they’re counter arguments to “rushed.” Our most successful and popular games and our least successful and least popular games receive the exact same editorial process.
And I’d argue otherwise. They suffered from being games that the customers don’t care about or like, but that we wanted to publish. I’d rather stick to speaking about my own games and their development but I’d be remiss if I didn’t acknowledge that for instance: Rent-a-Vice, The Martian Job, and The Road to Canterbury which were all were nominated for a Nebula, and were games that the fans studiously ignored or actively disliked on the forums. (For content reasons, I think, Canterbury; for length and weirdness, Rent-a-Vice; for length and for not being enough of a heist game, The Martian Job.)
I’m sure you can go down the list of releases and why they weren’t more successful, and I’d be glad to listen to it. But you have to see that those games–they got the same treatment and development process that the games you liked received.
I, by the way, need to state that I seriously do not take criticisms of our games personally. So please remove any perceptions about defensiveness.
However, when I look at the most successful releases of 2018 and the least successful ones, I see another story. Genre. Fantasy and supernatural games sell better than anything else. Magics, Stronghold, Werewolves, Silverworld, Baroque, Blood Money, and Tower being in that category and being top of last years charts.
But again: when people say rushed they mean there’s not the same heart and care in it as there could be:
RaV was interesting but felt like mildly fleshed out outlines as if there was no interest in fleshing it out further.
Martian Job went ‘too big’, in lack of a better word: had it gone the Leverage route and had the revolution be something we help with in the cause of the heist while making both exciting it might have done the game well.
Canterbury was very very niche.
Let’s take Hero Unmasked as counterexample:
It’s a game where personally I’d only ask for two tiny tiny tiny things to change (what decides where the twin was, and mendinf the twin’s relationship) because the rest fits together so neatly. It’s not ‘the perfect game’ but it’s one where you can feel a lot if care and heart went into it.
Same with DragStar or TallyHo.
I think, (taking a shot in the dark here) that maybe… just maybe… some authors are overwhelmed by CS if it is their first encounter with it and don’t know what to do with the story (one reason why the developer’s diaries are an awesome thing).
This can cause writer’s block.
The same (again, just speculating based on personal experience) might happen if you try to make an old mc the mc in a story that’s not theirs (as seen here). Juggling that can go awry.
Okay, I admit I still didn’t finish reading the full game, but I feel the need to speak up. I really don’t understand the hate this game is getting. It’s not bad imo actually I enjoy it. It doesn’t even feels worse than it’s prequel just different.
As for the save option. Am I the only one who likes to play it with the previous MC? I think for her all this might be more challenging than for the Arbiter and not just bc she has to quickly learn how to use the artifacts and all that, rather than that I imagine old MC has to feel kinda conflicted here bc of the choices she has to make about staying loyal to the Society and making only Earth’s interests her priority or boardening her views and follow the Conclaves principles. While for the Arbiter I imagine this would be easier since they know more than the old MC about the world and not just Earth I assume they would be less attached to it.
As for the epilogue I didn’t get to that yet so I can’t comment about that yet.
Edit: Looking at the more harsh reviews it almost feels like we are playing a completely different game? Like they almost make it sound like this is the worst game ever…
I was focusing on finding him)
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