HEROES RISE: The hero project review

@SamuraiMantis, it’s a little-known fact that everyone has the instinct to monologue when battle is raging around them. It was a lot worse in pre-modern times; just look at Homer or Ariosto. One of the main functions of modern military training is to get soldiers to resist the evolutionary impulse to deliver badass speeches or plot exposition.

Anyway, as I’ve said, the reality show stuff didn’t wreck my enjoyment, and I’m delighted that many of the people who felt railroaded into dumb decisions by HR1 didn’t mind going along for the ride this time. :slight_smile:

I’m curious about whether another bit of train track now includes a junction. At beta, toward the end of your first chat with The Crush, you had no choice but to “look at The Crush, your jaw clenched. But then you nod, because whether you’re ready to admit it or not, you know exactly what The Crush is talking about.”

To which my reaction was, no no no… I don’t want to admit a thing to The Crush, especially when he seems so clearly to be talking to the camera, not to me. Why on earth would I nod, even if I’m mentally feeling sympathetic? On my first playthrough, it seemed clear that the Victons would benefit from viewers learning to fear Infini Powered heroes, and me in particular. Everything The Crush had been saying played into the Victon agenda – and I had every reason, at that point, to think that he was deliberately doing so, to tar me with the crazy Infini-villain brush.

I’d have liked the chance to play to the camera myself and disagree firmly with the Crush, trying to convince people that Infini Powers weren’t so dangerous after all. But at the very least, I’d have appreciated the choice not to visibly agree with him. How does that bit read to people who have picked up the final version of HR2?

yeah i was trying to lie to cameras in that scene. It was so clearly fake i choose dont agree but i would love destroy that agenda speech. Its like the pills It was so clear a trap That i was negate all Rebelion help IS SO OBVIOUS he is crying Hello i´m a traitor . And The crush the fact he was put there to treat bad infinity powered is SO Clear…

Yes, taking pills on a reality show is never a good idea, sheesh. I did take them a few time,a, though, since I felt that was in character for that run. If you admire Rebellion and are a part of her group, you will naturally trust her, so the thought of betrayed would not cross your mind. The player has the benefit of an outsider perspective, but I suspect many people would have taken the pills in that situation, if only because they would feel the pressure not to disappoint their idol.

The Crash situation was another one I had to resist the urge to metagame. My cynical self alarm bells were going off by the dozens, but I felt my character in that situation, feeling somewhat overwhelmed with their new powers and wishfully thinking the Crash can get a message to their parents, would be willing to believe him, if only because they feel a need to bond with another infinity powers user.
There was a good range of reaction to him, though, that also took into the account your motivation.

I loved having those options - the action is the same, but the reasoning was different. It really added to the RP experience for me, even if they were not always meaningful. As Extra Credits recently discussed, the illusion of choice is a powerful thing.

My characters are always cunning and cynical so my rp dont help Jenny believing she was a betray plot in mind. Rebellion my character dont eat them and feel angry with her old idol and concerned about her act way . Yes illusion of choice its all in a rp playing

Wow, you were ok with ditching Jenny, you lifelong loyal friend who was always there for you in the past…? You are so cold MaraJade. I felt like I had to help her after everything we’ve been through together, even though I was pissed at her for being so certain her investigation is so much more important than my career. She could have been a bit more apologetic about it all - friendship is a grand thing, but she was asking for a lot, and I sometime felt like she was dismissive. Friendship isn’t a vending machine, you do not insert coin to recieve favors.

She is totally a bad person and false if she was so friendly why didnt tell me the truth of she enter in game. My character pick that like a desloyalty and if she hide that, could her hiding a plot against me . Also she always was harsh and grumpy and in the end of game a dick i dont forget you blah blah. I know you save me live two times but you are .
I hate her in this game grumpy old lady

Before I offer my two cents, I want to say that I myself haven’t had the discipline to finish any project that runs to tens of thousands of words, and that people are happy to pay for. So, irrespective of what I’m about to say, I think the heroes series is an achievement. I’m saying what I’m saying in the spirit of constructive criticism, even though I have a habit of being a bit blunt.

That said, I thought there were some pretty serious shortcomings in this game, so e of which you guys have already touched on.

First problem: characters. The story is overpopulated, and the plethora of side characters suck up space that would have been better spent bringing the main players to life. Characters like Summit, the husband and wife hero pair, and Inherit are really just distractions, their contribution to the plot is negligible. But when you add up all the little scenes and sections dealing with minor characters like them, it gets to be quite a large chunk of the story.

Take Lucky, for example. Why is she attracted to the player? What motivates her to be a hero? How does she feel about the Meek, what are her views on sexuality? We don’t know. She’s just sort of there to provide a romantic option.

When love interests like Black Magic and Lucky feel so two dimensional, you don’t have time to waste on Mach Girl’s mother’s cooking or Wintry’s new haircut. They’ve just not important enough to the overall story to merit the attention they’re given.

The game skims over a broad range of characters and relationships but never really explores most of them in enough depth to get the reader invested in these people. This is a shame, as characters like The Crush and GG feel like missed opportunities.

Second problem: scenario. It hardly needs to be said, but this is a superhero game. So why does it feel like I spend more time playing reality show politics and managing my social life than saving people from burning buildings or defeating supervillains?

Choosing which super-clique I want to belong to? Deciding where to cast my vote? Sucking up to judges? Who cares! I want to play a superhero, not Leona Lewis!

Third problem: mechanics. The game explicitly states that to be successful you need to pick a play style and stick to it throughout. There are a couple of problems with this that really undermine Hero Projects credibility as interactive fiction.

If you’re required to stick rigidly to a pre-defined script to be successful, resolving a situation becomes less about finding an interesting solution or roleplaying your character, and more about guessing which option is supposed to be the ‘heroic’ or the ‘pragmatic’ choice. When it’s easy to tell which option you need to pick, the game feels like a railroad, and when it’s not obvious, it just feels like guesswork. In either case it doesn’t work.

Yes, players can play against type if they want to. But it’s not a real choice if you penalise the player every time they choose something that doesn’t fit into the author’s vision of a ‘correct’ way to play a heroic character. CoG is supposed to be all about choice, but there’s surprisingly little of it except for fluff decisions and a few key dilemmas.

Lastly, the themes of the story. Which brings me onto the sensitive part of my review.

I found the author’s handling of issues like bigotry, sexuality and gender to be… Clumsy.

I get that the author wants to address social issues in their game. That’s good, a lot of the best stories incorporate real world problems to make the narrative more grounded and relatable.

However, having your characters take time out from saving the country from megalomaniacal super villains to attend a political debate is jarring. It comes across as a contrived way for the author to make a point about dogma and discrimination.

Likewise, hitting pause on the main plot line, apropos of nothing, so a collection of your characters can get on their soapbox and start arguing with each other about sexuality and gender is about as subtle as a brick to the head.

It’s fine for the authorial voice to come through, but when it’s too obvious it feels like preaching rather than a genuine issue the characters have to contend with.

I bought and enjoyed Heroes Rise (though that had its flaws too), and despite everything I just said I did enjoy Hero Project. There are a lot of fun, novel ideas sloshing around in this series.

But the execution leaves something to be desired. Come the next instalment, I’d like to see deeper characters, more of a focus on actual superhero-ing, better accommodation of player choice, and a much lighter touch when it comes to social commentary.

Sorry for the wall of text.

I completely agree with you about that random political discussion, it really came out of nowhere and felt very artificial. It was interesting, it has important messages, but it felt completely out of place and ridiculously anvillicious - and this is coming from someone that agreed with many of the things brought up in that scene. I shudder to imagine how that scene felt to someone who disagreed - captured audience at its worst.

Plus, I think editorials such as those don’t really achieve anything, as they do not provoke thought or present new perspective, they are merely a script for an argument. Characters giving speeches and arguing is much less powerful than tropes subversions and subtle comparisons, in my opinion.

Having said that, I suppose that is something the author felt very strongly about, and felt compelled to discuss, although I didn’t really see the need for it to be brought up at all, considering those themes very ready subtly present in the game.

I agreed with you about the debate on sexuality. I argued vehemently against it’s inclusion. I absolutely loathed it. I inundated poor Zach with at least two long, extensive emails about how much I disliked that scene during the beta. He said it was important that it was in there. He said he wrote it to be jarring.

He was very eloquent in defending its inclusion and I’ll agree with him. It was important to include that scene, as much as I hated it. Social issues are important in Choice Games. Heroes Rise may have used an anvil to deliver them but Zach felt it was important to do so.

I think a lot of my feedback also said “please more depth to these characters, especially Black Magic and Lucky.” There was a bit more added from the beta. I think it’s the nature of the Choice of Games though that they just can’t get in as much depth. That they do tend to tell long stories with broad, sweeping brush-strokes.

Considerably better than Heroes Rise. I had hoped there’d be more than 1 new romance option though :stuck_out_tongue:

The question is, did it change anyone’s mind? Did it make anyone stop and consider the points raised? As much as I am appalled by some of the sexist and condensing comments sometimes made here, I highly doubt that scene shook someone up, make someone sit up and say ‘my god, I never imagined it was so!’. The more people feel pushed, the harder they push back.

I felt like it was somewhat indulgent, more harmful to its goal than helpful. I deeply support and admire CoG agenda, and especially their persistence in the face of the entitled whining of many of their audience, but I just don’t know if soapboxing would open any hearts to that important message of tolerance.

Still, it is th author prerogative to include whatever he wishes in his work, and I respect that. Maybe that passionate debate shook some people up, after all.

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I think part of my issues with that scene was that I thought that things had already been handled well. There were three prominent gay characters in Heroes Rise. Jenny, The Bear and GG. Then there’s Black Magic, and Lucky, whose sexuality depends on the main character but I read both as bi. There’s Jury, who’s bi. There’s Stageshow who’s trans. There’s an awful lot of GBLTQ inclusion, and the characters are all different and none stereotypes. I liked that.

I didn’t think there was a need to shine a spotlight on any of that. I hated that scene with a great deal of hatey hate hate. I was fair frothing at the mouth. I did speak to another tester though who said he liked it and that it was interesting.

I think part of what it did was to explain why Stageshow and The Bear hated each other.

It is toned down from what it was, I think it’s better than the first version of the scene I saw. Was it more harmful? I’m not sure. Actually I’ll say no, the inclusion of the scene in itself wasn’t harmful at all. It may annoy some people but it’s not causing any harm. And it gives us an avenue to discuss that scene, as well as the role of inclusivity in Heroes Rise.

It’ll get us discussing the issues raised in it, perhaps? Surely that in itself is a good thing.

I just wish that Zach had had a bit more faith in his own writing skills as to not resort to an anvil. I think he had already tackled matters well and that that scene wasn’t needed.

I dont believe so even if i agree with author my reaction was “Oh, crap another soapera debate to waste words i just skip this politic boring speach and agree with the tolerant part.”

I didn’t have an issue with the political debate. It’s purpose was not to change anyone’s mind. It served as a huge clue that the entire competition was rigged, that Rexford was in bed with the Meek, and that you as an infini-powered were about to get set up.

I agree, I absolutely thought the subtle ways gender and sexuality was included was great, and felt like that scene undermined that a little, by making those characters icons instead of people, like you can’t just be gay, you must constantly raise those issues and push against adversity. But in the context of the reality show, that does make a certain amount of sense.

I am not going to discuss those issues at all, for the same reason I think that scene was more harmful to its message. I have a feeling someone is going to jump in and say ‘see, this is the problem with those homosexuals, they make everything about them!’ or something to that affect, and that volatile scene becomes another ‘proof’ of the abuse the straight white male goes through daily.
I rathe lost my faith in power of the internet to open minds. So I doubt any discussion of those topics would be sensitive, or respectful. It very rarely is.

In an unrelated note, I want to say I was very amused to imagine a male Lucky in a skin tight red costume, like some sort of male catwomen. No wonder my character ogled.
(Even though Jenny’s was still sexier, all that leather…)

Black Magic’s the one in the catwoman costume, complete with magical zipper. Most superhero outfits are rather skin tight. It’s part of the genre.

Black Magic, Lucky and Jury never showed up during that scene. Mind you if you’re female, Black Magic can be read as only being attracted to women. But not all of the characters are shown as just being the sum of their sexuality.

I think that Choice of Games are making a difference. There are people who’d never dream of playing a gay or bi character, who end up doing so so they can see all of the game. There’s authors who’d never have dreamed of being that inclusive in their work, who are because it’s expected of choice of games. It does make a difference. And I know one straight white male, who said he liked the scene and the issues it raised, and he hadn’t realised about it before. Surely that’s worth it?

@Jackrabbit that is sexist a men could a sexy leather costume or lycra and dont be gay. Hell i love men in leather and lycra is only reason i watch heroes films hating all comic and stuff

@MaraJade I don’t know about you, but I am certainly not used to men in skin tight outfit. Women in skin tight outfit,on the other hand, I see plenty, both in the media and real life. So that image was funny to me, because it was unexpected. Black Magic is flamboyant enough to pull it off, but it is amusing to think of the boy next door strutting around in tight leather suit.
I honestly find superhero customers rather silly anyway, so I’m probably not a good example. I struggled to keep a straight face through Man of Steel.

@FairyGodFather I wish I had your optimism. Still, I suppose if there’s even one person who was influenced by it, then it was indeed worth it.
(Black Magic magical zipper brought me and my friends much joy, and inspired at least one short comic. A guy like that would have made an 18 years old me uncomfortable on so many levels, not the least of them the ‘he looks better in leather than I do’ level.)

I got Heroes Rise 2 yesterday, unsure of what to expect. I played the first one and really enjoyed it; I feel like the first Heroes Rise was underappreciated. Even so, would Heroes Rise 2 follow the trend of recent flops on CoG?

Absolutely not, in my opinion. I LOVED Heroes Rise 2, to the point where it’s tied with ZE for me as far as best story on the site. I ended up buying a copy of HR2 on both Chrome and my iPhone, for good measure. I really enjoyed Heroes Rise 1, and I thought the sequel was even better.

***SPOILERS***

Mach Girl, early Wintry, The Crush, and Lucky were my most favorite characters in the game. I was really rooting for Mach Girl, and when she was eventually DQ’d, I was upset. “Maybe if I replay that Mission and am so grotesquely incompetent, I can make the rival team be immune to getting kicked and have MG stay around!” I was thinking about stumbling around and making the worst choices possible on purpose. But I did check out the spoilers thread and found she always gets kicked off. Bummer.

I’ll also agree with some other posters that I wish the love interests were a bit more fleshed out. I was hoping to get a lot more character development from Lucky. However, whilst I do wish there was more character development, I disagree that the cast of characters was too large. Ultimately, I think I’d prefer a large cast of characters that aren’t fleshed out enough versus two characters that are really fleshed out and that you hate (Mass Effect 2 vs. Mass Effect 3 for me).

Finally, I’ll agree that the whole “sexual orientation” preaching felt very out of place and – more importantly – was completely uninteresting. When they were all in the producers’ room having their little gender spat, I kept looking for the option for my character to stand up and walk out of the room. Not to shun them, but because I cared so little about what they were talking about that I might as well not have been there.

I loved that Prodigal made a return and did not foresee that, but I wonder, what happens if you kill her at the end of the first HR?

***END OF SPOILERS***

All in all, I was very impressed at how much content HR2 had and how long it was. One of the finest entries on this site, in my opinion.

I thought that Lucky’s outfit was just an example of the usual superhero attire. Take a look at most comics. The superheroes tend to be wearing skintight spandex. It’s just such a huge staple of the genre. I agree that the costumes are silly. At least they didn’t have nipples like that Batman outfit. Although I could see Black Magic deciding that that was a good idea. :slight_smile: