England 1519, in the Court of Henry the VIII - Tudor Intrigue - Ready to begin testing?


#101

I’ll think over the randomness. I make sure there is some sort of catch though if you have a son.


#102

So male mc’s, especially ones who are gay, like almost all of mine inevitably are have basically two options, straight up usurpation or the proto-democratic rebellion of the lower nobility. Wouldn’t the latter just lead to England inevitably becoming another “noble” republic, like my own country, the Netherlands used to be?
To combat the equally bad yet somewhat different excesses and dark-side of such a “noble” Republic England would really need to regulate commerce and monopolies better than we did historically.

Well, since I’ll be playing a male mc (unless you’ve removed the option) I think I’ll need to start carefully laying the groundwork for the “noble” republic. :sweat_smile:


#103

does anyone know how to make peace successful? because i keep getting High Price result. i tried my best to get charm and soft skill high, but it still didn’t work. :grimacing:


#104

I designed it so that you need to have some positive relations with France (45) without having poor relations with Hapsburg ( >39), not just a skillet. Poets -> French Mistress will help boost France. In subsequent decisions, simply don’t offend Catherine/Hapsburg. (Sense + Charm) > 95) is important over “Sensibility”.

I’ll upload an addendum to the Stats soon to explain skillets and outcomes.


#105

thanks! it worked. :smiley:


#106

by the way, if we become a great influence without having romantic relationship later in the game, do other characters, who are close to us, suggest marriage between themselves or their relatives, so that they can benefit from our great influence?

for example, since you talked about how you will make princess Mary have struggle to take the throne, Catherine might foresee it before she dies and suggests marriage between Mary and our younger brother. or Mary herself might suggest the marriage when she struggles to take the throne.

Anne could suggest marriage between Mary or George to make sure we side with her.

Duke of Buckingham might suggest marriage between us or our sister, so that he can return to England by using our influence.

if we become too friendly and popular outside of England, then Henry could suggest marriage between his younger sister Mary, so that we stay loyal to him and England. or he might propose marriage between us or our younger sister.


oh, and can we persuade Henry to let Mary marry Duke Philip? because i seriously want that to happen. :grinning: perhaps it’s easier if we persuade Henry to not marry Anne of Cleves in the first place (getting rid of Henry’s disappoinment and annulment). and tutor Mary to be more English perhaps making her at least less Catholic than Spaniard


#107

talking about Anne of Cleves, after her annulment, if we can somehow marry her or help our brother marry her, then it would certainly benefit us. since she was liked by many people and was very wealthy after the annulment. :smiley:


#108

I like that idea of using multiple marriages, but haven’t thought it all the way through. I want the marriage plots to compliment the religious/political/power conflicts. It think that requires a balance of detail with the religious, legal, and military components of the time. Otherwise, it will feel like the MC is making marriage decisions in a vacuum. My knowledge, time and limited research (mostly wikipedia-surfing) in the period is a constraint on that.

There will be some flexibility to use marriage a deal-maker and your family members as marriage-bait.

I’m thinking a a slow-burn plot-line with tutoring Mary/Fitzroy/Elizabeth/youngest-brother/your-own-child where there’ll be three side missions placed periodically where you craft the upbringing. I like the idea of having happy endings for many of the people that henry VIII ruined historically, including his daughters/wives/courtiers. Princess Mary, marrying Duke Philip, and laying the foundation for a peaceful Europe, by creating a humanist-synthesis of reform and traditional Christianity, all inspired by her tutor the MC), is a fantastically-far-fetched, but fun happy ending for the Princess (who will of course not be known as “bloody”). But that may be a bonus epilogue type of plot.

I like the idea of having a hundred short if-paragraphs for the outcomes of your choices on history as an epilogue.


#109

oh, i love that idea! :smile:


#110

The upcoming part regarding the divorce is not going to be pleasant for my character. She is a staunchly traditional and fervently pious Catholic. As a loyal friend and devoted attendant and confidant of Queen Catherine, she will certainly not enjoy the ordeal.

As it is, my character only really started hearing about Anne Boleyn from the rumors of her affair with the King and that he wanted to marry her, so my character is already predisposed to disliking Anne Boleyn. As the matter progresses, though, my character will probably develop a quietly seething animosity towards Anne Boleyn, blaming her and Henry in equal parts for Catherine’s ill treatment and humiliation, but since it would be suicide to try to express such towards Henry, her only outlet would be passive-aggressive interactions towards Anne Boleyn.

Assuming Anne Boleyn meets her historical fate here without intervention, or something close to it, while my character may not actively plot Boleyn’s downfall when the time comes, she would certainly not lift a finger to help Anne Boleyn either. At the same time, she knows it is not exactly virtuous, but she could not help but feel some satisfaction in the matter, especially considering her lingering bitterness over what will have probably happened to Catherine, even if she herself does intervene to soften the blow so that Catherine and Mary can at least live comfortably.


#111

If we marry the king will we be able to have more then 1 child with the king cause I would prefer having 2 children with him.


#112

How will non player siblings play off of each other?


#113

My noble has pretty much been purchased by France and sees Ireland as a possible and profitable power base outside England and the King’s eye. I usually end up with 60%+ relations with both.

This will likely blow up in his face when he becomes a supporter of Mary’s claim to the throne.


#114

This is excellent! :slightly_smiling_face:


#115

I keep playing as a male, and I cannot figure out how to get the king to divorce Catherine for Anne (I married Mary B.). Why is this?
As a female, I am able to marry the king, by taking similar options.


#116
  1. I started out the male protagonist with a slight advantage in strength and female character in a slight advantage in charm.
  2. I might need to to re-jig that a little though. Thanks for bringing it up.

#117

Interesting is the word that I’d use to describe this.

For history is spot on, and gives the English royalty and era the tone you were looking for. Spot on. But it seems a little impersonal. As if your character was looking on thier decisions from the outside instead of them having any affect on them.

That may just be me, but I don’t connect very well the the players character. They are too withdrawn from the facts and story line that you present. It doesn’t draw me in

But regardless it does draw your interest very well, and makes you want to know how you can affect the future of England. Even if you gotta let go of some pride along the way.


#118

@jry
I figured out how to get the king to divorce Catherine and marry Anne, if the MC is male. During the second set of missions, manage your finances and stay with your mom, attend Oxford, host at your residence (invite Thomas More and Cardinal Wosley), court Mary B. Then pursue your relationship with her, then choose to help him divorce Catherine, then choose to get help from Wosley. The king will divorce Catherine for Anne without breaking with the church. The MC can also court Mary T, and use Cardinal Wosley’s help to get the king to divorce Catherine, and grant permission to marry Mary T.


#119

For the current tone I think it works ok. It’s sort of an observer thing where you can interact to an extent. I’d have to say, I’m not sold on the idea of marrying Anne or the King, it’s going to completely throw the historical context completely off the rails and turn it into pure fantasy, and the impersonal flavor would start working against the story rather than for it. My personal opinion is changing up the story to that extent for the sake of a RO would be detrimental to it rather than improve it. If you wanted to write a story where you could do that, it would almost be better to write it from the perspective of someone like Anne instead of a created MC. Particularly if you look at the historical context, Anne was pretty driven. She had another match that she gave up to persue the king, and her father pushed her pretty hard in that direction as well. It just doesn’t fit that she’d suddenly change her mind to hook up with someone other than the king while he was a potential option.

I’d much rather see history proceed as it was going to (up to the divorce of Catherine/Marriage of Anne at least) and then you can work with or against the major players to get history to proceed as we know it, or to change it up within the historical boundries that were happening during the time period, like working with Catherine to get Mary re-legitamized and first in line, helping Catherine stir up trouble with Rome, or working against that in favour of Anne’s and the King’s reformation agenda etc.

Anyway interesting WIP


#120

Some Thoughts on Balancing Personal, Engaging, Stories, Writing Grand History

Self-Criticism time - Some of the impersonality is intentional, but others not so much and I’m trying to balance that. The first mission I wrote was the tennis match with the King which I think meshed the personal attributes well with court politics… but since then I’ve written increasingly “high-level” types of missions which I know won’t fit everyone’s cup of tea (more people like The Hobbit than the Silmarillion, or the Gospels rather than the Book of Judges). But I want to ere more on historical impact. Play a giant What-if? game is the idea.

The idea is also to create a historical skeleton and layer on personal stories as I develop that. If I do that poorly though, it will feel like the personal elements are just tag-ons to a history lesson.

I also find it very hard to make it personal, while keeping options open. I think having open options is part of the fun. That might be a bit of a hard trade-off.

By the way though… it might get a good deal more impersonal as the next upload is full of 16th century legal disputes. I know no one has been asking for 16th century legal disputes… but maybe people will like it when they give it a try?