Choice of Rebels: Uprising — Lead the revolt against a bloodthirsty empire!

Ah nice, thanks for the replies. This clears my mind in what actions to take on my continous path. I will keep in mind the details on just what to take away. And on that note, here is two other questions I have.

  1. Could there be Nobles that despite my aggresion toward their class and my goal of doing away with it, will support me nonetheless? Say, if a Noble were to willingly give their property and resources for the cause of revolution, I would have no problem with sparing them and welcoming them to the revolution forces.

  2. What about Thurges and their magic? As you said, pain is not neccesary to create powerful blood magic, so perhaps a way could be found to use it without the torture of hallowers. In that case, is it possible to make magic accesible to all clases of society? Could my forces all learn magic?

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Another thing I wonder, now that my group has started a revolution and anarchy is on the rise, will there be other revolutionaries popping up in other places? Once the state has been plunged into enough chaos, I’d assume groups that all want different goals will start popping up everywhere. Making it all the more difficult for the Hegemony to focus on just me.

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Oh dear. :confused:

So much for blood drives.

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You missed Havenstone’s hint.

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Would you be willing to expound on how the harvesting of brains interacts with the self-sacrifices of cutting yourself and bleeding? I noticed in once case the MC could do a kamikaze theurgy spell with there own unspilled blood. Is the cutting also not strictly necessary?

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Maybe not even blood is, strictly speaking, necessary, capture one of the magic-using walking dead and find out, I say. Turning thoughts/brainwaves into magic directly would certainly be an improvement but if that is possible at all it would be a most tightly guarded secret of the undead, who have a brain but not blood to fuel their magic somehow.
In the short term not cutting ourselves when openly using magic might be one way to put a bit of fear into opposing mages to trick them into thinking the mage mc is more powerful or is using Xaos magic and secrets they are not privy to. In short a useful psychological tool.
I do also wonder if it would be possible to drastically increase the output of one mage not with aetherial blood but with something like blood transfusions.

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Thankfully Mara doesn’t know all that because is so gruesome that she would burn all Karagon .like seriously creepy. B

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Somehow I feel like this isn’t the right track. Why would children make more powerful aetherial blood? It can’t be a straight line to a disciplined or intelligent mind given that.

It’s definitely something about the telos of a sentient being or we could use animals. I wonder if an intelligent animal could be used to make poor quality aetherial blood like whale, or chimpanzee more likely since they use primitive tools on occasion?

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It is worth noting the Hallasurq’s apparently harvest from children, their first-born children in particular if I recall correctly.

I thought that Halassurq harvesting children was just a rumor and not a confirmed fact…?

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Well to me the more smoking of the guns is that the Theruge that is hunting the MC and their stragglers if you lose the final battle emphasizes to his troops to capture the children. The implication is that they are the most important for the eventual harrowing of the captives.

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Catching up, first, with some earlier questions:

They know the Archon and the Archon’s family. The Leilatou have been responsible for some much-loathed policies in the slums of Grand Shayard. Anyone who managed to actually kill a Leilatou will be the hero of the town.

Slavers do ply the slums, especially looking for children, and being sold into helotry is one of the things the free urban poor dread and loathe. But because being a helot is supposed to be a telos you’re born to, it would be religiously questionable to suddenly “discover” that thousands of the urban poor were really born helots.

It would also trigger urban unrest on the scale the Hegemony gets cautious about–where they can’t be entirely sure of quelling it with mass Harrowings. Nobody wants to have to inflict a Great Scouring-type Theurgic cataclysm on one of the great cities; too much wealth is tied up there.

And it wouldn’t have been necessary to consider such a policy until fairly recently, when the Hegemony began running low on blood.

Corruption is a double-edged sword, and the larger the scale of the authoritarian regime (like PRC, where executions for corruption remain common), the more it creates vulnerabilities. Your utter kleptocracies are (I think) all relatively low-population countries. Bigger states, to survive at all, have to keep corruption containable. When it starts getting out of control, it both limits the ability of the ruling elite to enforce its will and alienates a wider and wider swathe of the population.

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Interesting, so if the new justice system treats such slavers particularly mercilessly it might lead to a significant boost for the new regime among the urban poor.

Heavy emphasis on the supposed. My mc will love it though just one more corrupt practice the ecclesiasts are allowing to happen under their and their alastor’s noses that again exposes the complete and utter sham of the Karagond caste system. This is an obvious and particularly weak point of it my mc will obviously try to use as a sledgehammer to beat the church, the ecclesiasts and the caste system all at once.

Of their own or ordered down from Aekos that they just executed like the good little quislings they are?
Not that it particularly matters for the rebellion’s own propaganda, but inquiring minds still want to know.

While my mc didn’t personally do the deed, nor did any of his followers to his knowledge it might prove to be advantageous to roll with the Hegemony’s accusations that he did I see.

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Now on towards spoilerville. Like I said four years ago (seriously, that long?):

And here we are at last, early in Game 2–at least, on my laptop. I’m still a ways off having a playable draft to post on Dashingdon, I’m afraid. (Who knew that this would be the year for simultaneously restructuring a $10m-a-year charity, fighting a Supreme Court battle against a billionaire, and organizing the pushback against a flood of poorly thought-through government policies, all at the same time?) Until real life gets boring enough again for me to make more progress on the draft, I’ll just have to pass on occasional lore.

In this case, I’m drawing from the infodump on Theurgy you get from Cerlota de Viore when you meet her in the Xaos-Lands. (Which everyone does, whether or not you actually learned about her from Horion in Game 1.)

Theurgy isn’t based on thoughts or brainwaves. Jumping back again to cryptic things I said a couple of years ago:

To unpack that (and seriously, y’all, here be big fat grimdark spoilers): if you asked most people in the Hegemony, “what does the ‘aetherial’ in aetherial blood mean?” they’d say it’s basically a synonym for Angelic. It doesn’t have any particular meaning other than “holy and weird like the Angels.”

Only a few are aware that it’s not originally a religious term, but alchemical vocabulary that crept partway into popular usage (without laypeople ever quite understanding what they were talking about)…before it became suddenly clear to the relevant alchemical elite that they needed to make sure that no one outside a very limited circle of practitioners ever found out what “aetherial” really meant. It was too late to keep people from saying it, but not too late to mystify the term beyond recognition.

As that small cadre of early alchemists discovered when they began successfully probing the reasons Theurgy worked, human blood has a relatively low aether concentration, which it loses easily by sublimation once the blood leaves the body. A living person using their own living blood makes fairly effective use of its teleomorphic potential. Early alchemists tried and failed to preserve that potency through preventing sublimation. None were able to come up with anything that fixed a meaningful volume of aether, not enough for more than a party-trick level of Theurgy–nothing that could really compete with a dedicated Theurge using their own blood.

Thaumatarch Hera was thought to have been the one who finally cracked that problem, through a carefully guarded refinement process. In fact, while she did discover a new alchemical pathway for reducing sublimation, her truly crucial insights were (1) that other human bodily tissues have a much higher aether concentration than blood (If you go kamikaze and pull down a mountain in Game 1, you’re basically drawing on a whole bunch of that aether, not just the stuff in your bloodstream) and that (2) it would be possible to mask a fairly large-scale process of harvesting those tissues thanks to the Krypteia traditions of helot-hunting in certain city-states.

Thus began the conquest, and the Thaumatarchy.

Those aether-dense tissues (brain, mostly, but the eyes also have enough to be worth harvesting) lose less to sublimation before the aether can be “fixed” through the alchemical process that begins in the Harrower (yielding an inert precursor that can later be refined into usable form). Blood remains a useful natural solvent, contributing a bit to the solution’s potency… and “blood” makes an even more useful, politically tolerable label for the final product.

And yes, the aether concentration in humans does drop off significantly from infancy through puberty before stabilizing in adulthood. The Karagond Theurges pride themselves on their refusal (by and large) to make use of that fact; you’ve got to have something to point to that makes you feel less of a monster at the end of the day. Of course, they can’t overtly explain to the laity just why they’re so proud of eschewing child-murder, but they spare no opportunity to blast the Halassurqs for it. When you meet Erjan in Game 2 Ch 1, you can hear how Halassur justifies the opposite choice, while abhorring the nightmare slave system of the Thaumatarchy.

What does it mean that human beings are the only known sublunary source of the element that makes telos malleable (by analogy to the way the element fire makes many lesser substances malleable)? Well, some–notably Abhuman philosophers and seers, and some long-extinguished Karagond heretics–would suggest that this is strong evidence that humans were wrought by Theoi or Angels with a particular overarching end in mind, as a couple of folks surmised over on the old WiP thread. This is of course rankest heresy, unwhisperable among Karagond Theurges.

It’s also not the only explanation on offer. Nyrish Theurges continue to think any “argument from design” is bollocks, and kenonite or otherwise skeptical MCs will be free to agree.

So there you go. That’s what everyone will learn about halfway through the first chapter of Game 2. :slight_smile: Please do spoiler-tag your reactions…but after all these years of hinting, I’d welcome your thoughts.

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@Havenstone Just out of curiosity, what about harrowing Plektoi or Abhumans? Sublimation is going from solid to gas so it does not seem applicable to blood.

Also on a different note, how did you manage to quote from a locked thread? Can it be done just by typing in the right html?

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Well It really comes as no surprise that my mc inherently dislikes any mentions of “intelligent design” as it cleaves too close to the Hegemonic and Shayardene Xthonic nonsense.
Still the undead remain an enigma that possibly defy this explanation of magic or they have found a way to coax, aether or magic from their dead body parts without cannibalizing them. Or they use an entirely alternate and different system of magic altogether Either way my mc remains very interested in them.

The Nepalese, UK or US governments, or all three of them?

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I’m guessing Leader status has something to do with that. :frowning: Sorry!

The alchemists use “sublimation” to describe the escape of aether because before discovering it as a component of human tissues, they had only previously encountered it in meteoric form…so it’s generally thought of as a solid. (In contrast to how the “quintessence” was envisioned in our world, I know.)

Abhumans are (mostly!) human, and have plenty of aether in their blood and tissues. Plekt-ized animals, on the other hand, do not. Once you’ve sunk Theurgy into creating a Plektos, you’re not getting it back.

The Unquiet Dead will not be covered in the infodump I’m writing now, or indeed any infodumps before Game 4. So I’m afraid you’ll have to wait a while before figuring out how they work.

Diplomacy prevents my answering.

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Oh no, I don’t know if I can resist the temptation of spoilers.

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So it is strictly backroom pushback for now, otherwise you’d presumably be keen to drum up publicity in a public forum like this one.

Maybe with the new limits on big threads @RETowers or somebody from the company should look into extending those privileges to normal members and regulars, maybe? It would sure be a big help with the big series like this one and Cata’s Infinity saga.

Come over to the dark side, we get all kinds of interesting lore tidbits! :smiling_imp:

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@Havenstone Does this mean that we could go mining for meteorites to power wisardry?

Some threads grow quickly enough that they will repeatedly go through multiple batches of 10000 posts so being able to quote from earlier batches would be helpful.

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