Choice of Rebels Part 1 WIP thread

#1145

Just how much blood are we talking about here?

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#1146

Lots.

As will become increasingly apparent when you get out of the Shayard Rim, the Karagond order relies on blood for most of its agriculture, industry, health, and security (both internal and external) – before you even get to Theurgic research and symbolic stuff like the Floating Palace of the Thaumatarch.

Changing to a blood-free economy will lead at best to the severest economic depression the continent has ever known… at worst to famine, plague, and social collapse.

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#1147

Yet Breden claims the old order was able to run some semblance of an economy without blood, so it would seem possible. Is this perhaps something where we could finally see the benefits of a more cosmopolitan attitude, or are the Hallasurqs and Abhumans (and perhaps whatever lurks in the Xaos lands) just as reliant on blood to fuel their economies?
Even so I would never expect any sort of economic transition to be easy, I just hope there’s at least a way to avoid famine and social collapse that won’t require some sort of monarchy.
I at least didn’t get the impression that the part of the empire my character comes from requires blood for anything other than sorcery and powering the wards.

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#1148

Breden is of course reporting things s/he heard from disaffected, nostalgic aristocrats about a time three centuries past.

Even assuming that hearsay to be accurate, the priests will be quick to counter that it was also a time with a much lower population and more frequent famine and plague. The old monarchy was also a time of Shayard fending for itself rather than being an integrated part of the continental system. If the empire breaks up, Shayard has some of the best farmland, so it will do better than some in a post-Theurgic system… but it will nonetheless be a hard shock.

The Abhumans operate at a much more primitive level and with a lower population. Halassur has its own issues and significant blood dependency. There will be no easy ways out.

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#1149

First eliminate extravagant and wasteful expenditures of blood. Second, institute a blood tax where everyone is required to “donate” blood once a month for the good of the nation. Over several decades each citizen will donate many, many times the blood that could be reaped by killing them. Furthermore if someone dies, their blood can be taken as one last contribution to society. This way no living people need to be murdered, and plagues, famines and other terrible disasters can be kept from occurring.

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#1150

Yep. Unfortunately, “blood” isn’t just blood, as will become clear early in Game 2… So an Empire-wide blood tax/donation scheme would have to hit a much higher total volume to accomplish the same effects.

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Choice of Rebels: Uprising — Lead the revolt against a bloodthirsty empire!
Choice of Rebels: Uprising — Lead the revolt against a bloodthirsty empire!
Choice of Rebels: Uprising — Lead the revolt against a bloodthirsty empire!
#1151

@Havenstone so then Bloodmagic would follow the theoretical evil witchcraft principles, where is not only the blood or sacrifice, equally important is the victim´s feeling .pain, rage fear… improve and impact the magic power. ?

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#1152

That’s what some people throughout the empire believe - a reasonable interpretation of the Theurges’ insistence that without the rite of sacrifice, blood has no power. They’re mistaken, however.

New page, new link to the game and the draft world map.

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Choice of Rebels: Uprising — Lead the revolt against a bloodthirsty empire!
#1153

Really interesting, @Havenstone Sadly second part is too far. And by way Mara de Jade my character is charm focused so blood theories are meh for her. I got a question from her so here go
kuria Mara de Jade ask to you:
Why if im so irresistible to this ugly slaves, i cant gain more human shields to my cause? The stupid farmers give me tons of food i got food to fill four quarters."

"Why i cant change food for a smith or hire one. Nope, I´m stuck with 40 slaves, 7 rusty maces and my father… you could consider that a army. Ahh and the only chaste man in the aristocracy… X( "

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#1154

Can someone explain the blood thing? I am wndering can if you can be like the Thurgies, if so how?

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#1155

Personally, i hope that some way down the storyline the player (using theurgy) will find a way to use theurgy without the use of blood! I mean when i saw the Renegade archmage sacrificer, i was thinking to myself “They are really beating down on him, claiming he sacrificed countless to fuel his evil xaos purposes” To me it sounds like propaganda trying to get the common rabble to fear and hate him because he accomplished something other theurges could not/ would break down the current social order requiring helot blood etc etc~~ XD Sincs Sacrificer would be making an appearance i wonder~~~~ If he’d share the secret with the character? :smiley: Oh man. Im just guessing tho but i cant wait to know how the blood crisis would be solved~ :slight_smile:

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#1156

Oops! Hey Havenstone, I found an error, error: line 2722: Invalid indent? Expected an #option here, not *label. It was on the page were you can choose to kiss brenden for the second time.

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#1157

@Havenstone I liked this story a lot. It’s a bit lengthy, but that’s just fine considering I love stories with a bulky word count. This was my first playthrough so I was a bit at a loss with some of the words, but the index came in handy there. Can’t wait to see more.

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#1158

Hmm… while that is all certainly true the empire also seems to be hugely depraved and wasteful when it comes to running just about anything, including the economy. Just from what you’ve mentioned it seems blood usage could be greatly reduced by eliminating the wards (which I assume is where the greatest percentage actually goes to), wasteful prestige projects including, but presumably not limited to, the floating palace, the rest of the blood powered internal security measures and likely even the external ones too. In short it might be possible to eliminate just about everything but agricultural and industrial use in the short term. Just agriculture and the bare minimum of civilian industry might be sustainable with a “blood tax” even if that blood is somehow less efficient.

The only problem that then remains is essentially an ideological one. My character fought the rebellion to establish a new state/government and a new order not to take over the old one and maybe eliminate some of its excesses.
The question then becomes if I, like some other leaders before me would be willing place more value on ideological purity over pragmatism, however if I choose the former then I fear any sort of participatory government will become effectively impossible. Since forming a new sort of participatory government (and NOT having to be head of state or head of government myself) and I’d like to envision both a blood free economy and forming a completely new state/government (social order) as core values of my rebellion so you’re placing me in a real conundrum here @Havenstone.

Sacrificer having discovered a third way would seem like an easy way out however unless his way also has some sort of hidden cost comparable to the Harrower, like maybe an actual Faustian bargain, Dark Sun defiling or something like that.

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#1159

This is going to be a great game. I have a question though. Are you going to be able to destroy the Ecclasits and bring back the older religion from pre-empire Shayard if you play a Skeptical Nationalist? Honeslty, I imagine when I buy this game I am going to do everything in my power to undermine, if not outright destroy, the ecclasiats lol. As such I probably wont play the Demo anymore until it gets released so it is still somewhat of a new suprise/adventure :). Keep up the good work!

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#1160

@idonotlikeusernames

I think the wards are there for a reason. I recall something about “Xaos storms” being mentioned in passing during one of my playthroughs.

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#1161

Kuria Mara: have patience! You’ve doubtless already attracted some cannon fodder to the cause – and you’ve only been rebelling for a single season, and the worst season for camping in the wild at that. Winning more slaves, let alone skilled artisans, takes time.

@ChimeraLord, have you played through with Intellect as your top stat?

@Xhandas, interesting speculations on Sarcifer and blood-free theurgy. Don’t get your hopes too high.

@Drbg, thanks for catching that. @TheDragon, @Lazerith, glad you’re enjoying it!

If you’re a skeptic, you’ll have options that go beyond just restoring old religions.

The Wards are the main “external security” use of blood, and you’ll get to decide whether the Empire/Shayard can do without them. Xaos Storms will indeed have to be a factor in that decision.

And @idnlun, if people are easily able to outwork all the core values of a value-driven rebellion, I’ll consider myself to have failed. Reality always has tradeoffs.

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#1162

No rush but just wondering do you know when it will able to buy cuz can’t wait but if I have to I will wait ( I know it will be long time but want to know if anyone knows how long) :-B :(|) :(( :smiley: :-/

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#1163

I was an amazing thurgy, the priets feared me :)>-

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#1164

Ricepatrick- if I knew, I’d tell you. Sorry I can’t be more helpful… I’m planning to give some serious time to it in May and June, on top of the limited writing time I have for the next two months.

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