Choice of Rebels Part 1 WIP thread


This sounds good.

f. Could it be possible for the MC to pine after Calea?

h. I hope you’ll reveal why they deserted.

j. Then, if the encounted didn’t happen, shouldn’t there be one person less among the newcomers?

I think the Alastor clubs should be counted as arms. If you’re concerned about the balance, 30 arms for hundreds of people is still few.

One more thing: If the MC and Hector had the encounter at the Angelsday ball, the female MC is mentioned to wear “so elaborate a gown and bodice” while the male wears a “doublet and cloak”. I think in a world with centuies of full gender equality the fashion would be less gendered. Since historically greek/byzantine dress was less gendered then western, I’d think noble dress would look more like this:

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Are all of the achievements currently listed achievable at this point in the game.

And if so what noble does the trysting achievement refer to, and when exactly is the MC poisoned?


That may well be true, but I assume the Karagond’s also adopted and assimilated a lot of the fashions of their conquered subjects and the fashion has had a further three centuries to evolve after that. Fashion should probably be more unisex and less gendered compared to our sixteenth century, but then again many things that are now either staples of women’s fashion, high heels billowy shirts or worn almost exclusively by women, such as particularly tall boots, were in fact originally invented for and worn by men first (the phrase “well heeled” used to refer primarily to higher class males, once upon a time). But I do like the idea of male Karagond nobles also having to submit themselves to the scourge of historical and fantasy fashion, the figure enhancing corset.


Well they’re in Shayard, not Karagon, and many Shayardene nobles make it a point not to adopt foreign clothing and customs. And Shayard is loosely based on France, I think? Hence, doublets.


I think Shayard’s more based on Norman England.

Note how the nobles have French names yet the helots have English ones.


So we’ve learned that you can enhance the telos of an object and encourage each of the elements mixed into them toward their telos using your own or atherial blood. We assume atherial blood has to have human blood in it, no other known blood source works.

Clearly human blood is unique and is affecting the telos of objects and elements in objects. Since we know that let’s take a look at the litany we learned Theurgery from with new light.

“I look beyond the ephemeral. I see the nature of things, their reasons for being, the final causes of all their motion. I see that nothing comes into the world without purpose. Fear does not cloud my vision. I see the world without its masks. I see myself without a mirror. I see the ends of all things. And I know. I am the nature behind nature. I am the cause beyond the final cause. I am a Maker of Change.”

“I see the nature of things, their reasons for being, the final causes of all their motion. I see that nothing comes into the world without purpose.” This part screams telos with fresh light. Purpose, cause, reason, synonyms for telos.

“I am the nature behind nature. I am the cause beyond the final cause. I am a Maker of Change.” This is the interesting part, the part that let’s you change and enhance a things telos. However you need blood for it, human blood.

So what makes that blood special though? The Codex says that Xthonos is That Which Is, the Angels are Its emanations, and humans nature’s apex. The litany from the scroll says ‘that nothing comes into the world without purpose’. Xthonos is That Which Is, the Angels are to be like It. But what are we to be?

‘I am the nature behind nature. I am the cause beyond the final cause. I am a Maker of Change.’ That is what we are to be, Makers of Change. It’s how we fuel Theurgery. It’s our Teloi!

And that’s how Theurgery works boys and girls.

Choice of Rebels: Uprising — Lead the revolt against a bloodthirsty empire!

So you are saying the nature of humans it to change the nature of nature? That would seem to deify humans or, if the litany is referring only to those capable of performing Theurgery, at least individuals capable of making a change. Where are the angels and Xthonos is this? They are the givers or assigners of purpose I suppose?


But of course.

[quote=“WulfyK, post:2379, topic:1601”]j. Then, if the encounter didn’t happen, shouldn’t there be one person less among the newcomers?
Nope. Carles isn’t one of the Westriding yeomen who have come to be your followers. His is a separate encounter, which plays out in parallel to the high-nationalism reinforcements. (Maybe I should have it play out with the high-cosmopolitan ones as well, as Carles himself could be plausibly attracted to either).

And good points from you and @Sneaks on the Arms… I’ll make a final call on what counts when I’m writing the relevant bits of Chapter 4 and revise as necessary.

[quote=“WulfyK, post:2379, topic:1601”]I think in a world with centuries of full gender equality the fashion would be less gendered.
I’d been thinking that utilitarian clothes (worn while e.g. riding, fighting, at work) would be the same across sexes, while clothes worn solely as an adornment at fashionable occasions would continue to have gender differentiation. But I’ll consider the Byzantine examples you give – it would be more interesting than taking 16th-century Western Europe as default. As would idnlun’s proposal that we revive the corset as a unisex fashion aid. :slight_smile:

And yes, in terms of linguistic parallels, Shayard’s French-ish nobility preside over both “French” areas (like the Coast and Southriding) and more “Angle” areas (like the Rim and Westriding).

Yes. Try playing a noble who’s in love with cousin Hector.

I will neither confirm nor deny this theory. (: At least until you get more detail in Game 2.


So, scale of one to ten, how mad will aristocrat MC dad be when he finds out his kid is messing around with a helot?


Twelve. I’ve started that scene already… just wait until the end of Ch 3. :wink:


You’re only making the wait harder, man. Don’t be a tease.

I’m becoming suspicious that my MC dated a helot and started a rebellion specifically because it would make her dad angry. Maybe she should have just gotten a tattoo or something.


Of course the male corset would be slightly different in that its primary purpose would be to “redistribute” excess belly mass rather than accentuate an hourglass figure.

Conversely, I wonder how the Helot MC’s father will react if and when the opportunity to make our first advance on Simon/Suzanne arises.


Xthonos is the source of all. All things come from It and all things return to It. They may work toward their Teloi or be Changed beyond recongiontion, but Xthonos is That Which Is. Anything may Change but they will still be a part of That Wich Is.

That Which Is by Its Angels has granted us the power to Change all things, so that we would see the world as it was and is and is to be. So when looking at how all things could be That Which Is will be the end of all things.


Does that mean The Rim and Westriding were conquered by the Coast and Southriding at some point in Shayard’s distant history?


The question was about Diakon Edwin. If the MC didn’t meet him or treated him bad, shouldn’t there be at least one person less among the religious newcomers?

You’ve already answered the one on Carles one before. But I like the idea of him being with the cosmopolitans too.

I thought that the gendered fashion you’ve described (doublet and cloak for the men, gown and bodice for the ladies) would be the old shayardene fashion, as @Sneaks assumed. However, it’s been mentioned that many if not most nobles adopted Karagond customs (speaking Koine, changing names) and this would most likely extend to clothing too. I think that a highly cosmopolitan MC could plausibly prefer Karagond fashion. I hope you’ll make the clothing in the hegemony more diverse by giving the regions distintive styles. @idonotlikeusernames’ proposal on corsets for both genders sounds awesome, I support it! :smile:

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You guys are horrible I’m not even gone one week and you give me one-hundred posts to sort threw you guys are mean also love the update and I wish I was 24 again



To avoid future numbers complexity I propose you count only unnamed followers on the stat screen. Any named followers would be in addition to that number. Conversely their deaths or desertion would also not impact the stat screen number.

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Do you think that a human can change their own telos or those of the entirety of humanity?


On the other hand Karagon is quite decadent and I can imagine that among the wealthy, in the more cosmopolitan and urbanized parts of the Hegemony “fashion” is easily as crazy as it is, in our Paris or Milan. So back to Karagond roots this season, Nyrysh fur appreciation the next and woe betide any noble who doesn’t catch up quickly enough in the cut-throat world of the capital.
Also I still think fashion is one thing that would have evolved considerably in three centuries, even if starting from Byzantine baseline.

Or the opposite to clearly accentuate the rejection of Karagond high-culture. In any case the I don’t think the rags my main, Helot MC wears (out of necessity for the moment, probably deliberately in later games) could even charitably be called “fashion”.


It’s pretty doubtful.

Changing telos is rather hard based on what we have done so far. We haven’t been able to do anything against the grain of telos. Not to mention how making any Change that involves another human becoming more difficult. Levitating Chirex and the Ecclesiast in the Noas both describe having mental pushback to what you’re doing.

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