Choice of Rebels Part 1 WIP thread

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2372

I’ve played through the new chapter many times, and here’s what I have to say on it:

I think you’ve done a great job, @Havenstone. The choices allow a lot of completely different paths which should lead to even more diverse consequences in the sequels. I also love to see much of the stuff discussed here mentioned in the game itself. :blush:

  1. On the new names:
    a. I like XOR as the short name.
    b. I’m neutral on Horion’s new name istead of Platon.
    c. I strongly dislike the change of the game’s subtitle from “Uprising” to “Outlaw”,and I hope you’ll revert this.

  2. Some things I’ve noted in the new chapter that were not mentioned before:
    a. When the noble MC’s father joins the discussion with horion, he mentions that they met 17 years ago during the reign of his great-uncle. Does that mean that Horion met the baby MC too?

b.And has Phrygia succeeded Meletos directly or has there been a short-term Archon between them?

c. Why was the team send to built the new ward composed of phalangites? It seems like a waste of trained soldiers, who are still not able to fight the horrors they met. I seems as if ti was better to send some more expendable people, like helots, hired yeomen or criminals

d. What is right, Pan Szeric or the Pan of Szeric?

e. If Linos proclaims the MC an Eclect, even choosing to not believe it reduces skepticism and the text says “But the power of the idea is too strong to deny”. I think an MC should have the chance be sceptical and cynical enough to not believe it at all and secretly laugh about those stupid idiots buying this, and think something like “that the angles don’t kill me proves they’re powerless”.

f. Since Hector is now romanceable for noble MCs and their story is player’s decision, there should be an option where he pursusades the MC but s/he rejects him. Perhaps even a weird love triangle where he loves the MC who loves Calea.

g. Is Hector now bi or gay/straight depending on the MC’s gender?

h. The two former phalangites leading the Wiends, are they deserters or honorably retired veterans?

i. If the MC recieves reinforcements of yeomen, the number of them remains the same no matter if Carles is among them or not… I think his presence should change the number.

j. If the MC never met Diakon Edwer, is he still among the religious new supporters?

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2373

@OtherGrimm

Alastor clubs are tipped with metal to make good with the head bashing, are they not? That’s a step above large sticks, I would think. That’s why I’m asking the man himself anyway. If they don’t count, I’m wrong, if they do, it’s an error.

@WulfyK

Keeping your head and remaining focused on a task as difficult as building a miles-long wall in a nightmarish hellscape would require pretty formidable discipline. That calls for hardened soldiers, not callow civilians.

2374

Check around post 2182 for an explanation of arms.

2375

“incorporating iron or steel”. Their clubs are explicitly mentioned to be iron-shod. So…

2376

WulfyK–glad you liked it!

No, your father didn’t bring wife and baby to Shayard City with him.

The latter. Phrygia is the third Leilatou archon; Meletos was the first; the second was named loudthroatclearingnoise.

I had Sneaks’ answer more or less in mind. They needed someone who wouldn’t just break and flee back across the Ward (unless a Storm hit).

Both. Like the English word Lord.

More answers later…

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Thanks for pointing that out, I’ll write it in a less confusing way. I didn’t mean that you were convinced despite yourself – there’s flavor text in the rest of the Eclect scene that’s meant to make clear that you’re feigning ecstasy/don’t really believe it etc. I meant the power that the idea will give you is too strong to deny, even though you think the idea is false.

As for the stat shift – I think it’s going to work best to have your three opposed stats primarily reflect how people perceive you. That’ll be affected by what you really believe (a cynic will draw fewer people than a true believer, whether we’re talking religion or nationalism) but not entirely determined by it. In my revision of the earlier chapters, I’ll try to make that clear.

While I have given the player a certain choice of stories when it comes to cousin Hector, they’re fundamentally about different ways the MC can choose to relate to him – it’s not a choice of different Hectors. Hate him or love him, he stays the same character: insecure, brutally competitive, outwardly confident, rarely vulnerable, brash, cruel. I don’t see him pursuing an MC who hadn’t been pining after him for years, or letting himself fall seriously in love with his poor cousin under any circumstances. A love triangle of cousins would be interesting… but neither of your cousins would pursue you passionately enough to make it work.

Hector does not discriminate in his affections. If you choose to fall in love with him, there’s a reference to his “furtive courtships of other young noblemen and women.”

Deserters from the Wiendish home garrison.

Good eye – but alas, Carles will not be staying. The road beckons.

No. His positive encounter with you is what swayed him to sympathize with your rebellion.

2378

Totally valid question, given the metal tip – but so far, I’ve considered Alastor clubs below the threshold, and have only increased arms when you acquire e.g. maces, spears, and swords. The 10 Arms you get at the beginning of Chapter 2 come along with the 41 new followers, i.e. they’re the existing weapons stash of the Whendward bandits.

Edit: and incidentally, I just fixed another bug which was preventing a unique outcome. To find it, insult Calea and then try to bring her back to camp for further discussion.

2379

This sounds good.

f. Could it be possible for the MC to pine after Calea?

h. I hope you’ll reveal why they deserted.

j. Then, if the encounted didn’t happen, shouldn’t there be one person less among the newcomers?

I think the Alastor clubs should be counted as arms. If you’re concerned about the balance, 30 arms for hundreds of people is still few.

One more thing: If the MC and Hector had the encounter at the Angelsday ball, the female MC is mentioned to wear “so elaborate a gown and bodice” while the male wears a “doublet and cloak”. I think in a world with centuies of full gender equality the fashion would be less gendered. Since historically greek/byzantine dress was less gendered then western, I’d think noble dress would look more like this: http://www.medievalwall.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Emperor-Justinian-and-empress-Theodora.jpg

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Are all of the achievements currently listed achievable at this point in the game.

And if so what noble does the trysting achievement refer to, and when exactly is the MC poisoned?

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That may well be true, but I assume the Karagond’s also adopted and assimilated a lot of the fashions of their conquered subjects and the fashion has had a further three centuries to evolve after that. Fashion should probably be more unisex and less gendered compared to our sixteenth century, but then again many things that are now either staples of women’s fashion, high heels billowy shirts or worn almost exclusively by women, such as particularly tall boots, were in fact originally invented for and worn by men first (the phrase “well heeled” used to refer primarily to higher class males, once upon a time). But I do like the idea of male Karagond nobles also having to submit themselves to the scourge of historical and fantasy fashion, the figure enhancing corset.

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Well they’re in Shayard, not Karagon, and many Shayardene nobles make it a point not to adopt foreign clothing and customs. And Shayard is loosely based on France, I think? Hence, doublets.

2383

I think Shayard’s more based on Norman England.

Note how the nobles have French names yet the helots have English ones.

2384

So we’ve learned that you can enhance the telos of an object and encourage each of the elements mixed into them toward their telos using your own or atherial blood. We assume atherial blood has to have human blood in it, no other known blood source works.

Clearly human blood is unique and is affecting the telos of objects and elements in objects. Since we know that let’s take a look at the litany we learned Theurgery from with new light.

“I look beyond the ephemeral. I see the nature of things, their reasons for being, the final causes of all their motion. I see that nothing comes into the world without purpose. Fear does not cloud my vision. I see the world without its masks. I see myself without a mirror. I see the ends of all things. And I know. I am the nature behind nature. I am the cause beyond the final cause. I am a Maker of Change.”

“I see the nature of things, their reasons for being, the final causes of all their motion. I see that nothing comes into the world without purpose.” This part screams telos with fresh light. Purpose, cause, reason, synonyms for telos.

“I am the nature behind nature. I am the cause beyond the final cause. I am a Maker of Change.” This is the interesting part, the part that let’s you change and enhance a things telos. However you need blood for it, human blood.

So what makes that blood special though? The Codex says that Xthonos is That Which Is, the Angels are Its emanations, and humans nature’s apex. The litany from the scroll says ‘that nothing comes into the world without purpose’. Xthonos is That Which Is, the Angels are to be like It. But what are we to be?

‘I am the nature behind nature. I am the cause beyond the final cause. I am a Maker of Change.’ That is what we are to be, Makers of Change. It’s how we fuel Theurgery. It’s our Teloi!

And that’s how Theurgery works boys and girls.

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Choice of Rebels: Uprising — Lead the revolt against a bloodthirsty empire!
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So you are saying the nature of humans it to change the nature of nature? That would seem to deify humans or, if the litany is referring only to those capable of performing Theurgery, at least individuals capable of making a change. Where are the angels and Xthonos is this? They are the givers or assigners of purpose I suppose?

2386

In game 2, male MCs will be given the option of a romance with Calea (she’s straight). I don’t want to write in an always-pined-for-her option, though, because I don’t want her romance to echo Hector’s any more closely than it has to (they’re distinct characters, not a genderflip-in-two-bodies).

But of course.

Nope. Carles isn’t one of the Westriding yeomen who have come to be your followers. His is a separate encounter, which plays out in parallel to the high-nationalism reinforcements. (Maybe I should have it play out with the high-cosmopolitan ones as well, as Carles himself could be plausibly attracted to either).

And good points from you and @Sneaks on the Arms… I’ll make a final call on what counts when I’m writing the relevant bits of Chapter 4 and revise as necessary.

I’d been thinking that utilitarian clothes (worn while e.g. riding, fighting, at work) would be the same across sexes, while clothes worn solely as an adornment at fashionable occasions would continue to have gender differentiation. But I’ll consider the Byzantine examples you give – it would be more interesting than taking 16th-century Western Europe as default. As would idnlun’s proposal that we revive the corset as a unisex fashion aid. :slight_smile:

And yes, in terms of linguistic parallels, Shayard’s French-ish nobility preside over both “French” areas (like the Coast and Southriding) and more “Angle” areas (like the Rim and Westriding).

Yes. Try playing a noble who’s in love with cousin Hector.

I will neither confirm nor deny this theory. (: At least until you get more detail in Game 2.

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So, scale of one to ten, how mad will aristocrat MC dad be when he finds out his kid is messing around with a helot?

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Twelve. I’ve started that scene already… just wait until the end of Ch 3. :wink:

2389

You’re only making the wait harder, man. Don’t be a tease.

I’m becoming suspicious that my MC dated a helot and started a rebellion specifically because it would make her dad angry. Maybe she should have just gotten a tattoo or something.

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2390

Of course the male corset would be slightly different in that its primary purpose would be to “redistribute” excess belly mass rather than accentuate an hourglass figure.

Conversely, I wonder how the Helot MC’s father will react if and when the opportunity to make our first advance on Simon/Suzanne arises.

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Xthonos is the source of all. All things come from It and all things return to It. They may work toward their Teloi or be Changed beyond recongiontion, but Xthonos is That Which Is. Anything may Change but they will still be a part of That Wich Is.

That Which Is by Its Angels has granted us the power to Change all things, so that we would see the world as it was and is and is to be. So when looking at how all things could be That Which Is will be the end of all things.

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