Thank you for finding a way to respond to my questions over on the Politics Thread. I really do appreciate you taking the time to respond and provide references like the Wink article. I thought it was a very interesting read and a coherent philosophy.
Ultimately, I find your thinking on this matter beautiful, but I guess I see it as too beautiful to live. I know you have seen your own fair share of the dark side of humanity, but I look at Ukraine for example and can’t see my way to nonviolence as my default setting.
Personally, I have a deep suspicion of state power and particularly military power. Familiarity breeds contempt perhaps. Like banks, a states very existence creates its own logic for its continued existence. The state’s primary role is to defend me from the predations of other states. There are quite justifiable criticisms of the US state and its military power, but on balance I think we need it to protect us from states like Russia. I wouldn’t want to be Ukrainian without a US military-industrial complex to draw on and it unfortunately must exist because of Russia’s military-industrial complex.
I don’t see how we can mutually deescalate from the state power monster so long as there are people willing to wield it like Putin. I would argue the international order as it currently exists is an attempt at mutual state power restraint, but its limitations are now on display. A failure to compete and dominate the state power race could lead to consequences quite terrible to imagine. So while this may result in snapping to keep the elephants away, I suspect the downside risk of not playing the game are extraordinarily high.
Even on the point of European state transformation into more humane and socialist ideal were only possible by mortgaging state security to the Americans, and by having an inverted demography that made them capital rich and export led. Now that both loans have been called they are struggling mightily against the tide that those choices have created.
I don’t want to hijack your game thread into Politics Thread 2 so I think I’ll leave it there. I really appreciate you sharing your views with me and I always find the references fascinating. I’ll come back perhaps when I’ve given Chenoweth and Wink a fairer shake. You’ve changed my mind before so I practically expect to happen again!
I’m wondering if, possibly, there will be one of the Big Three (aside from the MC) who comes out of Shayard, but which Shayardene faction becomes Shayard’s representative on the Big Three (Laconniers, Leaguers, Calea, Loyalists, or something else) is determined by the Whendward Band’s actions.
That’s another reason that Alya would consider Avezia to be a potential capital for the post-Aekos Hegemony; mollifying both Shayardene and Erreziano homelanders.
This is some poor timing on my end, because I will come back to the conversation on revolution and nonviolent resistance another day, but in response to some conversation off-site, I’ve been working on a full achievement guide for Stormwright so far, and I can now announce that it’s done.
Note that there’s a lot of detail to uncover in this chapter and getting every achievement still leaves you far from seeing everything there is to see in the Xaos-lands. But they are a solid foundation for learning the game:
If I haven’t listed or commented on a choice, you can assume that it will not impact your ability to get the achievement.
Still On Your Feet
Still On Your Feet:
Requirements: None.
Recommended (but not required): 2 COM or 2 INT
Any stat build can get this achievement, and there are multiple routes for doing so. The ones listed below are consistent and relatively optimal for staying healthy.
(Also, if you bring Ciels, follow their advice while escaping the Xaos-storm)
2 COM
Credit to @HughMyronBrough for coming up with this pathing on pretty much Day One:
(The choice to “Run single-mindedly for safety” or help one of your companions doesn’t matter for the achievement. Choose whoever you want to be more healthy)
Run until we have a ledge beneath us.
Scramble down the next side gully we come to.
I look for a stone to throw at the beast.
I take us up this side of the cliff.
I stay as still as I can. Who knows what else is up there?
Congratulations, once you’ve reached the Spores, you’re safe. Well, your character is in terrible, Lovecraftian danger. But once you’re there, there’s nothing you can do to mess up this achievement.
2 INT
Counterintuitively, I recommend not bothering with this achievement with 2 INT. This is because the achievement requires you to be conscious, which means you can only use Theurgy once during this section. Here’s one path, though:
(First choice doesn’t matter)
Run until we have a ledge beneath us.
Tie off our rope and head down the ravine, now. (Who needs that rope anyway? The rest of the run won’t)
Let’s head back upstream and cross by the stone bridge.
I snuff it out using Theurgy.
I start running forward along the cliff ledge.
Do not use Theurgy with the spores. I mean, you can, and it’ll save you a point of Health (letting you potentially stay at full health). But you won’t get the achievement, because you lose consciousness.
2 CHA
(First choice doesn’t matter)
We have to get down here and now. The Storm is too close.
I gesture to ${gamgee}.(If it’s just you and Yed, any choice works fine, but this is one of the unique 2 CHA successes)
Stay on the south side.
(Your choices with the Xaos-plant doesn’t matter, you can’t succeed as 2 CHA and will always lose some Health, but also will always progress)
(For the fireball, pick anything but leaping to safety yourself, since you’re protected)
This is definitely the most scuffed run, but 2 CHA has a really hard time with this section. The approach I listed sort of spreads the love (pain) around the party, you’re all pretty beat-up but you get through it.
You could also, admittedly, just sacrifice Yed’s wellbeing. Follow the 2 COM guide, but instead of throwing a stone at the Xaos-spider, choose “I stop descending and edge toward the main ravine, trusting Yed to follow.” Either Yed will fall, at which point you choose to go down and save him, or Kal/de Firiac will leap down and kill the Xaos-spider. Either way, then continue with the 2 COM path as usual.
Moral of the story: the Xaos-spider path is remarkably safe.
Healer of Xaos
Healer of Xaos:
Requirements: 2 INT; almost lost a limb during a battle with Hector Keriatou; village route.
Recommended (but not required): Bring Ciels. They’ll make getting through the Xaos-storm easier, and synergise well with the village route.
In the Xaos-storm at the beginning, you need to try to attack a Xaos-beast with Theurgy so that you notice what Xaos does to living beings.
Encountering Xaos-beasts
This can be done either with the Xaos-spider or the Lovecraftian CharizardDragon fire-lizard. The easiest way to encounter one of them is to:
Run until we have a ledge beneath us.
(a) Xaos-spider (best path with Ciels)
Scramble down the next side gully we come to.
I attack the creature with Theurgy.
(with Ciels) Ciels knows the wild better than any of us.
(b) Fire-lizard
Run faster. We’ll reach the ledge before the Storm catches us.
I’ll get ready to fight. (The other two options work too, just make sure to use Theurgy directly on the fire-lizard)
I levitate it off the cliff / I quench its fire with ${wisardry}.
Don’t worry if you fall unconscious; that actually earns you the trust of the villagers. When introducing yourself to the villagers, you can pick whatever you want, but being honest from the start builds the most trust in the long run. Do not say “Cousin of yours?”
I wield Changes against the swarm, even though it means exposing myself to the hunters as a Theurge.
(if lying about your identity) “They cry Goety to scare folk,” I retort skeptically.
“We’d be grateful to share your shelter, if you’ll have us.” We’ll need rest before any venture onto the plains.
After deciding on your plan at the village, you’ll reach the main hub of village activities.
I ask Veorn if there’s anything I can do to help the village.
…helping with the sick.
I learned the hard way how to heal using ${wisardry}. I use that to help.
My throat goes dry, and it’s several seconds before I manage: “I could try. Tomorrow.”
And congratulations, you’re now Healer of Xaos. I highly recommend immediately following up with the next achievement…
Hospitality Proven
Hospitality Proven:
Requirements: Village route.
Recommended (but not required): Ciels; 2 CHA or Healer of Xaos
Not recommended: 2 COM without Ciels. It’s possible, but will hurt.
To gain the villagers’ trust, it’s generally better to be upfront about your identity from the beginning, and to not try to hide it if called out.
2 INT
If you follow the Healer of Xaos build from above, you will have more than enough trust with the village to smoothly sail into getting this achievement. If you aren’t able to pursue that, then still go to the sick-tents, but instead:
I try to use what I’ve learned of herblore to help them.
I’ll secretly try to enhance its healing properties using ${wisardry}.
2 CHA
Follow the equivalent guide for Still On Your Feet to safely get through the Xaos-storm. Be sure to ask:
“Will you take us back to your village?” I want nothing more than a chance to recover in relative safety.
Because if you don’t have de Firiac, you won’t be able to save the hunters from the crabs. Join the village, and then:
I ask Veorn if there’s anything I can do to help the village.
…averting a flood.
I organize a squad to go dismantle it.
Visiting the sick tents and comforting the sick is also an option, but builds less trust and risks your health.
(Optional) I ask Torane to take me up to a viewpoint and discuss where we might travel next.
This will make sure you can escape the reivers at the end, but this isn’t required for the achievement.
After the wildstorm passes, the village celebrates, and you can go down to celebrate to build a little trust.
Dealing with Lyssen
When Lyssen tries to proposition the MC, you can safely reject her. You could also just not save her life during the crab fight, but then you’re missing an opportunity to build trust with the villagers.
However, if you reject Lyssen to try to sleep with your companion, either have at least 1 CHA or be prepared to make your companion the hero of the reiver attack. It would better to tell your companion “There’s only one way I want to celebrate tonight” from the start and skip Lyssen altogether…
A Healer of Xaos or a 2 CHA character who wants to spend the night (wholesomely) with de Firiac can afford to anger Lyssen here as long as you’ve already revealed your identities. A Healer of Xaos with Ciels can afford to both anger Lyssen and conceal their identities to the end.
For the reiver attack, play to your strengths, use your companions well. I recommend making your companion the key to the plan to play it safe, and not fighting more than you have to.
When Lyssen starts throwing accusations around, she’ll accuse Gredal instead of you or your companion (this is why we had to tread carefully around her feelings earlier).
I just stay silent. We don’t know them, and this is no business of ours.
This is the easy road. However, someone with huge margins, like a Healer of Xaos, can afford to defend Gredal (or yourself) here as a bonus, ejecting Lyssen from the village instead.
Then the reivers will come back for more.
(2 CHA) I make an impassioned appeal to the villagers to protect us.
(False identity) “This is why we keep our secrets to ourselves,” I breathe to Torane. “To protect you.”
(If neither of those apply, then staying silent is fine too)
The elders will protect you, and then send you on your way with one extra achievement.
Addendum: 2 COM without Ciels
It takes extremely counterintuitive play to do this, but it is possible. The crux of it is intentionally failing the Xaos-storm at the beginning to build trust early on: that’s how thin the margins are.
Failing the Xaos-storm
Here’s one way of utterly destroying your Health:
I stay close to Yed / I veer toward ${gamgee}
If you’ve brought Kal or de Firiac, you need to take some extra steps to make sure they don’t get any funny ideas about protecting you from danger.
Kal or de Firiac
We have to get down here and now. The Storm is too close.
I swing my legs over the edge.
Cross back to the north cliff face.
This will bring you to the Xaos-spider encounter, where we’ll merge back onto the main path.
Run until we have a ledge beneath us.
Scramble down the next side gully we come to.
[Xaos-spider encounter]
I try to tug Yed higher, out of reach.
Let’s swim downriver.
The amount of trust the village has in us will be tracked like so [12]
We mean to go by our own names and tell the truth of the rebellion that brought us here, hoping to find new allies. [10]
“Give me a pike.” [13]
“We’d be grateful to share your shelter, if you’ll have us.” We’ll need rest before any venture onto the plains.
I ask Veorn if there’s anything I can do to help the village.
…averting a flood.
I organize a squad to go dismantle it. [18]
Quirene is a farmer. I ask her to show me the settlement’s fields. [19]
(Stay in the village)
(Join the celebration) [20]
(Either decline Lyssen or sleep with her, but don’t try to sleep with your companion)
“I’ll review the village defenses with Torane and Veorn. We should be able to hold out against them.”
The rearguard, in case some unseen reiver force finds an unexpected way into the village.
I use my sling to knock them off the pillar.
I just stay silent. We don’t know them, and this is no business of ours.
And that’s the last hurdle. Once the reivers return, you’ll barely scrape by with the achievement.
Unseating the Chief
Unseating the Chief:
Requirements:* Nomad route; 2 COM or (2 INT, no companion besides Yed, without using Theurgy with the nomads)
Recommended (but not required): 1 CHA
Follow the Still On Your Feet guide for 2 COM to make it safely through the Xaos-storm, then after everything, choose to go the plains instead of the village.
These scouts haven’t treated us as Xaos-reivers would have. We should trust them.
Both the hunt (We attack the giant catamounts) and hand-to-hand combat can get 2 COM into the Whiskered Hawk. Afterwards:
I speak with Heled, the tribe’s camel handler, about these amazing reatures.
After speaking with Heled, it doesn’t matter who you talk to. I recommend either Goksed for an extra scene later or Jyrrek for the irony. With 1 CHA, you don’t even technically need to learn from Heled, but it’s useful anyway. Stay with the tribe.
During the Xaos-storm:
I want to take a beast from Jyrrek. The phylarch needs to be humbled.
(1 CHA) I pretend to attack her, but my real aim is to get Jyrrek when he tries to save her.
(0 CHA) Old Kylik is right next to me. I hurl her off the tebe.
And you’re done. You can go pick up your companions (and maybe Goksed) and you’re ready to join the camel economy.
I highly recommend pairing this achievement with On Your Feet and Fighting, as a 2 COM, 1 CHA build is good for both achievements.
2 INT
You can’t bring anyone but Yed to the Xaos-lands, and preferably have the Carles the Jongler prologue. See the achievement below (Saving the Storm-Touched) for how to pass the tales and songs test as 2 INT.
When the Xaos-storm comes, try to take Jyrrek’s camel. The reason why you should use tales and songs is because it hides your Theurgy until this moment. Once you’re in the air, select:
“Ride slow when we’re back on the ground,” I urge him. “Close to my friend. Guide him to safety.”
Saving the Storm-Touched
Saving the Storm-Touched:
Requirements: Nomad path
Recommended (but not required): 2 CHA
Join the nomads. An easy method for doing that as 2 COM is covered under Unseating the Chief. 2 CHA and 2 INT with Breden (or Carles prologue) both do well at the tales and songs challenge, but be sure to tell them that:
“If any reivers tried to eat us, I’d feed them all their own kidneys.”
Tales and song challenge
I take an enthusiastic swig.
CHA stories:
I share a ridiculous tale.
I share a mocking tale of fools.
I retell one of the nomads’ tales to them from a different perspective.
INT stories:
I share a grim tale.
I try a tale of our rebellion—but told in the nomads’ own style.
Breden and a Carles the Jongler prologue each also provide one universally applicable story. At the end, pick:
“Well, there’s no topping that,” I say ruefully, inclining my head to Kylik.
(2 INT characters can also succeed by aggressively using Theurgy in hand-to-hand combat or the hunt. Kal and de Firiac are good for hand-to-hand combat; Ciels and de Firiac are good for the hunt. If you do the hunt without 2 CHA, do not mock Goksed)
Once you’ve joined the nomads:
I accompany Nendju and his scouts.
(Not 2 CHA) I spend time with some of the lower-status nomads.
Then, during the Xaos-storm:
I try to mobilize everyone who can’t grab a mount and will need to run.
And with that, you’ve saved everyone.
On Your Feet and Fighting
On Your Feet and Fighting:
Requirements: 2 COM; don’t travel with Cerlota; not very injured (Health >= 7)
Recommended (but not required): 1 CHA; and/or a spear (see below)
Spears
You can get weapons as a reward for doing well in the Xaos-lands. Leaving the village or Whiskered Hawk on good terms gets you spears. Killing the reivers who come after you if you leave the village or nomads early nets you spears.
You can also capture spears during the Blood Raven fight if you don’t have them already, but at the cost of Yed and your companion’s health, which is why I have them listed as optional.
Follow the Still On Your Feet guide for safely getting through the Xaos-storm safely. Avoid getting injured during the first part of the chapter. After meeting Cerlota, separate from her.
How to Reject Cerlota
You can do this immediately with:
“Never. I’ll never ally with a Theurge.”
“No. Find other allies, Theurge.”
or you can do this later by heading to the Ward instead of Sojourn:
“No. Yed’s right; we should be heading north now.”
When you encounter the Blood Raven, all that matters is you eventually fight them.
(a) “Thank you for the offer, but we need to keep moving.”
Get down, attack the sawn-teeth, and take their shelter.
(b) “We’d accept hospitality freely given.”
I attack the ones nearest to us.
The two story branches then reunify. It doesn’t make a difference which you pick.
(1 CHA) “There’s a better way for this to end than us picking you off a few at a time,” I shout, trying to think of one.
(otherwise) I just brace myself to receive them.
If you’re 1 CHA, the Red Kestrel should show up at this point. If not, keep fighting until they do. When they do show up, go on the offensive against the Blood Raven with:
I attack them before they can get out.
Momentum is with me. I charge out to attack the remaining Blood Raven nomads.
Congratulations, you’ve now impressed a cat lady. Cats are notoriously difficult to impress.
Look After Yourself
Look After Yourself:
Requirements: None.
You get this achievement towards the end of your stay in Sojourn with traumaheal > 9. You can gain 2 points by keeping to yourself and not speaking to anyone in the village or with the Whiskered Hawk. This will suffice for the achievement, but is unnecessary.
After meeting Cerlota, agree to work with her, and then during the downtime, each of these provides 1 point and fun wholesome times:
Swap jokes and songs (+1)
Play games with the stones of the gully. (+1)
You could also “Rest in silence” (+2) during that time to achieve the same effect, but it is significantly less wholesome.
After arriving in Sojourn, Cerlota will bring up your nightmares:
I give the briefest of summaries. (+2)
At this point, you need to have acquired at least 4 of the possible 6 points so far. To get the rest, speak to M’kyar, and then meditate on your nightmares with her:
Visit M’kyar to see if she truly can help me escape my nightmares.
I sing along wordlessly. (+5)
I tell her my dreams in detail. (+1)
After winter passes in Sojourn, you’ll get the achievement for Good Mental Health, something we all need in these trying times.
Out of Xaos
Requirements: None
Don’t die and finish the chapter.
Heart of Xaos
Requirements: Saved a helot from Plektoi as a child.
Recommended (but not required): 2 INT
Join either the village or nomads. Afterwards, you need to have a specific conversation:
Village
Old Bellem has survived out here longer than anyone. I want to know what he’s learned.
“What have you learned of the Xaos-storms?”
“What do the nomads say caused the Storms, then?”
“Could you get close enough to see it?”
I take a deep breath. “When do you expect him?”
Nomads
I ask old Kylik about her travels from one corner of the Xaos-lands to the other.
“And south and east, where we’re bound?”
“Would it be possible to go there?”
I take a deep breath. “Would it be possible to meet this rover?”
Now sit back and enjoy the best part of the entire chapter, and gain an achievement along the way.
It takes a minimum of four runs to get every achievement: conveniently, one for each high stat:
(any) Heart of Xaos, Look After Yourself, Out of Xaos
(2 INT) Healer of Xaos, Hospitality Proven
(2 CHA) Saving the Storm-Touched
(2 COM) Still On Your Feet, Unseating the Chief, On Your Feet and Fighting
As a reminder, Scapegoat and A Word of Mercy are teasers for Chapter 6: Dance of Shadows, while the third hidden achievement will not be available until the end of the game.
Speaking of, this is another “Cerlota would be interested in this” thing. AFAIK no one has ever reversed a Xaos-change, I’m sure she’d be very interested in such a change and what you learned doing it. Also maybe there are Sojourners interested in having something like that attempted on them? Be a way to strengthen Sojourn/secure your relationship with them, and to spread the story of this ability if you want to use it for propaganda points.
@Havenstone I just have a question regarding how each age group is perceived within the Shayardene/Karagond culture. Specifically the following:
In Game 1, I have seen no mention of noble arranged marriages even though the noble mc (and their childhood peers) must have reached the ripe old age of 20. Seeing that in our world, nobles are often married off quite young for political reasons, is child marriage (or arranged marriage in general) a thing in Karagond? At which age would it be common/expected for nobles to marry?
Would there be a stigma if a noble decides never to marry? (though my understanding is that they will still be expected to adopt a child to perpetuate the family name)
Regarding helots’ marriages, my (unsubstantiated) impression is that they are expected to marry their other halves (or safe-mates) between 17-25 years old. If any helot is still single at 25, they should not be surprised if they are harrowed before their 30th birthday. Is this timeline correct?
How old is Calea when she starts her sexual predation? The text implies that she starts doing it when she “came of age”, but I’m not sure to interpret that to mean 14 or 20 or anything in between. Also, how old is Dann?
At which age does a Harrowing changes from “oh today they’re harrowing a particularly young helot.” to a notorious Halassurric child execution? I’m quite sure that harrowing Pin or Alless would count as the latter, but would a harrowing of 17-years-old Elery count as a “child execution”? What about Dann? Is there a cutoff age when a child is definitely too young to be executed regardless of the offense?
There is a stigma if anyone decides never to marry. That means that they’re not seeking out their other half and thus going against nature (or if they’re taking lovers without seeking a permanent relationship, then they’re clearly blinded by conupiscience).
Asexuality, in Karagond metaphysics, doesn’t exist - everyone has their other half and desires to mate with them, and if they think otherwise they just don’t know that they really want it. waggles hand to dismiss all evidence to the contrary
Duly noted, though any player who wishes to spread the secrets of Theurgy to XoR’s educated populaces will eventually render your observation obsolete (in their respective playthrough/gameworld).
Luck, or deliberate conspiracy?
Random theory: a rebellious Kryptast (or a Kryptast under the employ of a rebel, e.g. Sarcifer) identified Ganelon as a prospective young recruit/Theurgic student for their cause (thus beginning the process of discreetly dropping basic Theurgic literature into Ganelon’s bookshelf)
Unfortunately, because Ganelon proved too dumb (and/or too lazy) to meet the recruiters’ expectations, the recruiters had to look elsewhere, and to their complete pleasant surprise is INT MC (Ganelon’s companion): who did what Ganelon could not- grasp the basics of Theurgy.
How cool (and creepy) would it be if turned out that Sarcifer has been monitoring INT MC’s Theurgic career since Day One? (thus adding even more weight to Havie’s earlier stated observation that Sarcifer is interested in using/manipulating MC for his own agenda)
And what if instead of being the Hegemony’s Kryptast, Breden was a Kryptast-in-training who was recruited by Sarcifer? (after Breden’s coastal “old masters” had previously died and younger Breden (on the run, or in hiding) was desperately searching for a new employer/purpose)
A reasonable doubt to be had.
Still though, even if Calea isn’t a Theurgic threat, she is probably going to become a formidable player in XoR’s aristo intrigue (and intelligence agency shenanigans) in the future games to come.
So regardless of whatever Calea’s skillset ends up being (by the time of G2’s final draft), I get the feeling that it will be in our best interests (as players) to kill or recruit Calea at the earliest available opportunity.
And FYI, around Jul 2022 (on the Uprising thread), I previously asked Havie:
"Could a “good cop, bad cop” dynamic (and/or Roosevelt’s “big stick diplomacy”) be sustainable between high anarchy compassionate MC and Kalt/Kala? (In the context of their leadership style during later games)
MC would be the one who “speaks softly” while Kalt/Kala (and other enforcers) “carry the big stick”.
If you’re interested in sharing, I’d love to hear about what sort of name, backstory, anarchy, and choices you made your “Happy Holy Homelander Helots” in Game 1!
As for me…
1- HughMyronBrough’s “Savage Warrior” Helot Run
a. Tartarus (Forgot to take notes on what his last name was, sorry) : 2COM/1INT Helot, Ruthless/Devout Homelander, High Anarchy - Uprising Start
b. MC’s goal: Join up with the drudges and Cabelites to get revenge on the aristos, forming a "blue collar coalition/mafia”
c. Game 2 Grand Shayard recruitment targets (per HughMyronBrough’s advice on Discord): Laborers and Foreigners
2- HughMyronBrough’s “Prophet of Peace” Helot Run
a. Velen Stardust: 2CHA/1INT Male Helot - Compassionate/Devout/Homelander
b. Game 1 notable actions: Currently finished (mostly) pacifist run as Eclect Velen Stardust by Game 1, married Breden, and am heading off into the Xaos lands for “honeymoon” with Breden
c. MC’s goal: Aspires to become the pope/Eclect who crowns a Laconnier monarch (who could be swayed (and/or intimidated) to institute helot-friendly reforms)
d. Game 2 Grand Shayard recruitment targets: Laconniers and Priesthood
3- HughMyronBrough’s “Prophet of Peace” Helot Run Variation 2
Assume (mostly) same facts/goals as #2, but with the exception of the following key differences: Velen is a prophet of the Inner Voice (instead of Eclect), and he actually managed to complete Game 1 with an unbroken pacifist streak
The Hegemony was already an impressive magocracy/national superpower to begin with; Saruman is mainly interested in shifting the Hegemony’s capital (and balance of power) from Karagon to Shayard.
(though as a pragmatist, he WILL fill his royal court with cosmopolitans that can help him keep the Hegemony together)
As for Halassur, Saruman is looking forward to conquering it with his legions of “Uruk Hai” Plektoi and (the occasionally unleashed) Xaos-storm WMD!
Ooh, I like the way you think!
And on another note, what’s your gut feeling on the sort of title Calea’s faction would adopt?
1- Caleamites (Taking inspiration from the Wulframite movement of the upcoming Lords of Infinity, FYI)
2- Plural noun version of the Keriatou coat of arms (@Havenstone, was it ever clarified in Game 1 which animal or object the Keriatou coat of arms portrayed?)
3- Calea (In the same fashion that Walking Dead’s Negan insists that his followers repeat “We are Negan”, or how Dragon Ball Z’s Saiyan planet, king, and prince were all named ‘Vegeta’)
Sure, it’s not like Book 5 will ever see the light of day. Int 2/Cha 1 eclect helot that stops the harrowing, low anarchy whenever possible, compassionate, devout, homelander, and secret wisard whenever possible. Decisions are made by him and close advisors. His name is not important. While others believe might makes right or play games for power, he believes right makes might and wants to have already won morally, with the political and military victory following naturally. He restricts his attacks solely to the instruments of the Thaumatarchy and crushed the phalangites, wiping out their theurges in one stroke via being a secret wisard.
He wishes it wasn’t him; he’s not worthy. If someone else should claim they are worthy, then he will make absolutely sure. But so far, it falls to him, and he will see this path to the end. The absolute end. And if in struggle he can become worthy, then he will have his absolution. As all should strive for. Being eclect helps with that. His goal for now is to confront the Thaumatarch with the question, “Does it truly have to be this way?” Some might ask how a helot could make the Thaumatarch or Diadoche look their way - through purity of will, purity of intent, and purity of resolve. He will be as pure as the burning star, and when there is nothing left to burn, he will set himself on fire. Ironically, they may have to turn away. In short, haha, revolution goes brrrrrrrrr.
Hoping there’s a way for a secret theurge to learn how to heal, but if not, that’s okay. He also wants to learn about Vigil as much as he can - had to switch to saving the helot from the plektoi. Romance undecided, wondering how Phaedra will pan out. Your so-called Saruman character is like the antithesis of mine. I find him okay - here’s hoping you have fun with him.
That makes sense, too! (Though we would then have to ask another question: How would we differentiate between the Keriatou family members (who were born or adopted into the family) vs. the non-family members who pledged themselves to (or were paid/bribed to assist) the Keriatou cause?)
There, fixed it for you!
All hail the rise of Captain Not Important!
Do any of the known Shayardene Homelander factions (e.g. Laconniers, Cabelites, the Leaguers’ nationalism-leaning members) have any particular appeal to you (for joining/linking up with), or do you see your helot MC forging his own unique nationalist path? (for the future games to come)
Interesting. If I’m understanding things correctly, your goal is to give Kleitos the ultimatum: “Reform and get your (political) act together, or we will kill you and then do the post-Hegemony cleanup ourselves!”
Twenty is the age of adulthood in Karagond culture — this exact topic is addressed during conversation between an aristo MC and their father, seeing as so much of the toxicity surrounding that man is rooted in being the “hope” for the House, carrying on the legacy of that name.
While several of your peers in Rim Square are already safely betrothed, virtually none actually wed before the start of their life’s third decade. And no one would have expected you to adopt a child into the family for years afterward.
This is fairly realistic, more so than how modern mass culture would imagine the old aristocracy, especially with how perspectives on marriage shifted significantly over centuries. To be unmarried at 20 would not be statistically unusual; nor would it be unusual to be considering marriage in your early 20’s.
I don’t think your lower bound is correct: if helots that young were expected to start getting married, we’d expect it to be more relevant to us before the rebellion. Twenty seems significantly more reasonable: Radmar’s around that age, and the MC and Breden are 20 when they can get married — and this is marriage for love, not marriage to survive.
For evidence, let’s look at some of the helot parents in our rebellion:
Cited Text
Rorind was one of the older boys on the Keriatou estate, the one who taught you how to set a snare when you were five. When he seizes your arm as you’re walking by one day, you don’t immediately recognize him. He’s only a few years older than you, but his hollow cheeks and deeply lined eyes and mouth could belong to your father. "My son is dead,
One helot father, just four years older than you, runs after you and clasps your shoulder. His tears mingle freely with the rain.
“Other than that…the one time I reckon your father truly loved someone was when we were about your age. A beautiful young fellow named Jaq from the Pelematou estate. Never concerned about looking for a safe-mate, our Jaq, open about everything he did.” Her face looks unutterably weary. “Got Harrowed about as quick as you’d expect. Within a week or two, your father had stopped crying and arranged things with his first wife.”
Lelyan emerges from the lower cave. She’s leaning heavily on her sister, but smiling—especially at the scrap of a babe drowsing in a sling around her neck. Her five-year-old son scrambles away from the rest of the children with a whoop and wraps his arms around Lelyan’s knees.
[…]
“I’m twenty-six years old, ${kuria},” Lelyan chuckles indulgently. "Done this four times before.
Lelyan’s implied to have her first kid at 21, we have other parents at 23, and Rorind could be even older. [Helot] Father was probably around 20 for his first marriage, and obviously older for his second. While Lelyan has 5 kids, Rorind might only have one, considering his anguished, “I never thought…I thought we’d die giving him a chance. Not the other way round.” There’s diversity to be had there.
It’s also important to not get caught up in this Zebedian view of the helotry. Helots are also the agricultural labour force, so even a cruel, dehumanising Thaumatarchy would rather not kill them in the prime of their physical condition. They do need the helotry to breed fast enough to maintain populations despite aristos murdering them and the state Harrowing them, but what draws the Theurges’ eye seems primarily to be rebellion. Jaq was Harrowed young, but he openly flaunted his refusal to play by the Thaumatarchy’s rules.
We’re likely to get some insight into how helots are chosen for the Harrowing in the near future, and I suspect it’ll look a lot like the injustices and hypocrisies of the Xaos-village.
In lighter news, did you know that Corras having twins was such a joyous event that the Whendward Band named the warren of caves it happened in after her? In Chapter 3, to test Breden or Radmar, they’re given false information about the band planning to set camp at Corras’ Cave — it’s very likely this is the same campsite the band used during Week 6 of winter. It’s very wholesome. Just ignore that it’s still called Corras’ Cave even when Corras is back in Rim Square.
Dann is described as one of your “young friends”, so he’s roughly around the same age as the MC.
As for Calea, she’s also likely around the same age as the MC, though this needs more inference.
Why Calea isn't much older than you
First, let’s establish a bound that Calea can’t be more than ~3 years older than the MC by dissecting the text surrounding a Hector romance:
It was during the Angelday ball on his family estate three years ago. Both Calea and you were determined to be seen as full adults, and had discussed extensively (and in her case with uncommon generosity) what you would both wear to drive the point home.
Angelday is the spring equinox (making this two years to the day before Olen Stonehewer was murdered, for reference). Since the MC’s birthday is in late spring, this puts them at 16, almost 17. The Karagond age of adulthood is 20, so Calea would’ve been younger than 20 at this time. That said, going off vibes, I read them as about the same age here. Speaking as a 21-year-old, 22 and up is old, and 20 and under is young. That’s just how things be. The bigger the gap between Calea and the MC, the harder it is for me to see their common ground in wanting to be seen as adults.
Also, the aristo MC, Calea, and Hector are childhood — well, not friends, but y’know — and they all learned horseback riding at around the same time, per:
For a moment, you stare out over the familiar landscape where you learned riding and played at swords with your cousins. You remember sitting under those pear trees, listening with mingled curiosity and envy as they recounted the glories and intrigues of the Archon’s court in Shayard City. And you remember the sting of fourteen-year-old Calea laughing, “Oh, ${fname}—what do you mean, when you come up for a Season? We all know your father couldn’t clothe you for a week.”
I personally read Calea as maybe a year or so older. But 3 years is the window I’d give it.
Dann was Calea’s first victim, but we can also learn from Calea’s fourth victim, Tullmer. The Keriatou Masque is set in the autumn before the uprising, about a year before the Fourth Harrowing (placing the MC at 18 — yes, if you “had a summer together” with Hector, Calea makes you play a coarse, ugly brute who’ll never be with their richer, more powerful cousin just a couple months after your break-up), and regarding Tullmer:
The three “favorites” before him had all been Harrowed extraordinarily young, starting with your friend Dann.
So Tullmer was definitely killed within two Harrowings after this (since the third Harrowing only got three elders) — he probably got called up the first Harrowing of the new year considering that Mertice (Calea’s mother) noticed him. It’s rather likely that she’s the one arranging for Calea’s “favorites” to be Harrowed; and considering the prodigious rate that Calea’s described as going through “favorites” along with Mertice’s keen eye, I wouldn’t be surprised if the rate was roughly once per Harrowing. The expected number of Harrowings annually in Rim Square seems to be 3, so under this assumption, I’d suggest that Calea started about a year before Tullmer, which would be 2 years before the start of the rebellion (3 years before the present). That would make her somewhere between 17 and 20 when she started, based on these assumptions.
Broadly speaking, the Thaumatarchy wants to Harrow children if they have an excuse to, because they harvest more aether that way. If they can accuse a child of a crime punishable by Harrowing, you can bet they will. Take, for example, Zebed’s justification for murdering children:
“You are all reprobates and rebels, Angels stand witness. Each one of you corrupted by Xaos! Age offers no protection when innocence is lost.”
Or this Theurge, if your rebellion is caught in the woods:
Run, Pin, run!
Their curt speech carries faintly across the ravine. “Have a care to catch every child. Alive.” Is that a tremor in the Theurge’s voice? “They’re the most important ones to bring back for punishment.”
“Harrowing children, kurios?” The flatness of the Phalangite’s tone perfectly conveys his disgust. “Was that not why we fought the Halassurqs?”
“These are traitors and criminals, corrupted beyond repair by the devil ${lname}. Not true children. Find them all.” He beckons the soldiers on up the stream.
Maybe they would draw a line at woodchipping actual babies, but the Theurge does specify every child, which we know includes infants.
There’s, uh, a rather simpler explanation for how Ganelon got his hands on the First Exercise:
“The First Exercise.” Cerlota clucks her tongue in disapproval. "I have heard that some Theurges find ways of smuggling that scroll into the noble homes where their child has been adopted. They hope that their child will find it and start down a path of meditation that ultimately will lead them to the Lykeion and back to their birth parents.
Ganelon had passed you the thin vellum scroll the previous autumn, as the most readily disposable piece of a small library he’d recently inherited from some distant aunt.
It’s pretty impressive how seamlessly this was integrated: we know per Havenstone’s own statements that Ganelon’s role has grown in the process of writing Stormwright (which is both good and bad news for me, since Ganelon’s death is, to me, the absolute best scene in Uprising). It’s not entirely clear whether Havenstone intended this when writing Uprising, but it fits naturally now: it seems likely that one of Ganelon’s parents is a Theurge, and passed along the library with the First Exercise hidden inside.
The joke theory I had is that Chirex is Ganelon’s mother, because they’re both incompetent and get clowned on by us, and she’s physically visited Rim Square. But we’ll see…
Even then, not necessarily. Take physics for example: any literate layperson can learn concepts from a book, and with some mathematical background can read and understand many foundational papers from decades past. But it still takes years of education to actually become an academic physicist, and it’s not a path that everyone who could take it actually would.
Branching out from education to the nebulous idea of “smart” in general, there are going to plenty of highly skilled, competent people who just don’t grasp Theurgy. Future 6 COM or 6 CHA rebels are going to be geniuses and yet probably couldn’t lift a rock with magic. On a smaller scale, we see Jyrrek struggle with Theurgy even when actively trying to learn.
Personally, I’d be a bit disappointed in Sarcifer If he wants to dedicate his time and energy to watching some self-taught mage in the periphery, it seems a bit of a waste. And if he was paying attention, he could’ve, you know, helped out a little.
It’s worth noting that a rebel Theurge might not be the most interesting ally to Sarcifer, not even considering Cerlota’s hypothesis that Sarcifer wants to rebalance society to weaken the institutional power of Theurges. Sarcifer is already one of the most powerful mages in the setting, who already managed to defeat an Ennearch at what we have to assume was a significant aether deficit. What he isn’t is a warrior-general, or an inspiring voice to mobilise people.
(This isn’t to say that a Theurge wouldn’t be a useful ally to Sarcifer. There’s a lot that could be learned from him: Ward-work, Plektosis, defeating the kill-switch; each of these could make us a usefl piece to wield against the Thaumatarchy, but it remains to be seen how much he’d be willing to teach)
A crimson ram. This is also why they wear kermes-dyed clothes.
I also don’t particularly see Calea as getting her own “faction”; there’s nothing suggesting that caleaname is related to factions, they just happen to be two things Havenstone has already put in the code to hint at future chapters, such as irdgoal, suspicion, and ird_anarchy. Personally, I think it’s what we’ll call Calea in dialogue (e.g. cousin, Calea, Keriatou, etc.) This is consistent with the “cername” variable. @apple’s speculation that it’s what Calea will call us is also valid, and is consistent with other name variables.
A major barrier that Calea needs to overcome is that her natural base of power overlaps with our own: the Outer Rim. The Keriatou are the aristarchs, so the Rim Square houses have to appease them — but what happens if, say, the Archon falls and Shayard is thrown into chaos? Suddenly the Keriatou look a lot less attractive; this is the power of anarchy.
This isn’t to say that I think Hector and Calea will stop being important; just that their power might be less faction boss and more dangerous lieutenant for some faction. I’ve said it before, but I suspect Hector will be rather like the Flame Temple guy from Pon Para: a foil from the same hometown who serves as a rival to clown on (there are so many ways to humiliate Hector already) before somehow becoming a major threat.
In Sojourn, you can improve any one of your stats by one point; if you get INT 3, you’re given the choice to start specialising in some Theurgic skill. One of those is healing, and it can be learned from both Cerlota and M’kyar.
Plato’s fictional depiction of Aristophanes would turn in his grave. And it’s seditious too… after all, what is the part of one’s body that’s always in the beginning connected to another? That’s right, the omphalos. Just as each person strives to become whole, so too does the world strive to become whole again… with its manifest destiny, the Karagond Hegemony.
More seriously, though, it’ll be interesting to see what else from Symposium makes its way into Karagond culture.
Oh, and to keep up the spirit of polls from just a few days ago, here’s a fun one: what element would you choose to base a sacramental liturgy on? They’re all good vibes, and even those rebellions that don’t dabble in religion at all can acknowledge that. We’ll just see about
He can work with any of those factions as long as they don’t sell out or too drastically dilute the will of Shayard - the Leaguers would be the most potentially suspect in this regard. He has placed some hope on the Laconniers being worthy enough to take the mantle of leadership from him, but apprehensive that time or one too many a failure could have made them less than they were.
If the Thaumatarch can give this rebel leader a convincing answer that it truly has to be this way, then in that instant he would bend everything he is into becoming the rebellion’s staunchest opponent. If the Thaumatarch cannot and admits he is unworthy for leadership, then he will be judged and sentenced (perhaps to execution), and worthy leadership will have to be found to enact reforms. If the Thaumatarch cannot and does not concede that he is unworthy, then he and the rebel leader are simply mortally opposed. One or the other must die.
Thank you so much for your thorough, well researched and well thought-out response! I now both feel surprised to get a response of this quality, and feel envy for your INT (i.e. your extraordinary reading comprehension and reasoning skill).
I have tried to read all of the sacred texts (also known as the “game codes”) but found the nested paragraphs quite daunting — oftentimes it’s hard to keep track of which paragraph results from which choice. As it seems very likely to me that you have read all these codes, may I ask whether you would have some advice/suggestion on how to properly decipher them to understand all the causes and effects, and to see everything there is to see? Is there some text editor/reader program you use specifically for this purpose, or is your brilliant mind the only tool you need?
Check out this one simple trick to break any XoG game! Creators hate him!! And basically…your mechanics are fucked.
While on a game, go to where you would type in the website in your browser.
Add “scenes/startup.txt” to the end.
Hit “Enter” on your keyboard.
Boom. The keys to the kingdom. You should see a list of the chapters, including “startup”. Replace “startup” in the website with the chapter you want to go to.
Sorry, I made a mistake. I didn’t read what you were asking for clearly enough. I don’t know about Azthyme, but for me, I basically just grind it out or manage to find a relevant “set variable” and ctrl+f that variable.
CSIDE (ChoiceScript IDE) or Visual Studio Code (VSCode) with the ChoiceScript Language extension are the gold standards for reading Choicescript code. Both offer the key feature you’re asking about, which is being able to collapse nested choices — and Stormwright has significantly less nesting than Uprising did, for what it’s worth. (The most nesting in Stormwright so far is less than half the nesting in Hector Keriatou fight). I personally use VSCode, for this and other projects, since it has extremely powerful navigation and search tools.
For example, VSCode offers an Outline feature that displays variable initialisations, choices, and labels without the accompanying text, for easier navigation. It also has a fast in-context search system within an entire directory, which is useful for both narrative and mechanical referencing. For instance, if I wanted to see every time the word “Cunning-Quick” appeared, I could output a list of those lines and the surrounding context. If I wanted to see every time a variable is referenced, I can do that too. A search for, say, “set xvtrust” shows me every time that xvtrust (trust the Xaos-village has in you) can be changed, with context and line numbers.
My method of reading code for content is to have multiple copies open (or rather, I use VSCode’s built-in splitting and tiling). One serves as a “main” file, effectively a bookmark for cohesion. Then I read subroutines on a different tile, splitting them off as necessary — this is a lot more efficient than scrolling back and forth.
And don’t forget the aesthetic experience! When you’re reading code, make sure to set the font and font size to what works well for you: accessibility tools have been one of the great improvements to HCI thinking. Color and formatting is also incredibly important, and CSIDE and VSCode (with the ChoiceScript extension) both offer it. It’s difficult to quantify just how much more frustrating it is, at least for me, to read a plaintext file without formatting: it’s a wall of text. Personally, I think VSCode’s formatting wins out here, especially against the non-Nightly version of CSIDE. I prefer its aesthetic, especially for code-reading.
Basically, both CSIDE Nightly and VSCode with the ChoiceScript Language Extension are great, and you’re missing out if you aren’t using them for code-reading.
If he wants to dedicate his time and energy to watching some self-taught mage in the periphery, it seems a bit of a waste. And if he was paying attention, he could’ve, you know, helped out a little.