Ah. Is getting along with him dependent on also being a non-theist or can he get along with theists? Like is he an antitheist? Like an agressive skeptic missionary?
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It seems to me that someone could pretty easily believe in Xthonos based on the Aristolian/Thomist Argument from Motion/Change which I think is very compelling in this world given the metaphysics that underlie Theurgy but also reject belief in the Providence/Existence of the Angels and their purported revelation.
I’d think that’s where most high level Theurges probably line up, at least the ones who know how much the Canon was fiddled with.
Seems like “I believe in Xthonos, but Angels don’t control our world, the Canon is nonsense and Xaos is just a mythical representation of pure unformed potency rather than a hostile personal, willing entity” is one route a skeptical character could go in this setting I would think.
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Quick PSA to everyone who’s been getting game-breaking bugs about “achievements not declared in startup” or missing variables…the source of these bugs, as far as we can tell, is a cookie that cogdemos tried to use to keep track of where you were in the game between browser sessions, but caused all kinds of problems when the game files were updated.
Cogdemos no longer uses that cookie, but it may still be on your computer and causing crashes. Clearing your cookies and cache should get rid of the problem and let you play through the whole demo without interruption. (If deleting all cookies doesn’t solve the problem, please let us know.)
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@Havenstone how radical do you see pacifists being able to be? I’m interested how much you’ll be able to say… dismantle the nobility, if you refuse violence completely.
Related question: how developed are principles of non-violence within Xthonist thought? Is there any real tradition to draw on of thinkers or heretics who understood the Angels’ call to Compassion as a call to do no harm?
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Playing the yeoman as the main focus questline, I’ve definitively decided that my MC’s new fixed idea is finding the One True King/Queen and becoming the Merlin to their Arthur.
I love how many motives work for the MC in this series.
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For those that become a Thuerge in G2, how will theurge specalization be handled for G3 if you improve your Int in it, will it depend on whoever was your teacher for G2 or will you just get a default?
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All of your work in deciphering the behemoth of a novel that is the first XoR is impressive! Are all of your guides and Ledd’s on Steam? I’d love to read through them to feel how it’s like to nail the winter raids 
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Yknow, I’ve been thinking about this since the demo dropped… @Havenstone how attached are you to the current spread of specializations? IMO right now the current spread renders Int 3 a little underwhelming, especially if you pick a “dud” like flight. It also unfortunately makes Int seem way more in depth than it actually is, jilting Com/Cha players. I’ve been thinking, how opposed are you to just collapsing them into two specialties, just either Seracca or Hegemonic Theurgy? I think thisd be a stronger choice narratively, since it shifts the burden to “I want to follow this school” instead of “I just want this one power”, but I think it’d also result in more diverse play experiences. A little while ago we ran a poll on the discord on specializations, and again after Irduin released, and these were the results:
As you can see, in both cases Healing easily takes the lead, while Hegemonic Theurgy takes a sharp dive after Irduin came out. I think that’s representative of the “dud” effect (you can also see players don’t seem over fond of the sensory choice either), and I think that if the schools were combined, so that players could either take Flying and Killing, or all types of bodily enhancement, and always get Healing which is preventing players from taking other options. It doesn’t really make Int 3 stronger, so much as more dynamic, and helps to sell the description of “equal to a First Kyklos Theurge”. Like, every Theurge we see knows how to fly, I’m supposed to be equal to a grunt Theurge, and I’ve still got no clue even with Cerlota’s training because I paid more attention to the anatomy lecture? What gives!
I don’t think this would be overly much coding effort either, with it only needing a restructure of the mentorship choices, and a conversion of all the theuspec checks from 1-5 to 1 or 2. I think the Mesniel section might need a second pass of its *if structure after, but everything else should convert easily.
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In ability, not in knowledge, sadly enough. MC never had and never will get any formal magical education or training.
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I really like this idea. It would also simplify a lot of the coding for all the theurge stuff, I believe.
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I feel flying should be relatively easy. Seems like it’s related to levitating which, as discussed earlier this week or last, is clearly one of the easiest changes based on the MC’s ability to figure out so many levitation applications on their own.
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Agree plus what if a mc gets to 3 int in another game or never gets above 3 int. In this case Have won’t have to keep putting in stuff checking for 5 different skills in order to make them still useful
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Thank you!
Regrettably, very few of my guides are on Steam. I have been rather lazy about writing up the finalized guides.
That said I have saved the skeletons for how to run the Winter for various difficult minmaxed runs. You can run them if you have some basic game knowledge.
First, 2COM/1INT Ruthless/Skeptical/Homelander Helot (“Red Bars”), and it works even better with a 2COM/1CHA variation.
2CHA/1INT Comp/Dev(I)/Home Pacifist Helot
I can write Compassionate Noble runs, but frankly they are quite easy to play and will win the final battle flawlessly without much effort, so I’m not sure formal guides are necessary. Ruthless Helots, on the other hand, need near-perfect play to succeed.
My “Savage Goete” guide is on Steam, though I think it can be slightly optimized further. I don’t think it will ever be able to show off Horion/Linos’ body, but I may be able to optimize it to get it called a Goete.
I don’t think Ledd has formally written up his guides either, though he has some text files on the Discord. Ledd and I actually arrived at different Winter strategies for our runs, though we get similar results.
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Connecting with the Cabelites is fun/interesting.
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Well, they don’t really equal them in ability. As is, it seems like the MC matches them in an ability, which makes Int 3 feel a little underwhelming, compared to its peers.
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It’s not just the description on the stat screen either. Cerlotta (who ought to know) straight up tells you you’re equal to a first circle theurge and boasts that being her apprentice is not inferior to being in the Lykeion.
The text also says the skill is what you’re especially good at which implies you ought to be able to do the other things and the specialty should be something you’re just better than most at.
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That’s a great point. Building on @apple’s idea of having all three Theurge powers, I like the idea of an INT 3 Theurge needing more experience before being able to to fully apply what they’ve learned, but then after half a game or so being equal to others in their kyklos
You could maintain the current progression where one power unlocks in Game 2, and then have all INT 3 powers unlock towards the beginning of Game 3, regardless of whether they reach INT 4 in Game 3. Then repeat that in the following games. I don’t think you would even need to touch the code for Game 2, just from Game 3 onward
Details on how that might work
Each time someone reaches INT 3 in Games 2-5, you’d continue using the theuspec values 1-5, but in the following game transition to the values 6 and 7 which would be a full First Kyklos theurge of the hegemonic or seracca path. So INT 3 in Game 2 would unlock one specialization and then unlock the other two INT 3 specializations in Game 3, and the same would happen for INT 3 in Game 4 and Game 5. And for INT 4 and above, you’d do the same thing starting Game 3. At this point I think it would be easier to code with two variables for each level, representing the hegemonic and Seracca split. For example, you could use theuspec2 and seraspec2 for INT 4. INT 4 would follow the same pattern as INT 3, and apply the same logic to INT 5 and 6. In the example below, values 1-4 represent individual specializations for each theuspec and seraspec level, while value 5 represents a full theurge of that Kyklos. If there were more than four specializations for an INT level, you’d add one to that number for the value for a full theurge . This system would continue to allow mixing Seracca and hegemonic training at different levels, with each INT step being tracked individually. I think the transitions could really happen at any point in the games, as long as they were in between the attribute increases
The first transition at the beginning of Game 3 would look something like this
*if (theuspec > 0) and (theuspec < 6) and (g2skillpick = 1)
*set theuspec 6
*if (theuspec > 0) and (theuspec < 6) and (g2skillpick = 2)
*set theuspec 7
and you add the new variables each game starting in Game 4
*if (theuspec > 0) and (theuspec < 6) and (g3skillpick = 1)
*set theuspec 6
*if (theuspec > 0) and (theuspec < 6) and (g3skillpick = 2)
*set theuspec 7
*if theuspec2 > 0
*set theuspec2 5
*if seraspec2 > 0
*set seraspec2 5
by Game 6 it would look like this:
*if (theuspec > 0) and (theuspec < 6) and (g5skillpick = 1)
*set theuspec 6
*if (theuspec > 0) and (theuspec < 6) and (g5skillpick = 2)
*set theuspec 7
*if theuspec2 > 0
*set theuspec2 5
*if theuspec3 > 0
*set theuspec3 5
*if theuspec4 > 0
*set theuspec4 5
*if seraspec2 > 0
*set seraspec2 5
*if seraspec3 > 0
*set seraspec3 5
*if seraspec4 > 0
*set seraspec4 5
You would’t need to do much to bring it from one game to the next, just adding the higher INT variables onto the end each game
TL;DR Create 1 or 2 new variables each game starting Game 3, copying most of the code from one game to the next game
EDIT: I realized my earlier idea was overly convoluted compared to @apple’s original suggestion and didn’t add much value. I decided to delete it and build on their approach instead
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While this would be simple enough to set up, idk about actually implementing it satisfyingly. Part of my original intention was intended to reduce scope and discrepancies between when players hit a certain stat point while maintaining/increasing player satisfaction, and idk if this does that. Tracking which game a stat was chosen in and giving that bonuses feels a little much.
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That’s fair; it’s somewhat a hybrid, and I’m not sure if it combines their strengths or just their drawbacks 
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Oh also double note: with Sojourn being expanded to fit romances and Dilek and the cargo fight, it makes sense your mentor would have more time to teach you, this justifying the change that way as well.
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