Glad to hear that we’re one step closer to tearing down a corrupt empire and basking in the dying agony of its leaders.
Nothing washes out blood quite like more blood, eh?
This game is awesome! I’ve played it many times Havenstone, you’ve done a great work so far and I hope you’ll finish the game!!!
I’ve noted a few errors, in addition to the ones mentioned by WinterHawk.
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there’s a scene in the beginning where Ecclesiast Olynna calls the MC “Kurios” and not
“Kuria” (I pray the same prayer for them that I do for your House, kurios) before I’ve selected the gender, although I might choose to be female later. -
The description of character’s clothes on several occasions (The running helot in one of the openings, Kalt/Kala) mentiones their “tunic”. This is a Latin term and I think it would be better to call it “Chiton” or “Exomis” as your world is greek-inspired.
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The choice of surnames names includes only two choices for a helot’s surname, a Karagond name and a Shayardene traditional name, I think there should be more. Especially the “old Shayard names” are both french-style (de Eramant and de Serin), you definitely should add at least one more Saxon-styled name
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The execution of Ester Cabel: The story says she was “Harrowed and quartered”, I guess this should be a refrence to hanged drawn and quartered, the old british punishment for rebels (though women were burned instead), but the drawing and quartering were an aggreviation to the usual hanging in order to torture the victim while keeping it still alive, but in your world Harrowing is already the usual way of execution and as far as I understand the quartering would have be done to an already dead body. Therefore, It doesn’t make much sence to quarter somebody, unless their religion says that desacration of the body and denial of a proper burial provies suffering in afterlife.
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If I don’t stop the harrowing at the first occasion, Elery Skinner gets harrowed, there should be apossibility to intervene and save her.
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In the raid on the Alsator garrisons, Zvad still calls me Kurios even if I chose not to do so or have forskaen the noble privileges.
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When I played for the first time I’ve had the option to make a raid and destroy the harrowers, but I didn’t have this option during the replays
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I’ve noticed that you don’t use greek letters for the terms (not even in the world index). That’s strange, as it would add a feeling to the game’s world “Choice of the Vampire” features greek letters, so it must be possible to put them in here as well.
I hope when you’re back from Nepal in May you’ll continue working on this wonderful game!
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Thanks so much, @WulfyK – really appreciate the feedback and your thoughtful engagement with the world! Some thoughts in response…
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She’s talking to your father in that scene–I’ll see about making that clearer!
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Mmm, good point on the Latin. I was trying not to go for chiton, though – that’s definitely what they’d call in it Karagon, but in Shayard I’m trying to use more Saxon/French terms for everyday items, with the occupiers’ Greek coming in for religion, politics, and high culture. What do you think – any suggestions?
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The Saxon-esque bits of Shayard (north and west) were in essence conquered by the French bits (south and coast) before they were conquered by Karagon. Hence the local helots still get to have good earthy “Saxon” names; but all the nobles long ago converted their names either to Franco or Greco style.
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I feel like in multiple cultures it’s not uncommon in executions for treason to dismember the corpse and send bits to other places as a warning. That’s what I wanted to connote with the quartering.
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I don’t think I’ll write in the chance to save Elery. If you choose to keep your head down, you’re choosing to let them die – I thought that would be fairly clear?
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Good catch, I’ll fix that.
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and try to figure out what’s going on there.
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I don’t know if using Greek letters would decrease accessibility too much for the average reader. Any thoughts, anybody?
Thanks again–and don’t worry, I’ll get right on it!
Well, I studied ancient Greek two years in high school so for me it’s not an issue. But I doubt all phone devices would be compatible with the Greek alphabet and considering how stupid review let people some people would say you try cursing them with magic symbols. Lol :))
Being a long-time lurker of this game, just wanted to say-excellent job, @Havenstone! Have been eagerly re-playing what you’ve got here so far since last August 
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I also have a question - is there any way of making it possible to have a sort of a love/hate romance with Breden? You know, being a helot-hating bigot and saying terrible stuff to her almost all the time, but falling for her and being given the option of kissing her before that Harrowing. ^^
EDIT: Of course, I’d love to see the said romance develop further than being purely phsycial. 
Just the way it’s possible without being a helot-hating bigot.
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More Errors: I refuse to be out done @Wulfyk.
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During the trial when the rebellion begins there is a continuity error with the new Olynna Intro. “This Theurge took part in Harrowings in your town over the past year, and every sacrifice in the last two decades has been sanctioned and welcomed by Ecclesiast Zebed”
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The combat text for the Raid on the Architelone, does not appear correctly when your combat stat is at one. It looks like this “the panicking survivors manage to get their shields up and ring the Architelone’s caravan. his bloodcurdling battle-roar sends the enemy scrambling frantically out of his path.” It displays correctly at combat two and zero, the problems is just present at one.
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The MC is called kuria, regardless of preference and gender, if you frame Alynia Leybridge. “Radmar!” you call over your shoulder. “See they don’t break any of that crystal. We’ll want it intact.”
“Aye, kuria.”
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The choice to take Breden with you does not appear if you are a noble, and you refuse to take your dad on the begging mission.
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Zvad also get mentioned in the Owlscap raid here if you don’t take him. “Elery, Zvad, and the surviving archers limp back into camp two days later.”
I am not certain about using the Greek letters. I figured out almost every word just using context clues, and they didn’t feel unfamiliar, but they still felt foreign (In a good way). I didn’t feel lost, but I still felt like I was in a new world. You get the point I am making right?
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You’re an error-finding treasure. Can’t wait to be back at the laptop to fix all this stuff.
@RebelMaiden, thanks so much for delurking to comment! If I do write in an option for the bigoted aristo to succumb to their repressed desire for Breden, it won’t go well. Breden most definitely will not reciprocate (s/he is attracted to respect, and the sort of haughty disdain I’ve written for the “typical aristo” is a major buzzkill).
New page, new link to the game and the draft world map.
There’s accessibility to consider. Most people know what a tunic is, chiton and exomis seem less common. I’ve never heard the terms before today, though I can’t really speak for anyone but myself.
You’re welcome, @Havenstone ! I enjoyed your game and am glad to help you make it even better.
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Apparently, the anglo saxon term for tunic was “crytle”. Alternatively, you can call it a “shirt” or a “chemise”, depending on how it looks like. I whish you had a section on clothing in the world index. BTW, you describe the helot clothing more often then the nobles clothing though the latter should be more elaborate.
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- also, If the political terms are predominantly greek, I guess you should use the term Basileia instead of Empire/imperial
-thank you for the info, but my main point was the lack of name options. You have 3 names for each gender and 2 surnames, that’s only 6 name combinations for a helot. For a noble, there are also 6 pure Karagond and 6 pure Shayardese combos and 12 more with given name and surname form different cultures. Altogethdr there are 30 male and 30 female name combinations, with only 12 of them for helot MCs, and that’s much less than in most other games. I’d suggest you to give the player a choice between 5 or 6 helot given names and an equal number of surnames. For the nobles, you might add a few more names and surnames as well.
-But the exhibition of the body parts as a warning doesn’t fit to the strict prohibition to mention her name. the Empire should either want everybody to forget about the rebellion at all or let them remember that it was a failure aand the leader was punished harshly. In the latter case, a simple harrowing is a surprisingly mild punishment. In real history until the age of enlightment and the prohibition of cruel and unusual punisments, captured leaders of major rebellions who weren’t noble were usually given a particulary gruesome execution, but here we have the leader of a major uprising subject to the same punishment as thousands of others who were harrowed for small misdemenor. I’d expect an evil empire to be more “creative” when it comes to deal with defeated enemies.
Also, Karagond seems to make a point about modesty, as helots are punished for “unchastity” and the nobles are taught to control their lust and that this separate the human from the beasts. Exposing a women’s naked body for a quartering and exhibiting the (uncovered?) quarters looks somewhat unusual in that context. If you want to keep the “mentioning her name will get you harrowed” thing, then I suggest you to use burning and scattering the ashes instead. Or will these body parts play a particular role in the later chapters?
-I guess you’re right concerning Elery. BTW, can you perhaps include an option to make her my XO and not only Zvad or Breden? She’s a tactician and the MC knows her longer then Zvad and unlike Breden there’s no reason to distrust her.
-What about asking the player at the beginning if they want greek letters? Depending on their choice they would show up or not, it would work the same was as the male and female pronouns for the charactrer. And including greek words in the wold index shouldn’t affect the world anyway. The Choice of the Vampire game does include a greek sentence at the beginning of the Vicksburg chapter, therefore it should be possible to include some greek words here as well, it would be very nice.
-Do you consider giving the MC’s father a name and including him into the notable rebels section? After all, he’s present at some important meetings with the named rebels and I can give him a mission in one of the quests (negotiating with the helots). I guess he should be in the notables section.
@WinterHawk , well, but you didn’t notice this one: If Radmar stops eating and dies in the winter, he doesn’t appear in the list of thise who died in my rebellion.
Well, continued thanks – it will be better when I’ve incorporated your feedback.
Kirtle, or smock, or chemise. Hmm. All gender neutral originally, all gendered today. Interesting.
“I guess you should use the term Basileia instead of Empire/imperial”
I really should, especially given that I bent over backward to give “conty” and “conte” a Greco derivation instead of the real-world Latin. But again, accessibility is an issue. How many readers will I throw off, in a bad way, by sticking to my etymological guns?
I actually reduced the number of names on offer in order to keep those choices relatively short – would others prefer more choice of names? And if so, any specific ones you would suggest, in keeping with the themes for naming? (eg de- or -atou for noble surnames, low status rural jobs for helot surnames).
Good points on Ester Cabel. I’d thought of it like this: Harrowing is well known as one of the most excruciating ways to die, cracking open bones and drilling into the skull to access the blood, and for non helots, who are usually exempt, the shame involved in being Harrowed is unmatchable. The one mitigating factor is that Harrowing is usually over quickly; so let’s introduce Slow Harrowing, in which it’s prolonged over a day, as the punishment for treason. As for displaying of body parts and nudity – I think it’s often cultures with a strong shame dynamic and sexual repression that use those as punishments. Cabel’s body parts have long since rotted off the Bonetree; they weren’t conversation-starters for all that long.
I left out the Elery as initial deputy option for simplicity’s sake (justifying it by the fact that her tactical nous is so far known only from scrum ball games, which is not the kind of thing to inspire mass confidence). There will definitely be the option to promote her over Zvad or Breden as the rebellion grows.
I’ll think about the Greek letters. Frankly, it might be a bit more authenticity than I can manage–I don’t speak Greek, the words are usually not real Greek, and using Greek letters might raise expectations I can’t live up to!
Your father is not one of the notable rebels who will be remembered with you in song. And that’s all I’ll say about that.
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It’s nice to read that I can please you.
I think it’s because fashion back then was more unisex. If you want to know more, i found the term here http://anglosaxonliterature.wikispaces.com/anglo-saxon+culture
If you explain the terms in the glossary in the world index, it shouldn’t be a problem. JK Rowling used a lot of made up terms JRR Tolkien invented entire languages for their works and it didn’t throw off the readers.
For the names: Well, you have invented the system, so add just your prefered jobs for the helots (like Shepherd, Baker, Tanner, Hunter). For the nobles, how about de Grayvale? Otherwise, use the ones you prefer, or ask the peoe here kn the forum for advice. What about letting everyone who contributed so far to propose a name which fits in your pattern? Like a small reward for all of us?
i’m not sure how a slow harrowing could continue for a day; losing 1/3 of the blood volume is already lethal and drilling through bones won’t take that much time… And as to the nudity, does a harrowing, whether normal or slow, include it? I don’t recall any mention of the victims being stripped in the game.
Quartering would require stripping the body or destroying the clothes in process anyway, that’s why it wasn’t used on women in the real world history. It was not for the condemned women’s sake but also for the spectators: they should’t see a women’s private parts
As to the body parts - the bones might be still there and I thought if the MC will meet Jac Cable somewhen later in the game, they win his favor by recovering his mother’s remains.
Good to heer that! Elery and Radmar need more characzer develolment, I like them a lot.
Well, at least @poison_mara know greek, so you might get help here. Besides, for the spelling of political and religious terms you can look up in the greek wikipedia
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@Haventone, does Shayard City have a ward? I wasn’t sure if it did, and if it is one of the five major cities, then taking that city will be very difficult. Only thoughts that come to mind would be to starve the city into surrendering - a very bad idea since it would take a long time and you would likely have to face some kind of huge clash ouside it when they bring reinforcements from elsewhere; or to take it from the inside out, scavenging and preparing weapons and stashing them in some warehouses and slowly sneak your rebels in for an overnight coupe more or less. I would think this would require aid from the Aristocrates/Merchants though, otherwise you would likely have your stash found and seized before you could do anything. Of course with a tongue and money, perhaps a couple hired blades could give an early end to the leaders and send the place to anarchy before march on the city. I guess a repeat of Caesar at Valencia should be in order for the taction characters? Well, with magic and awesomeness n such lol.
@Lazerith, Shayard City does indeed have a Ward.
Getting access to any of the weapons on the inside would be extraordinarily difficult – as you can imagine, the authorities are very big on arms control in the capital cities – but still more likely to succeed than a siege. Your rebellion will have to be very advanced indeed before you can field an army that openly without getting wrecked by the Thaumatarchy.
Putting an early end to the leaders, on the other hand, is possible without weapons… or at any rate, without anything that would register as a weapon to the Wards. A scarf, a rope, a rock.
Or… you might just have to look for a way to temporarily bring down a Ward.
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Storywise, it would be better to take Shayard City quickly and spare the great siege for the Karagond capital.
Also, Can you perhaps include a page or so on how the MC meets Zvad? in the current version he’s ere and one of the 2 candidates for the XO.
And please include a possibility to raid the yeomen’s barns and not only the helots’ and the nobles’
@Havenstone Aww, so my poor Caesar shall never have a happy ending with his helot. xD
Very well written, however I would like to see less magic. Also why would an aristocrat who is so hated be trusted over a helot?
@Havenstone said: The Saxon-esque bits of Shayard (north and west) were in essence conquered by the French bits (south and coast) before they were conquered by Karagon.
Interesting. So, our intrepid hero’s ancestors might well have been on the boot end of a history of oppression which goes back well beyond the Karagond empire?
Will we have the chance to revive those regional identities, or are they too far gone?
I can imagine a helot character wanting to do away with the vestiges of the old nobility post-revolution, but still realising that they need something to hold society together and that asking everyone to hold hands under a rainbow isn’t going to cut it.
In such circumstances, appealing to ancient folk memories by appointing oneself King, and one’s most trusted followers Earls and Thanes, might be an attractive proposition.
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Alternatively: smuggle materials and an armorer loyal to the cause into the city, then have the weapons made once safely past the ward.
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Who need weapons? Just poisoning all water supplies, spread illnesses, burn their farms and kill their animals. Ward couldn’t stop poison
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