Zombie Exodus: Safe Haven -- set for release 10/28/16

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@Sylfaen fair points.

I also just want to point out that if you go the scientist route, you can learn that: “Cases are popping up in Europe and North America too.”

Depending on what parts/cities it is hitting, it might be that some towns are already cut off/under curfew. Otherwise if Nightfall is really the first to go, then they really dropped the ball somewhere along the line.

Which could be another way to indicate the Apocalypse is happening around the world. Maybe in the beginning the news is reporting on “continued mass riots” in a nearby state. It is reported as riots as opposed to “zombies” to help maintain order and normal life in other states.

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I can understand why others doesn’t want to be very powerful from the start. But personally i enjoy to defeat my enemies so easy. Maybe to have the option how to play will satisfy both sides. I want to be able to make my teenager MC a killing machine if i want.

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@jcury people aren’t complaining but one person suggested I add IAP of 99 cents for an extra 25-50 skill points. She wants to play a very overpowered character. As a player, I’d probably buy such a thing. As a developer, I worry about selling an unfair advantage.

And @anon58013278 seems to like that option.

[quote=“WolfieGrey, post:2169, topic:2000”]
Once the game is finished you are going to put the option to customize starting attributes back in, correct?[/quote]

@WolfieGrey Yes, I will add it back in. I run randomtest often to identify errors, and that one feature bogs down randomtest.

I’d say some will be less useful while in the starting areas. Driving in the city will be problematic, so that skill is less useful there. I have a few missions coming in the next chapter which are starting-location dependent, and use different skill sets.

Not reassign but I may allow the first skill purchase to occur leading into chapter 2, so people can start testing it for me. That would allow a hacker to raise CCW if she chose to.

I also want to add an option for custom characters to pick a class to mirror, so they can be “seen” as that class. So if you want to make a Special Ops character from scratch, you can select military background and go through the military prologue.

Thanks for catching that!

@Sylfaen that’s a good idea. Also maybe provide reduce costs to level class skills. For example, Engineers receive a 1-point reduction for levels of engineering and science.

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The timeline is somewhat disjointed at the moment, we’re actually dealing with a few issues that are interconnected. I like your idea, especially since it would make sense for there to be multiple hotspots for a full country-fall, but I just feel like I need to summarize what is being discussed for my own sake, if you’ll indulge me.

  1. The crux of the issue is how fast the city falls. Suggested fixes include extending the timeline and/or making Nightfall one of the initially infected areas.

  2. Related to, but still separate is how quickly the military/police fail. Suggestions, again, include extending the timeline or an explanation is while some of them knew theoretically how to combat the virus, actual implementation failed.

  3. People are concerned about how it doesn’t really give the vibe of an apocalypse, possibly because of how quickly things escalate. This doesn’t seem to be that big of a deal, lots of suggestions on how to fix it.

  4. How one obtains skills, is it just game magic or are there some limits? Is it logical for them to be learned in a day or should the timeline be extended to make sense of it? Again, lots of discussion.

That is all of them, I think… Did I miss anything?

@JimD
As a guy who mods the games he gets to do stuff like that (stat mods to see everything after I finished the game legit a few times), I’m conflicted. Locking that behind a paywall means I can’t do it, since it’d be unethical as hell to mod in something that’s an IAP. On the other hand, more money to you. It’s a messed up situation, I don’t think I can vote one over the other. The rest of you guys will have to weigh in on this.

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@JimD
I am on board with both the limit and reduce costs to level class skills.
Those options will add reality to the game.

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I agree with this and @Sylfaen’s suggestions on how to improve the class and skill mechanics. Since, based on what you’ve said about the engineer, each “class” seems to have two favoured skills, I suggest a maximum of three skills at 7, as that would allow my actor to become a skilled medic as well. Proving that in this case mom was ultimately right and her darling son could indeed have become a doctor if the acting bug hadn’t bitten.

The only problem is, how are you planning to handle the teenager, college student and possibly the homemaker professions in this regard. As they all represent characters that have not (yet) chosen to firmly commit to any particular career path. Will we need to select two favoured skills for them at the start, possibly representing their hidden talents, or will we be asked if we favour any particular skill the first time we attempt to raise it to 6?

As far as custom classes go the one I’d be most interested in is making an army flyboy.
So I guess that would need to use the military commander for emulation, so the other soldiers address my character as an officer (seeing as the normal soldier background is for enlisted personnel).
While I don’t know the exact training US Airforce pilots receive, I do know that they need to be very fit quite smart and obviously have an aptitude for flying.
So one favoured skill would definitely need to be driving (since it’s the general vehicle operation skill in the game) while the other would probably either be athletics or leadership along with reasonable proficiency in ranged weapons, science, electronics and search.

IAP, or no, no one is going to prevent me from modding my own games on my own computer, though obviously a skill point IAP means that we can’t possibly release our skill mods on this forum, or anywhere else, ever.
If you do go the IAP route, I think sticking to IAP’s that add actual content is best, seeing as how Choicescript is a fairly simple and eminently moddable system that almost anyone who desires to can mod (though in all honesty, I had to reinstall Sabres once after I attempted to do a bit of modding). Of course I’d also appreciate it if you’d let me buy a super elite premium platinum version up front to reduce transaction fees and hassles to a minimum.

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@JimD

I noticed that I’ve never seen any soldiers/police officers in Chapter 1 or Chapter 2. Is this intentional?

I would’ve thought that those guys would try to restore order or something similar at the beginning of the zombie outbreak.

Also, if there are police officers, can the MC please take a riot shield from them? I think it’ll be useful.

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Gave the demo my first try and it’s a very welcoming change, more professions with detailed strengths and weaknesses, the traits add interesting challenges.

Tasks in between main activities were enjoyable and bizarrely educational (filling the bath full of water in case of utility shutdown is something I would of never thought of)

The part I like the most is that survivors you come across are EXTREMELY expendable, ZE had many characters which were virtually unkillable before the final scene. Jillian and Lyle died many times before I figured a way to save at least one of them, makes me think very carefully about my decisions, of course I will expect a one or two unkillables in the future, but if more survivors have this vulnerability it will make the experience intense and challenging.

Hopefully we revisit the characters we came across in the prologue (Bailey/Vivian, your Business Associate, Rosie if we rescued her etc.) and of course what the heck happened to Jaime’s hand, I don’t believe his accident story due to… Past ZE runthroughs…

I hope we can see our survivors play more practical roles, going out on food runs, cooking, being social supports, maintenance. I can see endless possibilities and assignments each person have. For example, Jillian is a con artist so she could help you on runs to get the drop on people and con them out of their gear and Jaime was a security guard so his presence at the safe haven gives you more of an advantage to put the frighteners on bandits. But we could also have traits on each survivor that can put a negative on daily survival and moral. As we all know, Jillian already has the makings of Heather 2.0

Edit: also if you do decide to have Rosie a part of future plans, PLEASE could you add a confrontation scene if you chose to shoot her in your first encounter? I see a verbal standoff and possibly some hilarity in it.

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It’s a problem he is currently working on.

If it’ll make you feel better I can give you entirely lore-friendly reasons they aren’t everywhere at the moment. It’s easy to make an educated guess from a few lines of dialogue.

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@JimD I like the idea of preferred skills. Getting a “discount” on points if it’s a preferred skill.
As for things like Teenager, College Student, etc I think that could be offset like you gain skill points more often or start with more skill points. Somehing to balance it out.
Also are you thinking about doing a brief childhood phase. Kind if explore your characters past a bit to get a more real sense of who your person is before the outbreak.
What do you think about group skills.
I know that you don’t have to be the leader, but you could still effect the group’s overall skills like in ZE you could train everyone in the use of firearms so I was thinking you could do the same here. For instance if you have high empathy, then you can improve the overall morale, high crafting better defenses and possibly armor for everyone and your safe house, etc etc

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hang on a minute…haven’t played as the college student for a while…but the letting agent asks you what you study?..surely that is/could be the source of preferred skills or whatever they’re called lol. I’m sure similar dialogue could quite easily be put in for teen and home maker(don’t know how it is in the US as I’m from the UK but for teen what GCSE’s you took home maker what qualifications you took)…oh yeah and @JimD that’s a thought…how is the home maker different from unemployed/why isn’t it just called unemployed? I know it’s not to be politically correct lol as the term is used. Because you obnly have family additional to other backgrounds(nephew obvs) if you choose to, otherwise it feels like just unemployed tbh.

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There is no real equivalent of the GCSEs in the US, so that wouldn’t work. As for Homemaker… There is both a difference of perception and a difference of what they do. Unemployed people seek work, while a Homemaker essentially works at their home. Their tasks including typical housework, lawn care, house maintenance, and interior design in some cases. Their skills reflect this.

Homemakers don’t work because they don’t -need- to, Unemployed people don’t work because they need to -find- work.

@EmperorHeartless
I don’t think that’d work. Or, well, it would but I don’t think many of us would enjoy it. I know I’d hate that situation. I think @idonotlikeusernames has the best idea, you can max up to three skills as a Teenager (two preferred + one free for all the other professions), but you’d suffer from not having preferred skills. More customization at a cost, makes sense.

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oh sorry meant you could use whatever American tests teens take, like someone asking what you’re studying at high school and those being your preferred skills. and cheers for clearing that up :slight_smile:

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@JimD

Your BMW sits at the edge of curb, now marked with scratches and dents. Riding (driving) to your destination will be faster and less of an effort, but it will also raise your visibility.

The following choice also says “Ride my bicycle”

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Sorry, I don’t think I understand what you mean. That’s the scene you are referring to: "Jaime stops a foot from the dying bandit, tears in his eyes, mouth twitching. “I told you this is how it would end,” he says, staring down at Dillan. “We were safe. We had everything. The things you did, the people you hurt,… what you wanted us to do.”

How does joining Dillan’s group make him a flawed character? The way I interpreted it is that good guy Jaime stood up to Dillan and refused to participate in whatever morally questionable thing that guy had planned.

Now considering that Dillan has lost several fingers and been bitten by a zombie, I interpreted Jaime shooting him as a mercy killing. He even cries while doing it.

As I said before, I like Jaime, but if you play a character with a criminal background, he’s just a bit too much:

  • physically imposing 6 foot 10 security guard
  • eloquent outreach counsellor who helped you win your parole hearing
  • zombie expert
  • loyal and selfless friend who does not hesitate to come back for you
  • clearly very intelligent

Is no one else bothered by this?

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@Sylfaen thanks for summarizing the issues. If I could have mods for a thread, I’d pick you.

I don’t think modding is unethical if you can pay to do the same without modding. Your value to the discussion is worth it to me, so you have permission. Of course, I see your ethical dilemma. I also see the vast majority of players as not being able to mod, so it offers them a chance to play at a much higher capacity (high skills).

@jcury it seems like limits to master-level skills and a reduced cost for class-skills has a lot of votes. Thanks for your vote.

@idonotlikeusernames 3 master skills sounds fair, and I don’t want to disappoint mom.

Maybe for teenager and college student, they are allowed no masters levels but have reduced costs for all skills? (what @EmperorHeartless suggests) This shows their propensity to learn. For homemakers, I can choose specific skills like cooking and scavenging for example. I like the idea of the college student declaring a major, though.

I don’t want to discuss IAPs yet but I have an idea that is HUGE, and I’m excited about it. I think it handles the skill point dilemma, adds content, and will be fair. Once the game’s on chapter 4 or 5, I’ll do a private beta with IAP implemented for testers to try.

@NJG we’re having the discussion now about lack of police and military, and I definitely am altering the game to add more from those groups. A riot shield may make its way in :smile:

@Nathan_Faxon yes, I want survivors to be mortal in this game. Everyone is at risk. I will need to make some NPCs last so there’s some degree of character development but in this setting, people will die.

I do want to have player management of survivors. So you (if you’re the leader), send people out for food. Or if you are not leader, maybe you are sent to find medicine. I do like the idea of using peoples’ talents, as you said. Jillian conning people out of food will surely happen.

@EmperorHeartless great ideas on Teenager and College Student.

I have no plans as of now. I want to keep things in the present.

Group skills are great ideas. I will have to see if I want the effort to code them.

@Bruno_Frank_Hill as Sylfaen says, Homemaker is a profession, while Unemployed is typically looking for work.

@WolfieGrey thanks. I need to check out vehicle coding. I screwed that all up.

@5ubzer0 so you don’t like Jaime or have suspicions about Jaime? Or just think he’s too good to be true. Unfortunately he’s just introduced so you haven’t gotten to the heart of him. If you thought he mercy killed Dillan, I need to rewrite that scene.

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The reason I interpret it as a mercy killing is because Dillan ends up so heavily wounded. "His stomach is torn open, and several fingers are missing on his gun hand. He has a large slice on the side of his head, and blood gurgles from a wound on his throat."

It seems most humane to kill him at that point.

If he hadn’t been bitten by a zombie and was not dying of his wounds, it would make sense to me that Jaime shoots him in cold blood.

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So long as I can make it that Brody and Jamie survive, I’m okay with that.
As for the homemaker, picking two favoured skills at the beginning would be best I think, they can either represent a former profession (soldier/flyboy with PTSD, for example) or hidden talents. Just don’t make it cooking and scavenging for every homemaker, as not everyone who chooses to stay at home is a good cook.

For the teenager, I would agree with the cost reduction for most skills (up to level 4-5), but maybe allow one master level skill to be obtained at no discount for levels 6 and seven like the one non-favoured skill for the other professions.

The college kid could be handled similarly to the teenager, but you could also let him choose a major and a minor so he ends up with two favoured skills (+1 free), like the other professions, just more customizable.

Like I said, if it’s day one dlc, so to speak, I’d like to be able to buy it on day 1, in one transaction, if at all possible.

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@JimD

Yay! :grinning:. Oh, and could we also get a bulletproof vest while we’re at it? I’m kinda getting jealous of the bank robber having one at the start of the game.

Edit:

Also, why is the strength of a bank robber low? I kinda thought that we’d have to have average strength (if not slightly above average) to carry the money, shotgun, ammunition, and other bank-robbing stuff.

Edit #2:

Something I don’t understand:

The game mentions that Reilly is the bank robber’s partner-in-crime for 2 years. Then if we ask Reilly who he was talking to on the phone, the game mentions that the MC met Nora 5 years ago.

How exactly did we meet Nora?

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I meant it’d be unethical to mod in something that replicates what an IAP does. It’d be like me editing the later Heroes Rise games to tell me which choices correlate to what stats, doing that I could completely bypass the IAP which is just…wrong. On the case of if you feel ‘buying’ skill points feels like an unfair, you could always just add in a small code system. Like have your character get a text in the middle of the quiz, and if you respond to it in a certain way (ie the codes) you get more skill points. You’d get the code by just completing the game, or alternatively waiting an hour for someone else to finish it and post the code on the forums (we are bad at keeping secrets).

Hell there could be more than one that each do different things, maybe one gives characters a higher starting opinion of you, or gives you more food to start. I think Unnatural did something similar, and it was pretty neat.

@5ubzer0
I never thought of that scene as a mercy killing, and I always thought Jaime came off as incredibly cold-hearted after we rescue him. My first thought was “wow what happened to him, he is completely different”.

Plus he is hardly perfect, maybe as a Criminal he comes off as a Saint (who doesn’t to a guy who commits crimes?). He’s just an average guy who is really prepared for a zombie apocalypse.

@idonotlikeusernames
Well, in Homemaker we do get to pick what we do in our spare time and college students can choose a major. It’d be easy enough to make those pick your preferred skills. Depending on how much he feels like doing, we could even get things like the Military Commander has Leadership compared to the Combat Medic’s First Aid and the Infantry’s…something. So they all share one preferred skill (likely Ranged Weapon) but their differing specializations reflect different ‘secondary’ skills.