[WiP] Lords of Aswick: Voice of God (and some news)

low-fantasy
gender-locked-female

#214

You only have a very small perspective of the theological angle unless you will play your character to activate engaged in it. Especially with the Crusader arce. So I catch your argument you just don’t find church politics interesting at all no matter how interesting it can get.

I don’t view this is pandering iview this is an experiment and a test of this writing ability. And look at the games here but our agenda locked predominately male. So the fact you have a gender locked female game in a generational series is shocking?


#215

The majority of games and demos don’t even require you to commit to a gender let alone the opposite of the one you actually are.

Further I played through Lords of Ascwick several times religion doesn’t even really come up. As a sequel goes it’s almost a complete departure from the content of the previous game.


#216

Ok people is better if we stop this heated discussion, people have different points of view if anyone has problems with this game that is gender-locker female just do not read the game anymore, we do not want to ruin the experience of this wonderful sequel or the Closenid of this thread just for a silly discussion right?


#217

I think it’s time to break this up guys. It is clearly that you both have differences of perspective on this case.

Edit: Ninja’d


#218

I’ll complete the departure would be a game about industrialists. Again this is a game about a family. He did not want to be a carbon copy of the first game. But it does have some similarities a lucky chance for the patron and a rise to power. Just in different Sphere. Mind you to the main character in this game can become more politically and theologically powerful than the main character at the height of their powers as Lord chancellor in the first game. You said you wanted adventure how it’s not being a friar adventurous. Look at the craziness that St. Francis pulled and were his life took him in his travels.


#219

Yea but it’s not a character you know from the first game even in the slightest so who cares? It’s a poor sequel in that there is no real reason for you to care either about the protagonist, or the subject matter of the game as it relates to the previous game. The subject matter isn’t really the same and you don’t revisit any of the same characters so there is no real emotional investment. Further the game is basically a bait and switch as we start off with an action/economy simulator and we get a Conclave knock off as a sequel. The relation of the first game to the second is really tenuous and tangential at this point.


#220

Well the one what he’s doing his world building again going back to the fact this is a generational game. Care about the protagonist is much as you are invested in the family that you helped found in the first game. And it’s related to because it’s part of the bigger world ended and it complexity. Did you just want another game where you playthe sixth Earl? Brother this is Not CK2 which FYI I love that game. This is about the nuances and exploring the major players in the family and intern doing so sing the world change evolve and different viewpoints of it through regardless a privilege lens but still vastly interesting. Personally me I read ferociously and I love a good generational series. Or even generational book. If you write it right the main characters the family and their fortunes and positions and how the different numbers play will change and evolve. And him making it this way he showing the expansion of the world and what we learn about it.

Honestly My Friend I feel like you’re grumpy that it’s gender locked female and you’re stuck as priest. Me anyway it sounded like you wanted to carbon copy of the first game. It is insulting to say it’s up poor sequel when the games that even finished yet.

I’m not trying to win argument here I’m just presenting a point. Which all good arguments do byshow premises and conclusions and who’s ever reading it then decides.


#221

The world is simply a generic fake fantasy Europe and we played the last game in fake fantasy England and France for all intents and purposes. Hence the setting was kind of beside the point, there was nothing exceptional about the setting. The game itself was well executed and written and provided an good combination of action, roleplaying and building. From my perspective it would have been a better game to simply have you play the sixth earl and simply face whatever problems he faced at that particular juncture in time, and have mined history to that end as the first game was basically plotted after the Hundred Years war with some of the Augevan succession thrown in towards the end. You can move on to the war of the roses and use the same general format, different story but a sequel in tone and format. Making Crusader Kings 3 that was nothing like Crusader Kings 1 or 2 would very likely be a very poor decision for Paraxis as the people who liked the previous games were not signing on for Papal Synod Sim.

The key to a generational series such as those written by Mitchner or Rutherford is that the characters are really secondary to relating interesting history and events in a particular country or location. That doesn’t really work when it’s an imaginary world with ill defined history and countries which we have no particular interest or attachment too.


#222

Do you don’t my friend I do. That’s the thing is you’re supposed to be attached to the family.

This year I think really will you’re hurt yourself in the argument. You wanted more of the same in it to mirror fantasy version of our history. By increasing another relatable historical secular conflict. And that’s the thing is the characters in the end of the day or both focal but secondary. Obviously you know your history and your denying the impact of the Reformation which is what’s going on at least the similar in this world. By putting us in the religious cast we have a much bigger role and also stake to play it. Which is the larger influencing game changer there any successional war. And that’s the thing Teo from the gecko is making it about the family. He always choreographs of the senate subtitles the weather games that be about. The first ones about the founding of the dynasty and reading at space of power and it’s overall legacy. The voice of God this is about the authority of the church and where is the authority coming from and who gets to go and say who it is the Theology matters which as you know historically can explode into mini world wars.

That’s the thing about this game you care about the world and the affect the family can have one that you care about the family because you’re hoping to reading it so as a player of the game you’re investing in their legacy and their status as much as you are in the role-play. Also FYI the fact that you think church is true pouring in politics just shows your lack of research on the subject it is vastly interesting convoluted and has a great affect on world more than any wars and conquest and empires.


#223

Yea but here’s the thing I don’t care about the family. I have no reason to. The family isn’t particularly well developed. It’s basically just one of three aspects of your game play from the first game. I liked the first game and it’s format and that’s really all I have any attachment to arising from the first game.

You could probably make an interesting game about the the 30 years war. But Gustavus Adolphus was not a priest.


#224

Tell that to the bishops that literally fought in the War.

Or someone like Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa


#225

Alright guys, the debate is interesting. I will commend you both for developing your arguments but it is clear neither one is going to budge from your viewpoints.

I will cherry pick from what has been said and go from there.

I agree with this. The current “problem” is, as it is written, family is stripped from you very quickly in the demo. Leaving you without the familiar thing that you should care about and into the religious realm that some apparently didn’t experience in book 1. (I had to intentionally “mess up” to go down that route and try it out.)

So, if I am reading @chrisbat correctly, that is a source of frustration. If I am right, I understand that argument.

I have a question: Did you bat an eye when you played Samus Aran, Laura Croft, any female character in a fighting game, FemShep or any other female video game protaganist in video game history? If not, then you could at least extend that same courtesy to this game. If it is a good story, then the genderlock makes no difference.

Don’t get me wrong, I was as surprised as you were at first because I had imagined the twins referrence at the end of FOHB to mean twin boys. Playing as a girl gave me an initial shock due to expectations but it is something I got over pretty quickly.

Now then, all of this talk about church history. In a sense, you’re both right. It can be interesting to folks that are inclined to learn about such things. I studied it a great deal when I thought that the Church was the path that I would trod.

As @Rogar said, the councils held a ton of interesting debates. The life and Confessions of Augustine are interesting. You also have the written works of the Church Fathers in Acts as well as from the writings of Josephus. Those are pretty interesting too. However the early church didn’t spread via the sword, it spread through the blood of martyrs. Most of the time, adventures didn’t happen and there was no earthly glory to be had.

If we fast forward to the Reformation, the battle for the church wasn’t truly on the field of battle. It was in the pulpits and universities. It was Luther standing up before a religious court and challenging them to find something that he wrote that went against the Bible alone. (Sola scriptura.)

All that to say this: If you played FOHB and came in to expect low fantasy adventure with politics and land management, you are going to receive a rude shock. So again, I feel like I understand where @chrisbat is coming from.

Now, do not get me wrong. I am not writing this to crucify Teo in any way. We discussed the issues that I encountered way back when and I will read the updated demo when it comes out to see how I feel at that point. Frankly, I want him to succeed but I am carefully watching his portrayal of the Church. (Before anyone jumps on me, yes I am aware that abuse can and does exist in cloisters. However I want to see that both sides of the religious coin are represented fairly.)

So can we stop sabre rattling and just wait to see a more fleshed out demo?


#226

Now now lad, come on. The game isn’t even out yet, let us play through first before getting all wind-up about it, all of us, don’t you think ?
I was surprised about the gender lock as well and of course concerns are normal but you should at the very least give it a chance. The story has potential, and we’re finally back to Norwall. Let’s see how Teo handles it.


#228

Please don’t inquire about update dates, times or schedules. It is against forum rules. The reason is that it puts undue pressure on some writers.


#229

@Goshman In the demo the 5th Earl say’s the MC and her twin are his only surviving children with his wife. Does this mean the Earl and his wife had other children that either died in childhood or infancy?

Also if the MC from the last game was biggest investor outside the royal coffers in building of the new royal city, will it come up in this or later games? As the MC and his descendants will probably own a good part of Thurstowe.


#230

This is going to be great, good luck Theo, i was waiting for this too much


#231

@Goshman
Will we get to witness some of the drama of the Tudor-equivalent court? Or become Lord High Chancellor?


#232

Does anyone still have a guide for FoHB?


#233

At first I was slightly upset at this new entry being gender locked (as I was with the first) yet now after playing through the demo and taking time to think on the situation, I actually appreciate why it was done. My only remaining initial concern is that due to the controlling nature of the clergy , too much of the game may be the MC being pushed around with no real choice…Still totally gonna buy it tho no lie XD.


#234

My friend the clergy where historical in the west one of the Big avenue to power.