Vendetta: Rise of a Gangster -- Reinvented

gender-choice
historical-fiction
adult-fiction

#648

Aside from the fact that I really don’t look good in a hero costume (don’t ask – it’s too embarrassing to even think about! :grin:), I should probably qualify my position on the “one remaining option = railroaded” statement.

While I do think this is true in most situations (that one I mentioned in the Donna scene being a case in point) I can however envisage some situations where it wouldn’t necessarily apply, such as maybe something specifically background-related. That said, I do think that even in those very specific types of situations, it behooves us as Choice Game authors to try and come up with additional, perhaps more-general options as well, simply to avoid the “one-option-only-remaining” situations, as they really don’t suit a Choice Game. Too many of those in a single game / along the same path definitely tend to leave me feeling railroaded, and so unwilling to replay, which is surely never a good thing.

The old version of Vendetta is particularly harsh with these early “object lessons” – i.e. situations designed / intended to really make you think about the possible consequences of your actions – and thereby help you avoid similar outcomes later in the story.

Things have been slightly toned down in the new version (and now there is also the ‘Take it Easy’ overall Game Difficulty Setting if being harshly punished for dumb decisions is just extremely annoying to you!), but some of the “object lessons” remain as they do serve a purpose – in encouraging the player to be more careful, and to actually think about each decision they make and the possible or even most likely consequences of that action.

It’s also worth bearing in mind that if there had to be an “escape route” for every dumb decision, I’d never get this thing finished! :wink:


#649

Of course some times player has to be conducted to maintain a engaging storyline. you can’t branch forever. However, There is several ways to do it t one more subtle than others. Okay Maybe I have to go to x interview. Author could rudely put no choice and Say YOU WILL GO DEAL WITH IT.
or could put small fake choices that makes replay value and story better give a chance to have an array of reasons with few lines. Like I go because I need a job… Or I go trying to steal the office when I worked there etc…
Still only one result going to a jon interview but player wise experience is very different


#650

Oh i see… that was fun actually :smile:


#651

Well I simply knew that in the old demo/beta she got the best in-game benefits as she makes one business vastly more profitable to the point where those 30 dollars a week our mc pays her and Lious’ raise become non-issues. On the other hand if in the new setup Felipe can actually join my mc’s gang and come with his own benefits the choice would get a lot tougher and my mc would naturally gravitate towards the cutie as he isn’t much into teenage girls. :wink:
Apparently he also has some interesting connections with Adamo. So that would be a plus for me too.


#652

I am totally with you about Felipe he could be perfect In my cabaret


#653

I was more thinking of potentially making Felipe the manager of the Adelphi club racket once Adamo is hopefully too busy with his own design studio and garment factory to run them both. Particularly since those two seem like they might work well together.


#654

NEW POLLFavorite Scenes / Sequences

For this poll I’ve broken down Chapter One into eighteen distinct parts, listed roughly in the order each appears in the current Public Demo. Partly curiosity, partly a bit of fun, but mostly I’m especially interested in seeing if we can identify which of these scenes / sequences had the biggest impact on the largest number of people, to identify any necessary tweaks / editing and, above all, to help guide overall future development.

No cheating! — pick your own favorite(s) before viewing the results. :smiley:

As always, if you’d care to elaborate on why a particular scene struck a certain chord with you, I’d certainly appreciate the insight. Even just Liking another person’s comment (if you agree with their assessment) is a great way to submit useful feedback. Many thanks.

Please choose up to FIVE of the following:

  • Dream-memory ‘flashback’ as a teenage Hellion on the streets.
  • City Morgue / meeting Nick Morello / identifying Gina’s body.
  • Leaving Nick Morello’s apartment / encountering Tony ‘The Tail’.
  • Joining Dino & Emilio Zaganis in their Factory Payroll Stickup.
  • Encountering Vinnie Mangano at the Diner / Truck Hijacking.
  • Visiting Chuck’s Place / meeting Uncle Luigi / Cap’n Jack Travis.
  • Lawyer Cesare Gaspone / Louis Campanini at the Pool Hall.
  • Meeting Salvatore Panzarelli / trying to sell him the Pool Hall.
  • Sireno Pacelli — choosing ‘Spider’ McGeeghan or Pete Rossi.
  • Rosie Mallory the Streetwalker / Nick Morello at Greasy Joe’s.
  • Hellions Revenge sequence — “This is personal…” shootout.
  • Hellions Revenge sequence — Rabble-rousing gang attack.
  • Hellions Revenge sequence — Ask Rosie Mallory for a favor.
  • The Barbershop — teaching ‘Smelly Guy’ a hard lesson.
  • The Bathhouse — meeting Monique / Carina / Lucinda / Felipe.
  • The Tailors — meeting Adamo Ruggerio / buying a new suit.
  • The Diner — meeting Donna / Old Ma Gioverdi / ‘Cigar Guy’.
  • Gina’s Funeral / ‘Reflections’ / Chapter Summary & Stats.

0 voters


#655

I do have one remark while I do like the Nick Morrello at Greasy Joe’s scene I don’t like how rough my mc is with poor Rosie in the streetwalker scene, which is why based on my possibly outdated knowledge I just couldn’t vote for it.
The factory payroll heist just misses the mark, but it would have been no. 6 in my list of faves.


#656

I don’t vote for any scene @Vendetta because that would mean observed the scenes as a metagamer Separate from the flow of the story. In a linear story scenes are what they are , so you could ranking them. In a rpg or a choice game. No It depends entirely on the characters background and stats a scene could be great for x and barely have content for Y.

I agree with @idonotlikeusernames That scene feels wrong . Even if I have to admit any scene with high coglioni and intimidating is pretty much nasty as should be for setting still not the way I want play A soft more cynical and cold ganster should be cool


#657

There should be a choice for how to respond to her before. I personally was fine with it because I hate very few characters, but Rosie managed to do it quite easily. As soon as a kill option comes I’m taking and the rest of the woman will probably be safer with her gone anyway.
For the people who liked her though, it was unnecessarily rough.


#658

Meeting Rosie is always one of my favourite scene, she is such a cool character and a childhood friend.
So far no one like to sell pool hall, that’s good


#659

I’m not sure if the complaints are before you pick the “She thinks that was rough?” thing, if so I have no issue and completely support the sentiment. But if it’s after, I’d like to point out some of us, namely myself, tend to roleplay as very unstable and violent MCs that don’t like to be disturbed or obstructed, especially while on important tasks pertaining to their sister’s bloody murder. My MC really likes Rosie but that really wasn’t a time to test their rather thin patience.

Mere threats and menacing looks when crossed are how my MC shows he thinks you’re exceptionally swell.

…I have a disturbing habit for role-playing as completely unsympathetic CoG protagonists…

They range from amoral, backstabbing psychopaths to surly and vicious asshats. The latter are usually the better ones. Michael Terranova’s something of an in-between.


#660

Of course different strokes for different folks and it does sort of fit for my union organizer as he’s more gruff and rough around the edges too.
Whereas my college boy gets even snarkier when in a bad mood and my political bagman is the most restrained of the lot, at least in public (I imagine the guy has some boxing gloves and a sandbag at home to blow off steam in private).

Point is as currently written it does not fit Vendetta’s otherwise remarkably broad options usually given to us in how we have our mc’s react to things.


#661

My five favorite scsnes, in no particular order:

Atty. Cesare Gasponse / Louis Campanini at the Pool Hall

The business is passive income, so I’d really like to improve that. We already’ve a manager too. What’s not to like?

Hellions Revenge Sequence - Rabble-rousing Gang Attack

This is my preferred method for avenging Billy; plus, I get to work with other people. I don’t prefer the other options (Single-handedly killing the ex-Dead Rabbits requires a too high Firearms skill, and I’d rather not shoot some random innocent civillian; sending O’Hara to jail, while satisfying, makes me think as if his powerful friends could get him out again), but the other options are fine, as my goal is to avenge Billy.

Joining Dino and Emilio Zaganis in their Factory Payroll setup

I tend to go 50-50 on this to avoid raising suspicion (can’t avenge Gina if I’m incarcerated) but the cut is just too damn high, and I like the feeling of getting the security guard’s uniform and bluffing the van guards. I also can’t help feel that I’ve not seen the last of the Zaganis cousins, and I look forward to being the brains of their operations.

Sireno Pacelli - choosing “Spider” McGeeghan or Pete Rossi

The Ginelli mob are the toughest local outfit, are they not? I feel as if, whether we like it or not, an all-out gang war between the O’Flaherty mob and the Ginelli mob would be an event. In such an eventuality, I’d prefer joining the better gang (plus, they’re Italians and my MC is Italian), which is the Ginelli mob. Also, I want Pacelli to pay his loan.

The Diner - Meeting Donna / Old Ma Gioverdi / ‘Cigar Guy’

I like Donna. Also, as a business student, I think my College Graduate and her would get along quite well.


#662

As @Vendetta point out to my post earlier , although there were sufficient choices regarding our cause of actions within the story, Vendetta clearly has his own vision on how the flow of story to be… even though some may prefer a more violent approach towards Rosie , the scene is similar to why i can’t wait for the police or refuse Dino’s substance … if there are too many “routes” or branches to appeal to everyone’s taste , Vendetta may never finish his story at all :slight_smile:


#663

Thanks guys – at least we’ve picked up on one thing deserving of another look!

On reflection, I do appreciate how it can seem, even allowing for the fact that (as our MC is perceptive enough to note) it’s mostly just an overreaction / act on Rosie’s part, having learned long ago that the sooner she pretends to be in actual pain, the sooner most guys ease up… As for those who don’t – well, that’s what the razor is for.

It seems what we’re really talking about here are those who really don’t see their MC doing even so much as tightening their grip on her wrists out of frustration, when she insists on playing her “games” instead of immediately telling you how to find Nick Morello despite the obvious urgency. That about sum it up?

How about if it went on your Mentality stat instead? Granted, at this early stage in the game it will still be mostly in line with that of your chosen Background (as there will have been only a few opportunities so far to adjust this to suit your roleplay to date), but it does mean that those playing generally “nicer” roles would act accordingly and not even maintain their grip on her wrists / cause her to overreact initially.

Thoughts?


#664

Well i agree each person has different perception and reaction, for my MC it is ok … even though i would most probably allow Rosie to hug me because i am not aware she is going to rob me

If given a choice, i would said "err … what are you doing ? I am asking you a favour here "


#665

I think it’s fine as is. If you wanted to add another “nicer” option I would definitely have it effect mentality though.


#666

Okay, as a pure role-player My personal opinion is just let me choose between the two possibilities and use the data accordingly. That is better than ASSUME in base of background. Maybe i want to be a x black hand that try redemption. Assuming is bad in something as big as temper


#667

It’s an interesting point as one of the longer-term (and perhaps, controversial?) purposes of the Mentality stat is to make precisely that sort of assumption… though granted, the Rosie scene is earlier in the game than it was intended to be used, since at that point it’s still mostly Background-related (e.g. a Black Widow is the closest to ‘Stone Killer’ at the start, and a Veteran Nurse is closest to ‘Good Samaritan’ – both for very obvious reasons), not something your own MC would yet have changed much in either direction.

It’s all about flavor narrative, for deeper immersion. Mentality keeps track of how you’ve roleplayed to date (which is precisely your point, I believe) so is better able to describe situations and encounters in keeping with your character, rather than everything having to be a choice basically amounting to “How do you feel about this?” (or similar).

Opinions appreciated, folks. Is aiming for this level of assumption / immersion really such a bad thing? If so, it’s not too late to change tack and confine Mentality use to just its other two main purposes (determining the type of options available in specific circumstances, and affecting the thoughts and feelings of those closest to you).