Also, just piggybacking off of the comments where people appear upset about the Chinese languages being used. It never even occurred to me to Google translate the characters as that it is not what most people do IRL. Having worked and lived in multi-ethnic communities for a lot of my adult life, there have been plenty of times when I do not understand the languages the people are always speaking. I certainly would not go hold my phone up to them and ask them to repeat themselves into my translator when they were not even speaking to me. And if you notice, when they are not speaking English, they are speaking towards other characters who do speak and understand that language. That is real life. That is full immersion. And something I truly enjoyed and appreciated in this story.
Furthermore, I have had plenty of romantic interests in COG and HG stories that didn’t work out the way I had intended. Sometimes, it was the writing. Sometimes, it was because I made poor choices. Here, the author has made specific choices based on the character development and cultural background of those characters. It’s vital to the story. Again, just as in real life, romance does not always work out. Relationships are not easy and not wrapped up in one big present for us to live happily ever after. While it’s nice to have some cheesy, happy romance stories from time to time, it’s equally nice to have a refreshing and realistic take on the subject as well. It is fine if the story is not to a reader’s liking, but that speaks more about the reader and their personal taste levels rather than the writing and the author’s intent.
The thing is, you aren’t really supposed to look up the untranslated dialogue. The point is not for you to understand what’s being said, the point is for you to experience how it feels to be somewhere you don’t speak the language. The point is that your character doesn’t understand what any of these people are saying, and has to rely on their ability to communicate with each other to get where they need to go. Anything you absolutely need to know will either be translated for you by a character who speaks English or evident from the context.
Even if you do decide to go back and look up the dialogue afterwards, I highly recommend not doing so on your first playthrough, keeping in mind that the discomfort you feel about not understanding exactly what people are saying is exactly what the author wanted you to feel.
And if you’re playing as a character who doesn’t know Chinese, you’ll see very little untranslated dialogue after making that choice, because most of the people you’ll deal with know at least enough English to get by, and will speak it to accommodate you.
For me personally I cannot read a story that has untranslated dialog with out immediately looking up the English meaning.
It becomes a big distraction for me if I do not know what is being said, to the point that I cannot finish the story. It’s just how my brain is wired.
it’s a curse of being extremely curious and wanting to know immediately what stuff means paired with having the attention span of a gnat.
Unfortunately for me that is as impossible as changing my skin color from extremely pale to the point that I get sunburned just driving in the car during the summer to a nice shade of purple with white polka dots.
Thought it would be really cool if I could.
To me there is nothing wrong with someone looking up untranslated dialog as they read the story if it helps them understand the story better.
Just as there is nothing wrong with not looking up untranslated dialog until after their first play-through as you recommended. Though I envy the willpower to be able to do that.
Do whatever works best for you.
There isn’t any right or wrong way to read the story.
I don’t have a horse in this race, so take this as you will, but now I’m wondering - if the point is you don’t understand what’s being said, why is it written down in proper text? I mean, if I’m listening to people speaking language I don’t understand, I might recognize the language they speak (or that it vaguely resembles some language I recognize), I might even catch a word here or there, but I definitely wouldn’t be able to even start forming the actual shape of the words in general (let alone write it down), it’s just a stream of sounds (although sometimes that happens with languages I do know as well, if the speaker is talking too fast or pronouncing in a way I don’t understand, or my focus just plain slips). The narration could just note that the characters are talking in Chinese. Or, that’s what I think anyway.
There’s no one-size-fits-all, it depends on your language background. And your hearing.
Anyway, my point isn’t including proper pronounciation. There’s a significant difference between “X and Y are talking in [whatever language they’re using] that you don’t understand” and “X and Y are saying [the exact words] but you have no idea what that means”.
Also not arguing that’s what should happen, I’m just curious as to what the logic is.
I believe someone had recommended including the English translation in the story in another thread but the author decided against it.
It would be kinda neat if a pronunciation guide had been included so we could know what the words sound like.
My using google translation early didn’t work out to well
So if someone who is better able to translate the Chinese characters into what they would sound like to a non-native listener it could add more immersion to the story.
That makes sense regarding no one size fits all and how it depends on your language background and hearing.
Regarding proper pronunciation i wasn’t trying to imply that was one of the points you were making, it was just an idea I had. Sorry if it can across like that.
I’m actually a huge language nerd, so I look up untranslated dialogue all the time, and usually not just by running it through Google Translate. I absolutely understand where you’re coming from. That doesn’t change the point that looking up all the dialogue is not what the author intended. If you want to look it up, fine - I’ve looked up some of it myself. Or it may just be that this isn’t the game for you, which is also fine. (There are some works of art that I can’t fully enjoy either because of the way my brain works, that I wish I could. I do think it’s only fair to point out that there are valid reasons behind a stylistic choice, which we can understand and respect even if we can’t appreciate them.)
@LiliArch - I believe the reason it’s included in “proper text” is to double down on the feeling that these people are engaging in verbal communication from which you are excluded. Simply knowing the characters are speaking Chinese probably wouldn’t make a reader uncomfortable, in the way it’s uncomfortable watching two people carry on a conversation relevant to you without you being able to understand. Having your reading experience interrupted with foreign characters comes a lot closer.
Ah, that makes sense. (“Proper text” probably was not the best choice of words here, but it was the closest I could come up with at that point - sometimes descriptions like “written out in full dialogue format” escape me.)
Google translate definitely isn’t the best method of translating dialog into another language.
I use my iPhone to read choice of game and hosted game stories and I didn’t really have time to dig around the internet to find a better translator so it I used what I had which was google translate. Again not the ideal translator.
If you know of a website that is good at translating dialog accurately please let know and I will bookmark it for future use.
Others have said it more succinctly but, as spoiler free as I can be; if you don’t like rug pull romances or forced, toxic, poly paths, this game will not be for you. Your enjoyment will largely depend on how much you can tolerate the toxic character that is completely shoved on you. Your characters agency, especially how they feel about aforementioned character, is largely non existent. But the food sections and weaving of Chinese mythos was like…. Nice at least?
I think it goes without saying you wouldn’t google translate something in real life, however this is not real life this is a role playing game.
So I played through this game a couple times one where my character couldn’t understand Chinese at all one where they could speak it but only read pinyin and one where they could speak and read it. I figured I’d just google translate what I couldn’t understand.
And thats my point really that from a role-playing perspective you are penalised for not understanding the language.
On the topic of ROs I didn’t like how the routes were handled because it seemed to push you towards one option and punish you when you didn’t choose them. But I guess this is really about personal taste.
My Anglophone background is already catered to by every CoG. This game doing something different with language is interesting and refreshing to me - it gives players who speak Chinese in real life the chance to engage with it as linguistic insiders. Yes: if you don’t understand Chinese in real life and you tell the game you understand it, you’ll be lost. But there’s the option to play as someone who only speaks English.
I’ve played some of the game as someone who doesn’t speak Chinese, and enjoyed it. It felt immersive, and the friction feels true to the situation. It would be weirder to gloss over the fact that my character’s an outsider.
I’m curious about the relationships but haven’t played enough to speak with much knowledge as I’ve only met them briefly, and have avoided spoilers. I’m always interested in interactive relationships that don’t always go the way a player or MC might want, though; it also interests me seeing how they’re received by the player base.
I get what you’re saying but the point I was trying to make is that from a role playing perspective if you the player can’t understand chinsese it stops you from playing as character that can. That’s really hard to see as any thing but a penalty.
Yeah it would be really weird to gloss over the fact that you’re character is an outsider but the option is there to speak and understand chinese but if you can’t do that than you’re basically only have one option. Which is kind of a draw back when the main selling point of these games is the fact that you have multiple options to choose from
I think the problem (insofar as there is one) with the way language is handled in this game is the fact that it is not advertised as an experience that can only be fully enjoyed with an understanding of Chinese. People buying a CoG do not expect to be shut out of part of the product because due to whatever reasons in their real life, they did not choose to learn Chinese.
I don’t think the author did something wrong. There is value in rebelling against the assumption that a game should go out of its way to make us comfortable in a foreign culture when we did not do the necessary work to understand it in real life, but at the same time, I don’t think that’s what many of us are here for.
I can understand why people might feel a little cheated. They expected that if there was an option to play as an insider, as Hannah puts it, it would not be circumscribed by their actual status as insider or outsider in real life. I wouldn’t call that an unreasonable expectation, considering that no other CoG does this (at least, not intentionally).
Personally, my feelings on the topic are mixed. As an individual with Chinese heritage but a grievously imperfect command of the language, I do feel wounded by the fact that my inadequacies as a member of a culture I belong to in many ways extend even inside a game I might play for fun. On the other hand, perhaps I don’t deserve that kind of pass. Maybe the only way to appreciate the kind of Chineseness this game wants to convey is to speak and be literate in the language to the requisite degree, and if that is so, then I can’t really argue against that.
Honestly, I don’t see how people are feeling forced into a romantic relationship with any of the characters. That’s not something I experienced at all. In fact, considering the backstory of the character I’ve seen the most complaints about, she actually shows tremendous restraint. Interestingly, I’ve probably seen the fewest complaints in connection with the character I least liked having to interact with.
@lil_g - That’s why I think it should be reframed as an option for the player, not a character customization option. I think of it more like not being able to take a second-year class unless I’ve taken the prerequisite. It’s not that I’m being punished by not getting to take the class I want, it’s that that class is for people who are at a level I’m not.
@FabricSeat and everyone else - If I understand correctly, you’re not actually missing out on content. If there were an option to play as a Chinese-speaker but get dialogue in English, it would be pretty much the same as the English dialogue now. The only differences between what you read in English and what someone else would read in Chinese is the kind of linguistic nuance that doesn’t really translate anyway.
I haven’t played the whole game yet, but from the demo, this does not appear to me to be the case. The characters in the story (and the narrative) do try to make allowances for the fact that the main character and presumably the player cannot understand the things they say in Chinese (if that option was chosen), but some conversations are different if the characters are not accommodating a non-Chinese-speaker.
It is not a huge issue either way, as the story is still written to be comprehensible to someone who knows only English, but are things to miss out on.
The things in the first few chapters that are in Chinese no matter what aren’t important to the story. You can figure out in context that your driver is asking A’Li for directions; you’re not missing out on anything by not knowing exactly what they’re saying.
I’m talking specifically about things that appear in Chinese only if you select the option that your character speaks Chinese, and otherwise appear in English.
Those bits are different too. For example, if you tell A’li that you are literate in logographic Chinese, he says something different to you from if you can speak it but are only literate in Pinyin or if you don’t know it at all, and the latter two options are different from each other too. Other conversations have their own bits that only seem to appear if you have them in the full Chinese.
Moreover, there are things here and there that simply aren’t translated from the logographic Chinese.
Of course, as you say, nothing critical to understanding is gated behind an knowledge of Chinese. I think people might be more upset if that was the case. Still, I don’t think what some are having a problem with is that they can’t figure out what is going on. They just don’t like that if they want to fully experience certain aspects of the game, they are required to be literate in Chinese logograms or actively translate for themselves. In that sense, something is missed out on.
