Samurai of Hyuga Book 3 (Patreon/Early Access info on Post 1297!)

My feelings on Junko put very succinctly by the ever wise Uncle Iroh:

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Words of a wise man…

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@MultipleChoice I AM SO EXCITED FOR THIS. I am so excited that I literally can’t say anything else other than I’m excited. Ever since the first book, I have been eagerly anticipating everything you brought up between MC and Jun.

Also of note: Devon, keep writing for you. Your vision, your story. You don’t owe anyone else anything.

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Exactly author’s word is god…or something just as cool. We are all just along for the ride. The fact the story is as good as it is, leaves little doubt it will continue to be awesome.:grinning:

Whoa I have X-ray vision! I can see through spoilers! :sunglasses:

I finally got to play this book, and I gotta say, it’s kinda…disjointed and a bit anticlimactic. Here’s what I mean:

The first book had a great pace. They introduced the characters, the current and future stakes, and you did kill the first demon by the end.

Come the second book, and most of it focused on the shogi tournament, while the confrontation with the demon is saved for the third book.

Come the third book, and the murder mystery plot ends halfway through the book and it immediately shifts into Seven Samurai with only half a book’s worth of wiggle room, and the climax of said plot is, well, anticlimactic. You’d think a tengu war general would put up a better fight than a trickster kitsune, but the MC just went up to him and cut him up, while the fight with the previous demon feels more climactic, what with confronting their old sensei.

I guess some good came out of this. Toshio/e romance, a nice callback to when Masami/shi threw the money at us, and a hook where we may confront Jun/ko one more time. Here’s hoping for Jun/ko’s redemption, and Momoko’s return.

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The climax for me was the battle with the kitsune rather than the tengu part. I think the third book also provide insight that our Ronin could not always save everyone, which the author want to drive home to reader. :thinking:

To be honest, I have to agree with you with some of your points though… I suppose the first part of Book Three should have put on Book Two and then start our journey for Book Three should have been the village and confrontation with Tengu.

I still look forward to Book Four though. =D

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@GeminiSparkSP
One thing I want to stress to readers is that the demon-of-the-day is not always going to be the focus of the narrative. That’s why for Book 3 I really didn’t want to end it on another boss battle. I wanted the final battle to deal with the responsibility of being a leader and experiencing tragic loss. Ige’s sacrifice becomes a means for MC to get close enough to kill General Shatao (who is blinded to this danger out of pride).

An author also has to be very aware of combat fatigue–and Book 3 has more fights and rough encounters than the first two books combined. I think many readers were intellectually and emotionally spent towards the end, so adding yet another fight didn’t feel like the way to go.

@Everyone
On Book 3’s Ending in General:
I feel the need to pat myself on the back for bravery! The reality is that it’s an absolute risk for a writer to end a book on a downer. I have a young audience who has to wait over a year for the sequel, and (intentionally) upsetting them for that long is a great recipe for 1-stars on Google Play! But the middle of the series is the ideal spot to put the hero at his or her lowest.

This is the False Collapse, and this de-evolution is absolutely necessary for MC’s growth.

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So…I guess we won’t get any further clarifications to the concerns that @Celtic_Rune rised besides my own about the way femininity and masculinity will get addressed in book 4.

Just asking because I (and pretty sure others too) feel not reassured in any way and the fear that if gender gets adressed that it will be in a very reductive way is really something I would wish to set aside concerning a series that until now I really held in high regards.

No, really it bugs me, that we don’t get any answers that show that the concerns are seen, understood and taken into account.

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@MultipleChoice
I would like to first state that I am a huge fan of the first Samurai of Hyuga, it was one of my first choicescript stories to read and it got me into writing after a while of staying away from it. For that I thank you. I am also not in the camp of forcing people to change their writing because they dont agree with the writers views, I believe in an open environment for discussions of issues from all sides.

However I am curious to hear a response to Celtic Rune’s concerns, especially their closing paragraph. The reason I would like to hear a response to the concern that readers will be forced to adopt certain traits, not because I personally care about my character being forced into a role, but because I feel that if you are going to do it. “Because I do what I want for me.” Is not a good thing to hear of a story with choices. Any idea or game or story should be able to withstand critiques and scrutiny, especially if it is worth something.

Also the likes on celtics comment show they are not alone in this worry.

I have no issue with you writing for yourself, but I feel if anyone expresses truths or views they should be willing to at least explain them so if nothing else people can “agree to disagree.”

Either way I thank you for your time in reading if you’ve read this far haha. Enjoy the rest of yalls day.

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Oh hey, didn’t expect the author to reply directly. I’m honored.

Anyways, speaking of narrative focus, it’s something the third book kinda lacks. You promised us a murder mystery, but it lasts only half a book before you decided to give us Seven Samurai and wrap it up as well. When you promised your third book to be a murder mystery, I expected you to follow through to the end.

Come to think about it, I wouldn’t even mind if the second book was all about the shogi tournament itself while the demon was barely mentioned (if at all), and it ends on the crew sailing to the island. That way, there’s enough material for a proper murder mystery in the third book. Save Shatao and Seven Samurai for another book.

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@Sammysam @spytim @Celtic_Rune
Celtic made some valid points and I apologize for not addressing them directly. Thank you for reposting them for my attention. I also want to make clear that I don’t want this thread to derail, and gender dynamics is such a heated issue that the risk is real. That doesn’t mean the concerns aren’t valid, only that for further discussion I humbly ask you to PM me as this is a thread for Book 3.

When I mentioned writing based on my truth and perceptions, I also meant that I can’t reassure anyone of anything. I have no idea how anyone is going to perceive my writing. As spytim said, it’s entirely possible we may have an “agree to disagree situation”.

With that in mind, I’ll try to address Celtic’s concerns. Masculinity and feminity have profound differences, and a feminine Jun would be entirely different than a masculine Jun. A feminine Junko would be entirely different than a masculine Junko. I can’t create four huge personality branches and do them all justice. This may be where we have different opinions, but I believe that the feminimity-masculinity difference is that huge.

The solution is to cut down into what I understand best and what the majority of my audience wants.

That means masculine Jun and feminine Junko. Which means MC’s feminimity will come out with Jun and his/her masculinity will come out with Junko. The reality is, a TON of female readers who are attracted to men will play as a gay male character. The reality also is, a TON of male readers who are attracted to women will play as a lesbian female character. Female readers playing gay men are going to react better with a feminine MC. Male readers playing lesbian women are going to react better with a masculine MC.

So there is a group that is going to feel a disconnect: feminine lesbian readers and masculine gay readers. To them I have to say I’m trying to write my best, but I’m not going to lie and say I’m able to satisfy something as complex as romance to my awesome diversity of readers. That’s not careless wording, that’s entirely on me.

As for Celtic’s opinions on masculinity, what’s toxic, patriarchical gender roles, and the dynamic of relationships in general, those are all valid opinions. I have my own, and while we don’t match up entirely due to our different truths and perceptions, I really think I’m going to be able to be respectful, and that MC’s growth will be done well. Hopefully you’ll end up agreeing with me!

@GeminiSparkSP
Book 3 is actually two stories, and you’ve identified them well. I wrote this book with two complete premise lines in mind: one for the island mystery and one for the student training village. I’ll write up a blog post on it for more detail in the future. As for the murder mystery, it’s really a matter of your mileage may vary: there are several investigations, interrogations, chase scenes and even courtroom drama.

Also keep in mind that there are some readers who don’t care about the mystery aspects whatsoever, so I think a book solely devoted to it would be pushing it with my general audience.

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I do indeed disagree with a lot of what you’re saying here, most notably your decision to write gay relationships as fanservice for straight people rather than with your (existing) gay audience in mind, but this is ultimately your decision as an author. It is unfortunately a clear sign for me that, despite how much I liked the first SoH books, the rest of the series will not be for me.

I hope you manage to tell the story you want to tell, but it’s not a story I will be reading.

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While I did enjoy the murder investigation I’m not sure I wanted a whole book dedicated to it. Not only would it have been a huge genre shift, which could have been a big turn off for a lot of people, I also can’t deny that by the end of it I was itching to get out of that damned island - almost as much as my ronin.

It made sense since reality was becoming more and more distorted and by the end, the dream-like feel was suffocating. I think that was what the author was going for, because the very next chapter when our character takes a big breath of fresh, clean air, I took a similarly relieved sigh of breath with her.

I feel the same way about the shogi tournament. Clever and entertaining but to drag it on would have been a disservice. For me, anyway.

But I do get when you said the ending was anticlimactic. Battling the fox demon definitely felt more epic than the general because for me slaying the general wasn’t about a big physical fight nor our ability with a katana. It was a different kind of fight, where our ronin witnesses their students struggle - and they can’t do anything about it. Especially the scene where Ige dies. The first time I read it I could barely breathe, I was so tense.

So it actually ended up being more climactic for me, because I felt like the stakes were higher. But I get that’s probably more of a personal preference thing :sweat_smile:.

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Originally I was going to butt in with a question about how hard would it be to code a masculine path and a feminine path, and allow the reader to choose, but scratch that. I’d like to address this.

I’d just like to say one thing - if you think that just feminine lesbians and masculine gay men are going to feel uncomfortable with this, I think you’re very off-base. I’m a queer person, and what you just wrote comes across as a fancy way of equating gay men with women and lesbians with men. Which I hope wasn’t what you meant to do, but that’s how it comes across. Especially since (forgive me if I come off as aggressive in this sentence, I’ve thought about how to word this for over an hour but I’m still rather aggravated) you’re prioritising making straight players playing as minorities comfortable over, well, doing something that shows you care about the groups you’re representing.

It’s also interesting that you mention you were pushing people’s comfort zones in how you ended Book 3, and I thought for a second you would extend that to straight players playing as minorities, but I suppose that’s irrelevant now. You’re the author and it’s your series, but I’ll no longer be reading it.

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I have to disagree with this part. The shogi tournament was only a part of the whole kitsune arc so dragging it out might make it too boring for some readers. In regards to the mansion part, I like murder mysteries no question but dragging it out might be a bit too much and
I noticed that some don’t appreciate the genre shift as well. Although I did say, that making Book Three solely about the tengu arc would be good but only if the boss fight would be different though.

It quite sad to see that some will leave SoH due to what Devon said but I hope some of their fears might be unfounded. It quite a wishful thinking as much as a writer wants to please everyone, it is quite impossible to do without sacrificing something. =(

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I’m afraid I must agree with @Celtic_Rune. I’m a straight female player, and I really dislike the idea of feminity being forced on my character because I choosed to show interest on males.

One of the things I loved about SoH is how our Ronin doesn’t behave differently upon your gender choice, and still feel natural in their interaction with their rest. But now I know feminity is going to be smashed in my face like it or not unless I play a lesbian character or a male MC, I can’t help but feel terribly disappointed.

I wish you the best of luck with he future of SoH, but this is a series that for me, ends here.

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I wonder if some those who view what Devon said as a dealbreaker still consider trying out the fourth book before passing judgement?

@Sammysam I remember you are considering buying the fourth one before you will call it quits or not? Or does this change your mind?

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I will wait for a demo. And then I will wait for reviews, but I am for sure not buying instantly as I did with the others.

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I was considering trying out the demo. And I still will, but by now it’s more seeing if the demo convinves me to put my money into it, because right now, I’m really turned off from continuing reading this series.

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