New game! Grand Academy II: Attack of the Sequel -- Seize destiny at our evil preparatory school!

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I am going to begin by saying that the Attack of the Sequel convinced me to actually read the first game. I buy every game in the libraries here to support the authors, no matter what.

With that said, I was convinced by playing the Attack of the Sequel to go back and play the first game. And I was able to enjoy the first book by knowing where the second went prior to playing it.

I also was expecting the ending of the second to foreshadow the publication of the third, so it is my belief that the second game was a resounding success.

What this also means is that the first game had some structural decisions made in it that I know would have disappointed me if I had read it first and the Attack of the Sequel second as intended.

The retcon of stats is one such structural issue that would have been of concern if I had read these games in proper order.

The issue of the competing timelines being resolved the way it was in order to advance the main narrative arc of the second game is one that I understand but I do think it could have been executed a bit differently …

The entire series premise is about training antagonists how to survive the writing process of an author and to become a destined character or at least a memorable character.

I think focusing on the fact that the villain survived the process of a “rewrite” of the story and such a strong antagonist was able to make the transition from a failed alpha/beta version of the story into the new and improved version would have worked better but this is all water under the bridge and not something to dwell upon going forward.

There are a couple of things that Mary was being cranky about (her words) that I want to express my views on.

Non-actionable feedback that is hurtful in addition to being false is feedback that should not be taken to heart. I am sorry it hurt when this was given as feedback; knowing how hard you and the rest of the staff works behind the curtain, I know for a fact there is no one “lazy” on staff … so, for that feedback to be actionable, the author herself would need to be “lazy”.

I, nor any consumer can be the judge of that, so, I have to rely on your judgement as to the validity of an author being “lazy” or not. It is clear that you do not think Katherine was lazy – so ultimately, the feedback given was non-actionable. (yes, I trust your judgement as to an author ‘being lazy’ @Mary_Duffy)

It hurts when these unjustified allegations are thrown out, but they should never be taken to heart.

This is where I think the changes need to be made when the discussion focuses on sequels.

It is my operating developmental practice to determine if there will be a sequel or not as the very first decision made about a project.

Any game decision made is going to be influenced by this decision and to not have made this at the very onset of game design and production will cause many issues down the road.

So, I would say that you should be planning the existence of a sequel (or lack of) from the very beginning of a game’s design.

Basing the existence of a sequel on a prior game’s success commercially or the status of an author as a first-time author under label is also a troubling practice to me.

I’ll give an example here – the Cantaberry Tales story.

It is my understanding that because this story was not as successful commercially as others, it is a game that will not be considered for a sequel. I would reconsider that position if it were up to me.

The entire genre the game is in is a weak commercial segment - this was pointed out several times in the past.

Yet, it is my experience that the fans of this genre are often starved for games that fill their needs and that by cultivating the fan base, a developer/publisher can turn a less productive single release into a growing and expanding series.

The Crusader Kings franchise by Paradox is a graphical example of this very thing.

If Paradox had solely based the decision of a sequel on the performance of the original release, they would never have experienced the breakout of the second installment which in became on their house’s greatest performers. The success of the second showed how building on the first can ensure the future success of sequels. The same principles can be applied to Canterbury Tales (imo) … I also would consider any sequel to this title to be part of a collection rather than part of a series. More on that distinguishment later.

I might be in the minority, but I don’t think of Cake and Ale as a sequel. It is set in the same world as Tally Ho! but is a standalone title. Srand alone titles that share a world are different animals than “series”.

Nancy Drew books, Sherlock Holmes and other such books are more of a collection and should not be directly compared to series like The Tolkien trilogy … trying to shoehorn them into the same category for comparison and contrast does both a disservice in my view.

ymmv.

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42

Thank you, all good food for thought.

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43

I played the game, and yes I liked it by I’m a bit disappointed. I understand why not every ending could be considered, I don’t understand why some of the old characters couldn’t come back, and why there is no ending where we go back to the old world. It feels like it ruined the ending of the previous game. And I loved that in the other game we could become heroes but in this we have to be villain (not necessarily villain “too evil” but still villain) and I didn’t notice option to become heroes again (it wouldn’t make sense for my character to become villain again after the previous game). I’m sorry to say this but maybe doing a direct sequel it’s not a good idea when you have to ignore the player choices so much. I repeat, I understand why it wouldn’t be possible to address every choice, but then doing another game in the same settings, with just some reference to the other one it would be better.

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44

How do I get RA? I’ve been trying for like 15 games now and I always either get “Your grades and extracurriculars mean you should get RA but the anti monster alumni don’t want you to” or “Yay! You got TA!” Please help I’m going mad

Edit: I would also like to mention I’ve tried play throughs where I don’t become a monster but do all the same things from the monster play throughs where I get message 1, but it just says I got TA

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45

I’m not sure how it carries over, if at all, but to get the RA distinction in GA1 you need to not qualify for a TA position and also have high social standing. If you qualify for a TA position, you can’t become an RA afaik

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Does anyone know how to control the army of clones?

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48

I largely get these games from Amazon why does it take a week from the initial release for people to play them?

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Because Amazon has the most opaque release process. When we submit a game, we have no idea how long it will take before the game is approved. Also, I don’t think there is any form of timed publishing, so once it’s approved it goes live. It can take up to 10 days, I believe, and we submit as far in advance as possible, while trying to hit the actual release date because we also don’t want a game released on one platform many days before its full release date.

Unfortunately Amazon is the red-headed stepchild platform for us, with the smallest number of users, and the most difficult to time publishing process.

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50

Will there be a third? Please be a third

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I think I can safely say after this week’s release that there won’t be a third. Maybe the team will discuss it and other folks will feel differently, but the reaction to the sequel has been very negative.

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Aww man. I loved the sequel, I thought it was one of the best choice of games sequels in a long time. Personally it’s probably just because I like playing as a villain and there’s little out there that lets me do that. I feel like some of the reasons it was perceived negatively was because it wasn’t designed to have a sequel. For the stats, as one example, you could either have everyone start out overpowered and make people mad that there wasn’t a challenge, or nerf the stats (like you did) and have them get mad that their stats where messed up. In addition, a lot of people where mad about the fact that you guys didn’t create 2 books in one, which in my opinion is completely unreasonable. Anyway, I hope you reconsider your decision to not have a third, as there’s a lot of classes I’ve read about for junior and senior year, and I really want my character to graduate.

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On the note of sequels not being well perceived:
I get the impression this happens more often with CoG titles than with HG…
And I think it’s cause, lbh, cog doesnt really let you continue your story.
Now, sure, there are ending from which you can’t continuem but looking at the sequels I played and the feedback for those I haven’t it’s usually this:
The game puts your character into a new situation that acknowledges what happened before in passing if at all.
Superlatives 2 was so obviously not written with any old protag in mind, and the less said about redemption & open season the better.

People are solely asking to be able to continue their story. And sure, that’s might be quite some work, but it’s perfectly possible. Other writers on here prove it.

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Sure. And I think, as I’ve pointed out that’s mostly because we don’t commission most games with sequels in mind.

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I think you might be onto something there @MeltingPenguins. This game is really not a continuation of the former games. The inter genre war is a completely new thematic, compared to the first game and the cast is mostly new.

The conflict of the first game and the result of it was mostly ignored.

Of the original cast only your mother and Aurion really has a presence (maybe the head too, but I didn’t really get much with it.) So it also felt like a new game - a new game which the orginal MC didn’t fit into.

I really think that if COGS wants to make series they should make the first game with a sequel in mind or the result are always going to be… messy.

Edit:

Now that I think about it, did anything actually carry over from the first game?

  • The stats were significantly reduced.
  • Most the relationships were meanigless as most of the cast dissapeared and for those who stayed the relationship seemed to be in suspension with only a line or two until we could get a new confirmation of our relationship status. (Here, I am thinking off both RO and your relationship with your mother. It seemed to be set back to a basic relationship.)
  • The commander/Minion thing were reduced to basically doesn’t matter. Maybe the nemesis thing carried over in a meaningfull way?

And, of course, there was the endings. But as said I am actually more forgiving off the ending because that would have been a big thing to change. It is the little things, which made the orginal character. (Such as stat and relationships.) which I really cannot forgive the game for retconning.

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Yes, but the moment a sequel gets greenlit, the first step should be to see how to continue the continuable ends.
I would say most here would agree that bringing all ends together at a plot-checkpoint and continue from there is enough.

An example: People felt Superlatives 2 turned their old character into someone else… and honestly, it did. It would maybe have worked better to have an additional prologue in 2 in which the old and new PC meet without the old one taking over, but things switching smoothly.

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…your PC in Shattered Worlds is the PC from Aetherfall. So it would have been better for it to have been an entirely new PC? I’m confused.

Anyway! Lesson firmly learned, and I promise never to edit another sequel that doesn’t pick up the next day. Unlike books or films, it’s not about the writing or spending more time in the same world when it comes to COG games.

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@Mary_Duffy

Nobody here speaks for everybody else. We are all just talking about where the game maybe felt a little flat for some of us, but it is no guraentee that it is a feeling shared by the majority. This is a very speacilized forum.

I know that the author did their best. I know it was an unwinnable situation. But that just not change the fact that I honestly, personally, just did not have a good time with the game.

And I think it is important to discuss because weak sequels seems to be a problem.

In my experience there are three things people really care about, when it comes to games:

  • Their RO. People generally really, really don’t like it if their RO gets taken from them.
  • Their stats. People generally don’t like seeing their hard work get reduced. Even if it might be necessary.
  • Any power/titles other goodies that they ‘won’ in the first game. This mean that if they say end up as ‘Master of the Universe’ they don’t like being reduced from their title. Even if it might be necessary for the story to even make sense.

Now as an author sometimes you have to do it. This will anger people, but that doesn’t mean that nobody will like it.

Also no, this is not the same as book and movies. Books and movies people can also get ridicules angry over if a sequel goes in a wrong direction (or changes anything), but in games like this people feel often feel a bigger ownership over the MC. Why shouldn’t they? The whole point of interactive fiction is that you can influence it.

I don’t want you to stop making sequel. But I do think you should think a little more about what kind of sequels you make and which games you make them to. Just because something is a bestseller it is not necessary that it was written in a way, that makes a sequel easy or even viable.

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I mean, I’ll be honest. I just did a playthrough where I quashed the hero uprising, romanced Aurion, made Aurion my nemesis, became a sea monster, and interned at Mac Conglomorate over the summer and all of those things were referenced correctly in the first two chapters of the game. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

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You picked the ending this games followed up on.

And the one charater who is actually there.

Also your romance was mentioned. Did it do anything? Because my carry over resulted in the my MC thinking that Aurion was cute, once or twice. It didn’t do anything else. We was basically reset to before the ball until the dating app entered the picture.

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@Mary_Duffy exactly! Everyone here is attacking the author and you but none of them are here writing a interactive novel without a sequel in mind and then having to adapt it into a sequel while also referencing as much as they can in the original and fit all this into the first 1-2 chapters

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