I’d like to add that there’s a big difference between the scenario described above, where the character who acted offensively acknowledged the wrongdoing, apologized, and changed their behavior, and one where a bigoted character’s positive attributes are implied to “make up for” their bigotry. Furthermore, note that Leliana made a mistake out of ignorance/never thinking about the fact that such a thing could be wrong, rather than malice; I.e., using a racial slur to insult someone, and that her action was a microagression rather than an act of physical or emotional violence (for example, the dangerous blood ritual Dorian’s father attempted); a character can do the former and still be sympathetic, the latter is not–that is, I don’t think less of Leliana for learning from her actions, but even if someone who did the latter type of thing eventually became less bigoted, I’ll still think poorly of them.
I was thinking about a comic I read a while ago about the experiences of a fundamentalist christian in college, which was also a kind of autobiography. And yes, there were some problematic situations with that but I think that the portray of the character as a symphathetic one worked because the author make her open minded and willing to reconsider her prejudices (it was also a comedy and the tone was usually lighthearted, I might be making it sound like a drama).
But that was a comic, so it’s not exactly the same experience as playing a game. However, I feel like i’m getting some interesting ideas from this discussion.
I was very upset about Dorian father situation like he almost erase the soul of his son… and then made so weak apologies. I totally decide go with dorian and let the bigot hanging on. Like he cames in secret to people don’t see him with his gay son. I sincerely think there should be a more efficient way to see him publicaly recognize your son or go away.
No, there aren’t, at least not for gay guys like me. Escape certainly does help, because it helps people like me keep mental health up. Really just like for straight people, escapism whether in a video game or a hugely expensive vacation on a gay cruise or gay-friendly resort allows us to get away from our daily grind, where we are still far too often reminded that we are in fact still viewed as a “deviant” minority in many parts of the world and by a sizeable portion of the public in most of our own countries too.
I sincerely hope your situation gets better for you soon and you can be the (gay) man you are out in public too.
That was a huge letdown for their gay fans, like me, almost like a middle finger the options were half-assed and the one gay exclusive guy feels like he just stepped out of a bad 90’s sitcom. 
It’s funny how “realism” in video (role-playing) games only seems to count when it comes to minority and particularly LGBTQ presentation, want to be a world-destroying badass 20 year old super-villain, go right ahead, expect to be able to romance cute guys as said super villain, whoa there buddy, hold your horses, gay guys are a super-tiny minority and having one RO out of 20 be a persuadable bi, guy would already be a huge deal for us!. 
All due respect Mara, but this is also false, many writers and journalist write and report about what they did not themselves experience. You can always do research, interview people and most often simply apologize and do better next time, whenever you make an honest mistake. I am part of the LGBTQ community and I still got chewed out by Laguz back in the day over how I used to refer to non-binary folks. Simply learn from it, incorporate the lessons and move on, that’s life too.
Exactly, that’s exactly the sort of thing that contributed to the good Samaritans of my grandfather’s time wanting to treat gay people humanely by treating them as merely mentally ill, instead of dangerous criminals. Which was still horrible and wrong.
Again a fair few straight writers on this site seem to pull it off well enough, Vendetta with Adamo seemed to be promising back in the day, our own @Havenstone handles the LGBTQ aspects well-enough thus far too, though I believe he wasn’t afraid to solicit additional help and input from this community and real-life both either. Evertree Inn and @ThomB do it quite well thus far too.
An explicit gay kickstarter game I backed a couple of years ago was largely written and developed by a straight woman too, again with input from the gay community. Again saying straight people cannot write or develop quality gay content, provided they are willing to dedicate the appropriate amount of time and resources to it disrespects our allies too.
I’m sorry, I didn’t think that was what I was saying. I did specifically say “without a lot of help”–I don’t think straight and cis people are incapable of writing from other perspectives, just that when handling sensitive issues it’s best to be done with input from the community you’re representing. I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying or really think what I said sounded like it was, just that straight and cis people shouldn’t assume that they’re writing us correctly–like you said, if they’re ready and willing to put the work forward to do a good portrayal, they probably can.
Well I am trying to do a portrait. But i am starting by a no realistic setting. And trying not assume everyone is heterosexual. That causes that several people accused me to force homosexuality on them
I mean situation is in your getting age ball and people says you going to a private part with a guy so people gossip about if you are a partner or so.
It’s same scene as any of genders. Well several males has saying that i am forcing them to see homosexuality.
I think that’s bigotry. It is a situation understandable and there is no love or anything. I try to be neutral and don’t suppose character love a x gender. That is difficult, all media assume pc is hetero and focus in boobs and that. I try to focus in person.
I have to polishing my writing and That to a point there is no assumptions and player could don’t feel i am force anything on them. But yeah, there is pan , bi trans ace people. And sometimes a gay will ask you if you are looking for commpany or not with naturality. I think that is like should be in real life.
There are some people who actually took issue with the way that Coming Out On Top handled representation, some critics mentioned that it relaied in too many tropes and that it promoted an idea that there was a “right” and “wrong” way to be gay. Still, many gay men consider this game one of their favourite representations of gay identity, which is evident when looking at Coming Out On Top’s website and seeing the discussions taking place between fans.
I actually played the game, and although I can see where the complaints are coming from, I think did more good than harm, especially considering the lack gay dating sims. I strongly agree with you when you say:
That was all I wanted to add really, I just felt you were glossing over our straight allies who are willing to do proper research, as any writer probably should, I mean if I wanted to write about Victorian era women’s fashion, or was ordered to do so for money I’d need to put in the research as well.
That is a near-universal complaint, sadly that straight and most often male gamers will make any time they encounter gay content in their media. I’d say ignore it.
Sure and there was some discussion way back of (West) European versus American gay experiences too, but not even a gay writer will truly be able to please every other gay person too. Dorian and Gaider got their fair share of critique from the LGBTQ community too, but again overall they did far more good than harm and have been a strong net positive.
Yep, I liked that it was mostly funny and upbeat and we didn’t get hit with the pain and suffering tropes. We were not stabbed, beaten or punched just for being gay in any of the storylines for example and that’s a lot more than I can say for a lot of other media focusing on gays and gay guys in particular.
Now I understand the downside of trying to go for that upbeat and humorous tone may have been that it could also at times come across as flippant and non-serious but to (gay) people who were turned off by those things I encourage them to find or create gay focused content that they feel does strike the right balance in their eyes. Who knows maybe I’ll love their creations just as much.
Funny thing is there is a moment were a male elf is half nude in a towel and he has a very hot tribal tatoos in certain area. So if you choose look at them well he will notice you were looking.
So he chooses looking his area and then found bad the guy tried to flirt with him? I don’t understand. I ended up bloocking the scene for heteros. To don’t hear more complaints
This understates the case. I can confirm that (as @HomingPidgeon said) “without a lot of help” I’d have made even more mistakes than I have. Thanks to everyone on this forum who has helped and is helping me to do better. (Notable thanks to @FairyGodfeather, @idonotlikeusernames, @Fiogan, and @Mirabella, as well as @Laguz).
Ooh, kind of like the Dandy scene in Evertree Inn then. I really, really loved that scene. 
Well you were the first actively LGBTQ affirming Christian I ever met and still one of only 2 I know today. The rest are at best politically and strategically “neutral” on the issue.
Someone put a firework in his shower as joke so he ended up in the corridor with a towel. Not my fault he is sexy and have a elven tatoos in the lower area . I mena either is my fault a hetero decide choose looking at his butt. So why people could complaint that the man you are looking at his butt try to flirt with?
I mean i think has sense.
I believe as @ruhenri told me not too long ago some straight guys are apparently freaked out by the fact they can even recognize male beauty at all and have a less than pleasant reaction to that fact.
That’s pure bigotry and i have two of my few testers with those reactions months ago. I don’t understand why. I mean You are looking at a half nude guy butt tatoos. You selected that choice. Look at character butt tatoos. Then you complaint Character notice and flirt with you? I mean if i am half nude and see a guy seeing at me all interested I think he is trying to flirt with me .
The same dudes that feel an imperative need to add the words “no homo” after every interaction they perform with someone of their same sex?
Yep, pretty much. Apparently to notice that a hot guy is a hot guy one most suffer from that strange medical condition called homosexuality 
I don’t get it, a hot guy is a hot guy, the same way a hot girl is a hot girl. Feeling sexual attraction for them has nothing to do with recognizing their beauty, at least not for me. Now try to explain that to that bunch of homophobic machos that run around swearing that they wouldn’t know if that guy is pretty, because they are not gay (and they certainly don’t use the non-offensive word for it).
I have gladly lost some acquaintances because of stupid reactions like that to recognizing male beauty.
And the problem isn’t with not being able to recognize beauty in a sex towards which we don’t feel attraction (when @idonotlikeusernames told me that he doesn’t notice beautiful women I got pretty certain that it is an absolutely normal situation), the problem is not accepting that one does recognize beautiful men and use homophobic behaviour to deal with one’s issues radicated in machismo.
And it gets even worse if a gay happens to flirt with them. Damn, I get pretty happy when guys try to flirt with me, huge compliment and great confidence boost.
That’s a bit absolute, isn’t it?
While other people have pointed out why escapism can be valuable to members of marginalized groups, there’s one additional point I’d like to raise… it’s not realistic to say that LGBT people would be discriminated against in any setting. Even throughout history, attitudes have varied, and there’s no reason to think that these particular prejudices must exist in fictional worlds… the future may be different, a world with magic may be different, an alternate history may have developed along its own lines… etc. By saying that it’s only realistic if this discrimination exists, that ends up saying that such discrimination is normal. It doesn’t have to be.
Now, I’ve always said that I think portrayals of discrimination can be very powerful and valuable, if done sensitively… but that doesn’t diminish the fact that settings without such discrimination are also powerful and valuable.
Well, she did say “there are exceptions to the rule” 
I guess, one thing I’d say, there should be a distinction between implying that bigotry doesn’t make someone a bad person, versus portraying a bigoted character as having personality traits outside of their bigotry. (I can see where this can be a tricky line to walk, though.) Just, being as people always have a large number of personality traits, this is true of bigots too. And one of the things that can be hardest about interacting with bigots in real life can be that they may act very different in other contexts… which can make it quite a bit more hurtful when their bigoted side comes to the forefront. It’s one of the things that can make coming out to certain people really hard… knowing that a relationship which has felt positive could change drastically.
(As a side point, there are certainly ways to characterize people without adding positive traits… lots of personality things are completely neutral, but do make for more interesting and well-rounded characters, like personal preferences, tastes, and interests.)
I guess I’d be curious what thoughts people might have on portraying characters who, as is the case for many real people, are both very nice to certain people, but very hateful to other people. I do feel like it’s significant that bad traits can be present beneath pleasant surfaces… which, nonetheless, does nothing to diminish how bad they are. Any thoughts on how to make sure, in writing, not to diminish this?
(Oh, and there’s also a big difference between someone who’s willing to learn, and someone who’s closed themselves off. It can be hard to tell which someone will be in advance 
But speaking from real life, it can be very gratifying indeed when you’re able to influence someone into opening their mind… you just can’t count on it…)
It’s not entirely as simple as that but with women my brain tends to only retain face and voice as identifying information, below the neck women in my recollection all just tend to blur together a bit. Let’s just say I don’t have a sharp eye for the details of their bodies.
Well but you could I suppose know what is considered beauty by artistic purpose . I don’t find women sexualy attractive at least for now, But I could see beauty in the body as like in a Greek statue or a picture. Same I see beauty in a scenery painting or in a animal. But maybe is just me.