I do and whenever a woman asks me for an opinion on women’s bodies I compare it to artistic and cultural examples I’ve learned, though again my brain tends to airbrush women’s bodies by a fair amount in my recollections. I know our golden age painters tended to picture their venuses a little more filled-out than today’s beauty standards, for example, while for men the adonis ideal has remained pretty much consistent throughout.
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Tell me I still having certain crush In certain Hermes Greek statue.
However, at least here a hetero can’t say oh that men is prettier than that even if is a Greek statue. I mean see beauty in universe doesn’t change your sexual orientation
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Yep, the same happens to me regarding men. I recognize and appreciate a beautiful and or hot man, I just don’t feel sexual attraction towards him.
Still, to me it is not exactly the same as analyzing a beautiful painting or statue. I basically use four things as ways to analyze if another person (male or female) is attractive: facial beauty; body hotness; charisma; and style (in guys I am totally clueless regarding this one, only using it for women). Having to use examples of men where I notice at least one of those three things… I would go with DiCaprio for beauty; Gerard Butler for hotness; and Pacino for charisma.
So, it might be more subjective than art, I am not sure. The difference is that if a woman fits my ideal on those criteria, I am clearly attracted towards her, and when a man does I only think “Damn, really attractive guy”.
The problem is that many hetero guys don’t see things that way, and lash out on gays because of those unsolved issues.
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Yeah, i am with you on that. Sadly most of my hetero testers don’t
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I guess, I didn’t realise that. But admit it - that change happened in a small timeframe, not a hundred years. Most of the change is happening rapidly, in the span of less than half a lifetime, which is all I meant by fast (I hope you didn’t think I meant 2-3 years by fast?)
I don’t remember which reply, but one of them seems to suggest that one can choose whether to be gay or not. Almost like it’s a lifestyle choice. AFAIK, sexual attraction isn’t something ordinary people can control, or is that not the case?
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This is in General because it isn’t about any specific game.
Couldn’t it work when presented less as ‘bigots can be good people’ and more as ‘people who are not stereotypical Bad People can nonetheless be bigoted’? I think when people start to think of bigotry only in terms of it being associated with the most extreme portrayal it can lead them to a sort of ‘well I can’t be racist, I’m not a bad person’ mindset.
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It’s been fifty years since homosexuality was decriminalised here in England (the rest of the UK followed later), and a hundred and fifty years since it was an executable offence. I’d count that as a slow progress.
It’s not a choice (did you choose your sexuality? ;P), but I’ve actually come to the conclusion that that’s not important. Even if it was a choice, it should still be legal, and protected. (Otherwise, it might be seen as a “disease” to be “cured”.)
But in such cases, the character in question should end up learning the error of their ways. If they don’t, then it could normalise the bigotry in the eyes of the audience.
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So we agree on one point - sexuality must not be considered some sort of choice. And yes, the purpose of a society is to protect people from one another, and homosexuality does not, in any way whatsoever, harm other people. So the government’s have no right to try and prevent it.
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Progress was slow, but more like a few, dispersed steps, rather than a slow change in the mindset of people. Check the number of people who would’ve supported homosexuality 20 years ago, and compare it to now. There would be a phenomenal difference. Change tends to be rapid, even if the process behind it isn’t. And not to mention, the law came into force in like a single day. Even the process was quite fast. And while the struggle before it was rather slow, the process itself was fast. And a similar fast change is being seen across the world now, in the span of a few decades everything has changed. I’d call that fast.
There are so many ways to go about a change. A large number of us are trying to do the same thing but in radically different methods. This must not, at any rate, divide us. We all have different reasons for it, some do it for justice, some for moral values, others because they belong to the community in question, and some simply because they have nothing better to do (trust me, there are a few like that). This definitely complicates things.
I don’t think bigots in stories always need to learn the error of their ways, it’s just as realistic that they don’t. I’d say it’s more important to show that it’s wrong in general, so it could also just be something like a character(s) calling them out for their views or something…first thing I thought of when reading that was the portrayal Combo from this is England, haven’t seen the tv follow up series in ages, but don’t think he flat out realises the error of his ways, but think the film still does a great job of showing his views are wrong you know?
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Total opposite for me, though I should note that this is certainly not universal as several gay guys have become highly successful in the female fashion industry.
Mostly clueless about this one for women as well, apart from the most generic descriptors.
Now this I do notice, voice as well.
This is the truly near universal one. So I guess a base my mental picture of women mostly on face, voice and charisma.
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If I may, this reminded me of a comic I saw way back when so I did some digging and found it once more. It applies to the conversation fairly well, I think, so I figured I might as well put it here?
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I agree, but I think it ultimately depends on what the writer wants to do with that particular character based on how they’ve written their personality.
Going back to the Liliana example that someone else mentioned, because she’s supposed to have this sensitive side, her coming to the conclusion that she said something offensive and corrected her behavior for the future works for her. It’s in line with her personality.
But have the same conversation with Sten and it shouldn’t. In fact he probably would have just gone down in approval and told you that your way of thinking was wrong. If anything I found him a lot more of an interesting character since he wasn’t going to alter his way of thinking because you happen to be the protagonist.
One thing I also find interesting is when the protagonist has the option to not exactly be a beacon of tolerance either.
I remember a good example of something like this that popped up, which I don’t remember any major complaints about was in the first Dragon Age.
When a male warden is talking to Zevran at some point he’ll mention he likes dudes as well as women and will say something about the warden being attractive.
There was a list of responses and a couple of them were pretty negative. I believe the worst one was saying you found Zevran disgusting. In fact I doubt Bioware would even put something like that in one of their games nowadays.
Of course picking the more negative reactions had the consequence of lowering Zev’s approval of you a lot which makes sense of course, so it wasn’t like you could just say it and nothing bad could potentially happen. (Zev could have very well sided with the assassins later on since you lowered his approval to the point that you pissed him off)
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That’s probably the same hetero guys who have a problem to understand the concept of “she is attractive but not my type”…and then question the sexuality of the person who says this (are you sure you are straight / are you sure you are pan?).
They have such a strange monitoring going on about what makes out somebodie’s sexuality, what’s legitimate to find attractive or not and seem at the same time have no idea that attraction for other people may works differently (or maybe for those guys this is just something they deem worth to be discouraged? For whatever reason?)…it’s weird… 
And I mean it’s not just hetero men? Hetero women sometimes do something similar too? In the sense of “of course you recognize that another women is attractive, because you are jealous/want to look like her, but you of course are not attracted to her, showcast your feminity so nobody ever thinks you’re not straight!” It’s even worse in sports I think, because of the cliché about sporty women, but not all sports however? Only those that society codes as “men sports” like soccer, football and stuff. Not so much when you do a sport like swimmimg, but it’s still there?
Anyway all this “no homo” shit is weird as hell and damn confusing when you are/were surrounded by it while still being in the closest/denial about your sexuality. (And probably the reason why I would prefer to paint everything I own in rainbow colors before ever going back to that shit 
)
@Lord_of_the_Galaxy do you know that you can edit your posts with the snall pencil symbol at the corner of your posts and that you can reply to more than one person per post either by marking the comment you want to respond and clicking “quote reply” (may doesn’t work with all mobile browsers) or by just using @username of the person you want to answer (normalky you should get suggestions after typing @). That way you can avoid double posts. If you didn’t know, now you do.
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Ok thanks, will keep that in mind from now on.
And how to add those quotes? I think you have to press some button, though I don’t know what button.
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You go to the post you want to quote and mark the passage you want to quote, with most browsers you now should get displayed a grey button saying quote reply or just "quote (I think this got changed sometime ago?):
This may doesn’t work with a few mobile browsers as far as I’m aware (firefix mobile had some problens the last time I tried for example)
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Oh yes they should be shown as being wrong. But the point would be that good actions/traits are not mutually exclusive with and do not absolve bad ones.
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