The Breasts Issue

General
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So me and @Snowpanther are having a debate about a planned scene in our ‘Across the Skies and Seas.’
There was supposed to be a scene wherein the MC as a female can oggle at a female senator’s breasts (meaning you have a choice). The female senator in question is wearing a silver dress, accentuating her cleavage.

The dialogue would have been:

“Rosseau, are your breasts too dull to look at? Why not ask that sage Moreau, that apprentice of the Tinkerer. Maybe he can augment yours a size or two.”

Her words caught you off-guard, causing you to redden and avert your gaze. She chuckles at this.

“Relax.”

She says to you, and then her expression turns serious.
“I have a proposal for you though, Rosseau. Listen carefully.”

A. Alright, let’s hear it.
B. Save it for someone else instead, Le Roux.

They have long been fellow senators so they know each other quite well.

The question by the way is directed more to the ladies in the forum, but gents are still free to answer.

Do you oggle at other women’s breasts? Do other girls’ breasts fascinate you? Does the issue of breasts come up in girl talks?

@Snowpanther

Don’t kill me! I’m just curious. Hahahah…

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To me it seems fine. :smile: In fact I think the conversation is a bit mild so I do not see any problems with but that is just me.

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As a gent, I’m not entirely sure what I kind of legitimacy any answer of mine might carry. However, I have had multiple female friends, and in listening in to their conversations, they seem to come up as general topics, but I don’t know if I’d call what I observed fascination. I did have a girlfriend who openly told me she did appreciate a nice pair of breasts (I’m paraphrasing) though. So… yeah…

ahem

I’ll just see myself out now.

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Why is this scene there?
What is the purpose of it?
How do these choices add to the story?

Is there a similar scene in which male characters are objectified? By another man? How would such a scene make you feel?

Are you asking the straight ladies of the forum? Or those who’re attracted to women? Or those who’re not attracted to women?

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We’re now delving into mild spoiler area. But…

  1. You’re in a senate hall and you decide to sit besides the female senator in question. (You have a choice to select others instead.)
  2. I wanted to introduce a character who is sort of an embodiment but also a contradiction to the party she is leading. She leads a Populist Faction. She is funny, headstrong, but at the same time also a bit devious. Sometimes you don’t know if she’s being serious or not.
  3. I wanted to show that the world is still the same as ours. That there are people with different quirks, and personality similar to in our world.

Is there a similar scene in which male characters are objectified? Yes.
By another man? Yes.
How would such a scene make you feel? Me, personally I would feel awkward. As I’m straight.

Are you asking the straight ladies of the forum? Kind of.
Or those who’re attracted to women? Possible.
Or those who’re not attracted to women? Also possible.

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Is that how you want to make your readers feel?

It’s so much more common to have these scenes objectifying women. And no, I would not say one female character objectifying another counts as diversity to me, that sort of interaction, as written by a straight male writer, usually comes across as being for the male gaze. Some sort of male fantasy of how women interact, as opposed to how they actually do.

So, in this, I’d suggest deferring to your female co-writer.

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in my mind you should just write the story as you want it because there will be people that think its funny people that think its objectifying people that don’t care and tons more. there is no pleasing everyone.

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I found it distasteful and machist not for the fact itself, for the nasty way it is written is like a nerdy male teen Imagine a weird porn scene.
I am a straight girl who play as bi in many role-playing sessions. And If I read that I would find it bad … It is too rudely written with no subtlety it is like a libido driven truck driver scene Saying HEY BABE GOOD ASSETS YOU HAVE YOUR PARTY MUST BE FULL ON MILK or something like that while drinking beer

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Feels a wee bit too shy for me :innocent: Maybe the MC could be given the choice to an unapologetic/devilish grin instead?

Hmmm, could the MC also be given the choice to ask if they were real? And then poke them twins like crazee. Kidding :wink: (maybe)

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For the second time in a row I’d like to preface my statement that I am a male, so maybe I’ve got a bit of subconscious bias, but given that this scene is a choice that the player can opt into or out of, and that there is also a scene where a male is similarly objectified by another male (presumably just as optional as this one), then I’d tentatively say that maybe we can call this one a net zero?

Now, seeing as it was stated there was some debate over the scene between the co-authors, I’d be curious to know the exact nature of the debate. Is the very existence of an oggling scene being debated, or is the debate of the realistic/unrealistic nature of the scene? Or am I trying to look too far behind the curtain?

Coming from a guy who’s social circles consist mostly of girls, the existence of a scene in which a female character stares at another female’s body and gets caught seems within the realm of possibility, but the exact dialogue strike me as a tad… I don’t know, iffy?

“Can’t you stare at your own body?” doesn’t seem like the kind of witty counter anyone would make to being oggled, at least in my mind. (Even if I found it hilarious, and would have found it equally hilarious had it been used in a scene with males instead.)

Annnd I’m getting back in my box.
:neutral_face:

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This is a cross-post to a similar question asked by another:

[quote] This is just my opinion:

The more you focus on the breast, the more you objectify. I’ve read other stories where there was something similar going on and the more the author wanted to diminish the character or her position, power or worth, the more they focused on the nakedness, vulnerability and humiliation.

From a historical point of view, in antiquity, bared breasts signified participation in normally male-dominated areas; the Olympics, Gladiators of Rome, etc. After the Victorian era, the entire perspective was changed and since then, any trend still fights the tradition established then. [/quote]

Perhaps it is because I am not a male but I really do not understand the focus on the breast, yet this question keeps popping up in one form or another.

@Knightstrike - would you expect a male MC to ogle at the bulge of a male senator he sat down next to? What if the Senator had nice silk suit pants on that accentuated his size?

the dialogue could go something like:

Why is this even being considered?

Edit because I read your second post:

Objectifying anyone, male or female through bringing and focusing attention to an anatomical part is wrong , especially when there seems to be very little beyond the shock value.

The fact that you anticipated my distaste of this even being presented by writing a male counterpart means there must be something extreme and outside normal boundaries. I’m just saying, the community here and the audience of both CoG and Hosted Games are beyond the expected and out-dated Hollywood/Bollywood systematic crap.

In this regard, @Snowpanther was not only correct but this makes me question why she would even involve herself in such a project.

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Hmm, what is wrong about the scene? I find the scene a good one to make possible reactions from the MC’s point of view. I think the MC can merely be interpreted in different ways when they look or as say ogle another woman’s chest.

One they could be ogling the other woman because they are curious as to why the woman would wear such a low neckline dress. (This could start a conversation where in depending on the responses the MC and the other female can end up into friendly conversation or into a war of words.)

Two the MC could express their disdain for the other woman which is why their eyes landed on the woman’s chest. Which they find very unrefined and they can reprimand the woman. (Cat war meow.)

Three the MC could really be ogling the woman since they feel some sort of attraction. (And so a proposition can be made lols or a deal meh.)

Four the MC could be compering her chest size with the other woman. (Come on ladies were done it before or at least some of us like me. Comparing if the other woman had a bigger jaggies meh. Same as guys comparing with each other if they have a bigger stuff down there. Its human nature to compare ourselves mwahaha.)

Five instead of actually looking at the other woman’s chest the MC was actually looking at her say accessory. Which was misinterpreted as the MC looking at the other woman’s juggies. (Insert reaction from the other woman where the Mc can try to explain or go with the flow.)

Six the MC’s gaze just briefly went to the other woman’s chest, but the other woman thought MC was ogling her. The MC on her part has no care for the other woman’s jaggies, just a simple accidental glance. (Insert conversation for the MC and other woman.)

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I don’t like breasts it just a bunch of fat put there too feeding babies. There is nothing cool in them. I had lesbians friends and none is so obsessed with breasts as males wants to believe. I have big breasts sadly and I found already tiresome boys gazing lol . Women until know only say how I wish have your size i have to use wonder bra…

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This seems to be a low-blow. I like working with Snowie/Ludi. And I respect her views/opinions very much.

The scene has already been changed by hers. But I posted this since I’m curious and just wanted to find out about what others thoughts are.

But again, it’s a question for her. Why still work with me?

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Simply put, an “accidental glance” is something that while noticed would not be even commented on. The glance is something we might have experienced as women but honestly I have never once verbally or otherwise acknowledged the glance being given me … maybe my mother taught me differently but a proper response is to show the glance was even beneath your notice.

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I’m sorry. Perhaps my migraine is pushing me to harshness at this time but I thought more of you as an author and as a person experiencing bullying and being objectified in other ways. I guess I was surprised you would even write something like this in the first place.

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:joy: It sounds like a superhero ready to help chests in need…I mean, breasts in need. Breasts

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As someone who did breast feed my children that is sort of insulting. I’m happy with mine thou, I love it because I just do and its part of my body, but it does depend on the person if they like their chest or not. I never used a wonder bra and what the heck is that anyway?

Different cultures my dear. Besides a wondering eye can get into a misunderstanding. Some people would get upset that you looked at them just briefly while other will also ignore you. So I think it’s a good possible scene for the characters.

Are we all still talking about the game or are we talking about something different?

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And not only that With put that and talking about the clothes of the girl You are not only treatment her as a sex object you are saying if you dress like a slut everyone would looking at you instead of heard you . I don’t believe he would put a male dressing like about going a disco party with a big package and Men just saying that’s real or u are too happy of see me ?

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Breasts are fat reserves prepared to feed children it is their only objective. So I don’t find it insulting. I have a 120 yes 120coup c Genetic stuff I am from a big breast family. So since teen I have to endure boys not only looking some trying to accidentally grope them in trains metro etc…

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