I think your game sounds great, and I’d have a hard time taking anyone seriously if they complained that the large preportion of queer characters was unrealistic, given that there are living cities in this setting. (Besides, I’m of the opinion that games don’t need to be “realistic” in that way to be good)
Wouldn’t it be great to have sales projections based on ideas?
Don’t mine me, just dreaming out loud…
Ugh, quoting multiple posts on mobile is so annoying :T
Thank you all, this really encouraging honestly ;w;
I follow a lot of artists and writers on a lot of social media, but mostly twitter these days, so I see a lot o what they go through so all I’ve been able to think has been “Oh god, I’m next aren’t I?” It’s honestly ridiculous what they put up with, whether it’s getting plagiarized or getting accused of faking their race or queerness over totally arbitrary things like fandom and shipping or being bombarded with questions to why a certain character is a certain race. It’s hard to forget sometimes that there are other places on the Internet that aren’t like twitter or tumblr or instagram
Also, the author blurb sounds like a good idea!
There’s always going to be people who will make the “this is forced diversity and obviously a part of the anti-whitecishet agenda” complaint, because a lot of people kind of suck. But 1. even (or perhaps especially) in the far more conservative parts of the US I’ve lived in, queer people tend to stick together. I, too, have multiple groups of friends where there are few or no straight people. Just remember that it isn’t unrealistic. and 2. anyone who wants to whine about that is an asshat, anyway, because this kind of representation really matters to a lot of people, who 3. are going to be really glad to encounter that degree of diversity in your game.
I’m new around here, but it’s worth saying anyway, I think that CoG’s explicit commitment to encouraging diversity + the frequent diversity-related topics on these forums has also created an environment where that kind of diversity in the cast isn’t going to surprise anyone. This isn’t a gaming space that’s ever really allowed straight white cis dudes to think they own it, from what I’ve seen. So while if your game gets widely-played, I’m sure someone will have something unpleasant to say about it, they’re going to be in the minority.
I hope I’ll see more about this game here as you make progress on it!
Well, I for one, don’t feel that there’s anything wrong with pushing an agenda, as long as it’s an agenda in support of tolerance and inclusivity.
Mentioning earlier relationships for example…to make clear that they always was abd is the potential to feel attracted by people of all genders.
For people that come up with such comments, normally our sheer existences is already unrealistic.
It’s your world, and there never was a lack of stories delivering straight, cis, white representation. It’s absolutely okay to want to see yourself in fiction and after all normally when we argue for the inclusion of queer/lgbta people one of the main arguments against it we get to hear besides “it’s unrealistic” is “do it yourself”.
What I want to say: certain people always will whine about marginalised groups getting representation no matter if it’s based on somebodies expirience or is set in a fantasy world with dragons. That shouldn’t stop you from creating a world where you can see yourself and others included. You will find people reading it and loving it specifically because they can see themself in a story and will support you.
I have not read Frankenstein but I know that Mary Shelley is the daughter of Mary Wollstonecraft, a precursor of the feminist movement, so it should not be surprising if the novel is influenced by some feminist ideas.
But, back to your topic @anon86661845, you should consider that having several queer characters allows you to make good ones, and bad ones, and morally ambiguous ones and dynamic characters that grow and change, and do things that you couldn’t do if you only had one queer character. That is a positive aspect.
And if it seems unrealistic to have a cast full of gay, listen, I don’t know how it happens but queer people have a way of coming together. I mean, in my usual group of friends we are six people, from which three of us happen to be queer, and two of the ones who consider themselves straight have admitted to feel some level of curiosity for people of the same gender, so it isn’t that unlikely that you might find a lot of LGBT characters. But I am mostly speaking for gay and bi people, I don’t know if it’s the same for trans or non-binary people.
And if it helps you to feel more comfortable, you can try to have some fun with it. I don’t know if it fits the tone of your WIP, but you can lampshade the fact that the cast is full of queer characters. It can be funny.
I can think of examples like this webcomic:
No matter what you will always have a rather large support corner when it comes to the CoG forums. I personally adore just the mention of what is in your game. As a person of color/s and part of the lgbtqa+ community, I’ve been seeking a story like that. (Did you grow up in the Bay Area?)
As for topic sake: I seem to be one of the few that has actually read Frankenstein. People always get annoyed with me when I correct them saying, “Frankenstein is not the name of the monster, but the name of the doctor. The monster’s name was Adam (cause you know he created man).” As @Sammysam said, almost all works of fiction can contain feminist politics if looked through the right lens. If I remember right, Adam wanted a wife to spend his lonely time with and Dr. Frankenstein started to create one before tearing her apart in fear that she would form a mind of her own. Adam became enraged and promised to visit the doctor on the night of his wedding to his cousin/adopted sister. Things went badly.
If he would have just given the girl a chance everyone could have left a happy camper.
Once I heard this:
Knowledge is knowing that Frankenstein is not the monster.
Wisdom is realizing that Frankenstein is the monster.
Okay, so I guess until I can replace my laptop at the end of the month I’m just going to @ people because quoting multiple people in one post at the same time seems nearly impossible to do on mobile
@Daenyx @MockTurtle You’re definitely right about lgbt folks weirdly attracting each other. Of my 5 frinds from high school and 10 or so (? Around that, I’m bad at counting) newer friends I’ve make since starting college I currently only have one or two cishet friends. I’m not super sure about the exact number because I only vaguely remember one of them saying he’s straight, but also I have the worst memory in the world so I could easily have only one (which I know for sure because I once almost asked him out but had a friend of a friend ask him if he would date a guy first and he said no). In high school I had only one non-cis friend that i didnt have a falling out with (that though was also just one) but my high school also didnt have many lgbt students in general, since college though I’ve met I think at least 7 (? Again, bad at counting and remembering things) trans or nonbinary people so far and I go to a private school with less than 1000 students. While most popular media has the token queer, it seems like the token cishet friend is more common in real life. Also, MockTurtle, what Web comic is that?
@ParrotWatcher I feel the same. Problem is thought there’s a weird amount of people who think there is and they also seem to think that queer people and POC need some sort of complicated reason to exist in the first place. My reaction to them typically looks something like this
@Sammysam Yeah, I was thinking of something like that. Possibly a mention and/or interaction with an ex of one of them or something? Just an idea for one character at least, I’d like to have each character interaction regarding their sexuality to be unique (autocorrect is so weird??? How did ‘to be’ turn into ‘especially’???)
@Skagit Yep, I’m from the Bay Area. Good guess
Normally I wouldn’t be feeling this way about what I’m making. Most of my concerns up til now have been more along the lines of are each of the characters unique, are they appealing, do they feel believable, etc. I’m currently halfway through a month long trip visiting family out of the country and I’m a timezone away from all of my friends and support. One of my cousins got engaged, and, whIle no one has really asked if I’m seeing anyone or anything, I have gotten comments that are more or less along the lines of “this is gonna happen to you one day, and probably soon :)” I don’t know if there’s a word for it in english and I wouldn’t know how to spell it in vietnamese, but there’s this whole ceremony that mainly focuses on the bride-to-be and her family and let’s just say no one in my family knows that I’m neither going to be nor have a bride. My family is the chatty type and would definitely gossip about anyone still single above the age of of like 25 and all of my cousins are married, engaged, in a committed relationship, or way younger than me and too young to date in the first place, so I’m almost positive I’m the Gay Cousin. Plus it’s been only a few days since the anniversary of the Pulse Shooting last year which made Pride month for me this month bittersweet at best. Needless to say, this hasn’t exactly been the best time or place for my mental health
On a lighter note though, I’d been hearing over the past couple years that there’s been a growing push toward legalizing gay marriage in Vietnam. There were a lot of people who thought Vietnam might be the first asian country to legalize it until Taiwan beat them to it I think last month or so (congrats to Taiwan though, hopefully the rest of Asia will be following soon)
Shortpacked! by David Willis.
I’ve had a couple of Vietnamese friends and the pressure on them from their family, not only to marry (and marry within the Vietnamese or American-Vietnamese community) was never-ending. I can imagine it is the same for you. Hope you get back to your support network soon.
A lot of my aunts and uncles are like that which is why I try to avoid them during family gatherings :T Luckily my mom would prefer it if I didn’t have anything to distract me from school, whether it’s a job or dating, so I’m safe for now. Just for the next fourish years or so though
Yup, something like that.
Emphasis on this. For some characters that could also mean that they dated more people of the same gender or vica versa (however the vica versa version by now seems to be more common in games…sometimes seems like a way to “spare” the straight players from gay content…at least that’s how it seems…or maybe it’s just the cynic in me speaking), some may never dated much at all, some tend to be attracted to different things depending on their partners gender (however this one could eventually be difficult to code, so I see why it’s not done often) etc, etc, basically the always preached “every character is a character first and foremost also in the way they relate to their sexuality”.
Haha, that is definitely up for debate, my friend. The monster was a rather kind and misunderstood individual; the doctor taught him to care for humanity. Think of all the ‘Create-A-Friend Kits’ Victor could have made! He’d be creating happiness and love all around~
@anon86661845 Part of my childhood was spent in Oakland and I had family there for the longest time before it got too expensive to survive. I still love the area and know the neighborhoods well.
One more reason I really hope to do a Victoria/Victor Frankenstein story where the player is the monster.
I mean, where else could the phrase ‘self-made woman/man’ be literally true?
Also, sorry for going slightly off topic.
@Sammysam I feel the same way honestly. I really liked Anders from the Dragon Age series because I found him really relatable but I felt like there were huge problems with how he was written in Dragon Age 2, both as a mentally ill character and as a bisexual character. I always felt like him only telling a romanced male Hawke about his relationship with Karl was, like you said, just to “spare” straight players from gay content
@Skagit I get what you mean about it being too expensive. I live in what I’d like to call the poor part of the rich part of the city :,) A lot of places have been getting remodeled or torn down completely to be replaced by nicer buildings recently. My mom has been talking about possibly moving for the past couple years since rent has just been getting higher and higher in the area
I’m going to agree with @Sammysam here: a lot of “bi” options in games are basically straight options who have been made available for gay players, too, and this generally means they talk about their opposite-gender exes a lot, but never have same-gender ones. So yeah: give your characters same-gender exes.
@Eiwynn: That was possibly the most ironically-appropriate comment to instantly delete.
This is one the most interesting attempts at the medium
The other (PRC) China and India would be the big ones, if either of them legalizes it we suddenly have more people in the world living in countries where gay marriage is possible than not, so that would be a major milestone.
Sadly I don’t think PRC China will move on this soon and India has been getting more hostile to instead of better on gay rights. While I know you don’t live there @Cataphrak what is your take on gay rights in the PRC?
As far as Hinduist Asia goes I believe Nepal, where @Havenstone currently lives has tried to introduce gay marriage, but I heard that the gay marriage provisions were sadly amended out of the new human rights laws. Still I hope they will try again soon.
How can you be a bride if you don’t identify as female?
This makes me glad I don’t have a family like yours, I mean I’m well over 30 now and have never been in relationship for more than two years.
I’m rather fortunate in that my family is either too distant too care much and the ones who do know better than to push me.