In any case it’s not endearing in thus case, as pg is. Such. A. Bore.
Gods. 
I would say they’re so different as to be difficult to compare. In particular LH is more on the ‘game’ side and HR more the ‘story’ side. People complain about HR being too railroaded but I personally found that LH made roleplaying quite difficult because the stat stuff was so harsh; you end up thinking less ‘what would this character do here’ and more ‘I have to take this option to get +3 Blades or I’m going to fail for the rest of the game’
Really? I’d say that Sergi seems to have been pretty good at improving his later work based on criticism of the older stuff - comparing Versus to HR it’s clear he took at least some stuff on board.
9 Likes
The problem is when you compare Versus with the Hero Project.
Looking at sergi’s work I have the feeling he rather just pretends to card to be cheered at than anything genuine. He seems to work off a checklist, and the result is a self-contradicting mess.
Like. First book we get told society moved beyond sexism, anti-queer stuff etc.
How does Miss Boss and her “rawr rawr fight the patriarchy by embracing everything that defines toxic masculinity” fit into that? How does being able to blackmail a queer couple fit into that?
1 Like
First of off, please, no redemption series as it holds particular themes which i felt could cause controversy and dissent( i dont want to turn my first topic into a LGBTQ Debate), secondly while there is no karma meter we can(hopefully)understand, that blackmailing a queer couple is an wrong decision and generally the game(at least through my evil play-through) punishes you for being a narrow-minded pr*ck, while if you forget what you saw you get to go with the millennium club and fistfull and his lover like you. In universe blackmailing(or the attempt of)is regarded as a douche-bag decision and receives proper retribution.
1 Like
Tough question. I like them both. My personal opinion is that the Lost Heir is better just because you have more freedom in how to develop your character’s abilities and personality.
1 Like
This is exactly what I mean with ‘working of a checklist’
It does not MATTER that the game ‘punishes’ you. That option is THERE. In a setting that, according to the in-universe info should not even allow for that mentality.
These things are there so the AUTHOR can feel good about being ‘so progressive’.
This is nothing new.
Do you know Perry Moore’s ‘Hero’?
Same thing. Many still praise it for having a gay superhero lead, but so much of the anti-queer stuff in there makes so sense in the setting, and let’s not even start with the casual racism and misogyny in it.
2 Likes
The blackmail was possible because Monk and FF both had a public image that would have been tarnish by the info that they were in a relationship. Monk was well, a monk, and fist full had a image of a certain masculinity that if contradicted could change his demographic.
Honestly which you find better is all about personal opinion. I played a bit of the first Lost Heir but I didn’t get very far between how open world it was became too much for me. In COGs I prefer a more linear story’s like Heroes Rise or Slammed or Samurai of Hyuga. But that’s just my personal thing.
And I kinda want to defend Heroes Rise here a bit. The first game wasn’t that great, yeah, but it WAS the first game. I think the trilogy just got better over time. Do I wish the author had done some things differently, of course, and while I do think Versus is much better because he learned from this mistakes he made from HR I still prefer the world and characters in HR, maybe I’m just sentimental because HR was my first real delve into COGs but I do think the orgianal trilogy gets unfairly put down.
Sure he could’ve handled the LGBTQ stuff better and sure there is a lot of times where I feel like I would prefer different options but the games are simple and fun. Not everything needs to be huge and grandiose to be worthwhile and while it’s not perfect I think it has a charm to it… but the first game is the weakest one. Easily.
2 Likes
In a world where, we were told, these images don’t exist anymore.
,FIstfull created that image himself, not society, and even if that dont believe that is valid you cant argue against monks vows
Look is this a discussion that belongs in a simple x vs y poll/debate.
Soryy if thats a bit abrupt talk about whatever you please, I refrain from commenting
In a society that has, again, according to in-universe info, NO concept of toxic masculinity… you can not create such an image. And even if done ironically based on historic documents, there would STILL be no one to bat an eye at the affair, as the protag should see nothing wrong with that, knowing the act is an act based on historic stuff.
If you’d meet someone working at a living history museum in the city on their cell phone, would you deem that ‘wrong’? no, cause you’d know they are only playing a medieval knight or pilgrim or what have you.
EDIT:
My main problem with HR is that there is so much potential, but up to this date Sergi doesn’t seem to care for the raw diamond he has there (or doesn’t know what to do with it), and (at best) just throws in stuff because he thinks he must, not knowing how to make everything smooth (maybe even being afraid to outright ask), or (at worst) throws in stuff to just pretend he cares (as said, the way so many details are written up to this date points to the latter, which would be a shame. I do hope I’m wrong and it’s the former)
Again, this is my subjective opinion and I apologise if I sounded as if I think I speak for everyone.
2 Likes
I’m not sure how constructive it is to pit these two trilogies against each other.
Zachary and Lucid are both incredibly talented guys and we are lucky to have them both in our community. Their trilogies are very different, and obviously folks’ preferences as to settling and story/game spectrum will impact their answers here.
I was fortunate enough to spend some time with Lucid this fall and he’s very dedicated and successful in his craft. Likewise, Zachary blazed a trail for others to follow and provided CoG with (I think) the company’s first huge hit.
14 Likes
I would say that it is constructive.
The initial question of this topic is broad in the sense that it only asks us to consider which trilogy, overall, is of better quality. Therefore, although we cannot compare the finer details of each story due to such limitations as the difference in genre and setting, it is possible to examine other aspects of game and story quality. For example, does the game allow you to play as the character you want? Do the characters in the story interact in believable ways? Can you sympathize with them? There are others, but I won’t list all of them.
Especially on a forum where so many of us are storytellers ourselves, in one form or another, these are topics that I think are worth discussing.
We shouldn’t be afraid to use any given story as the basis for such discussion just because it is written by someone with a certain amount of clout and reputation. It’s not as if we are being disrespectful of their stories or them.
It’s good to praise them as you are doing, and I don’t think there are many here who would disagree with you. But this thread isn’t about giving the authors of these stories praise.
2 Likes
The issue is that these can be discussed in their own threads. I mean looking at the thread currently, it’s mostly people criticizing parts of HR’s writing in a way that could (and probably should) be done in a thread specifically for that purpose. I don’t see the benefit of a situation where the point of the debate is to put down one series to hold up another, and generally that’s how “which is better, x or y” arguments tend to go.
I could see this argument if it were more focused–put the superhero games against each other to see who had the more effective wordbuilding, or use of powers, or which fantasy game incorporated magic in the most interesting way, where comparing the way different authors tackle similar problems could lead to some interesting discussion and brainstorming, but as several others have said this issue is ultimately going to come down to personal taste, not only in genre (superhero vs fantasy) but in style of game design (story focused or stat focused) and trying to decide which is better written when they’re intended to be written very, very differently isn’t really going to lead into constructive debate. It’s apples and oranges, as they say
6 Likes
My only point is that this thread is not useless. As I pointed out, there are ways in which the writing can be compared in ways that don’t really have much to do with genre. I’m certainly not aiming to put Heroes Rise down. I simply think it has more problems. And if people want to discuss things that affect the quality of Heroes Rise in a thread aiming to measure the overall quality of Heroes Rise, i wouldn’t call that a discussion that would be better off in another thread.
Your points that it is going to come down to personal taste don’t really apply so far, as no one so far has said ‘I think Heroes Rise/Lost Heir is better because I like superheroes/fantasy more’. Nor is the one about story/stat focus, because Lost Heir is actually also quite story focused, which you will see upon reading it. I would say that the people criticizing it’s stat system are simply saying that they find it doesn’t work as well with the story compared to the one in Heroes Rise, which is a valid criticism with regards to quality of the game.
1 Like
I do agree that we maybe should make a thread to compare the superhero games against each other, additionally.
1 Like
Are you speaking of Versus or Community college Heroes