Gladiator: Road to the Colosseum (Out Now!)

This is a very common misconception regarding the Roman world, as far as I have seen. Poligamy was in no way common practice among Romans. Sure, they cheated on their wives (which is not to say that the wives received the same social acceptance when doing so), just like in our times couples keep cheating on each other, but in no way was two wives a thing, nor even living with two women with whom they had romantic relationships, that’s just wrong. What they could do, was having sexual relationships with slaves and prostitutes without it being seen as actual cheating for the most part (I guess the wives had a slightly different stance on it, but Roman society, just like almost every society in past history, was structured around men).

So, no. Polygamy should in no situation be portrayed as common in the Roman world, not even emperors did that, and they had quite the freedom regarding sexual behaviour (which isn’t to say that they weren’t criticized because of it).

Btw, @idonotlikeusernames, it should be noted that the legal status of freedmen (and even some slaves) and their real dependence regarding their former masters didn’t necessarily mattered, many freedmen enjoyed quite the actual liberty in practice (we should remember that the big majority of the middle class in the city of Rome, by the first century BC, was made by freedmen, because they received the skills to be so during their period as slaves, hell, freedmen - and their sons - had most of the political power outside the elites by the period of Pompey and Caesar). I am not talking about gladiators, those were mostly considered “tainted” for the most part because of their close proximity to death, and their lack of skills (besides being gladiators) put them in an especially precarious situation regarding their dependence on their former masters. Just saying, you seem to enjoy those topics. :smiley:

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Yep, I do I knew most of that stuff already. I did already mention before that most of Rome’s merchants, who did form the lower part of the elite were either made up of freedmen or descended from them. Everything you mention was true, but our mc and their dependence is a special case. Besides I’ve read somewhere that those freedmen who became really wealthy within their own lifetime were again often called upon to finance some of their former master’s ambitions (mostly of the political nature). And my mc does hope to make it as a merchant, since he’d need the money and connections to exact his revenge on Kraterous and his family.
In the game though our mc’s would be a special case, even if the author does break with the taintedness and the very limited kind of manumission gladiators slaves could obtain in real history (they essentially became free but were forbidden to settle in or near Rome and essentially became legally incapable of administering their assets without their technically former master’s or the state’s consent).
The closest modern comparison would probably be if a minor became the heir to an immense fortune since they would not be legally capable of administering it without their parent’s or guardian’s to do so, even though the fortune and its assets are legally and technically their property.
Most importantly, unlike most other freedmen that legal incapability extended to not being able to designate an heir, so whether or not the children of former gladiator slaves, no matter how wealthy inherited anything at all depended upon the generosity of their former masters or the state.

Lastly even if the author does go the Ben-Hur route of manumission few former slaves would probably be as (in)famous as the mc by the time they are finally manumitted and mine really doesn’t want to be stuck running a ludus and training new meat for the meatgrinder, while only being able to spend what remains of his own winnings on frivolous things and decadence.
That fame, particularly if the combat/death stigma isn’t attached to it in this universe might want to make our former master’s milk that (legal) dependence for everything it’s worth.

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Edit: sorry for the wall-of-text, I got a bit nerdy with this discussion :frowning:

That did happened, but you need to remember that loans in Rome weren’t seen as we see them today, they weren’t merely a business transaction in our modern sense. When they involved the elite (and of course the equites and the senatorial class were a very close and linked elite) it was a matter of amicitia (yes, friendship did included financial help) and personal bond. It was a situation that interested everyone. The one who asked for the loan because he got the money for his enterprises (politics, mostly, even if Cicero did asked his wife for loans to buy “just one more” rural villa, lol, and capital was always an issue in an agrarian society) and the one who granted it because the one who asked became bounded not only regarding the specific amount borrowed but also because the “banker” was making him a favour, thus strenghtening their amicitia. And we should remember that having an important senator by one’s side opened a lot of doors (social ones, which opened a lot of business oportunities, and even more direct business oportunities in the provinces the senator was sent to govern and even state-level closer to home).

So from the perspective of the rich freedman, having his former master, a senator, asking him for money was never a burden, but a huge oportunity. And much of their wealth was even built on those connetions with a senator and the consequent business oportunities. Getting under the wing of a not so unimportant senator was always good business, and the freedmen recognized that. As I said, different perspective regarding loans, wealth and “capitalism”.

Yep, so were grave diggers and every other professional activity that had intimate contact with death (not soldiers, those had collective forms of purification), which isn’t to say they weren’t respected by society, they were just too poluted to inhabit inside the sacred frontier of the city.

This was the real issue freed gladiators had, because Roman society was especially sensitive with the necessity of having an heir, due to the importance of the cult of the dead. But we should remember that most gladiators were prisoners of war, enemy soldiers to be more precise, since children women and “weak” or “educated\skilled” men had much better prospects of having a good life. One of the freedmen of Pompey, a rather famous freedman that wrote a book defending Pompey’s memory against the treatment Sallust gave the dead enemy of Caesar, was, for example, a captured Greek (from Athens or close to that) prisoner of war, he was enslaved as a child and ended up being educated as a grammarian and living a quite comfortable life as a slave and, after that, as a freedman and famous grammar teacher (in a house previously owned by Pompey).

Enemy soldiers being given the chance to make a fortune isn’t that bad, at least not as bad as ending up in the fleet ir in the mines, or being sacrificed (yep, Druids and Germans and so on, I am looking ar you guys). It sucks but they had a very particular background for the most part. Not that I am trying to defend slavery, just trying to put the status of the former gladiators in perspective. Ancient World was profundly violent and unfair. Your MC is bound to be miserable, maybe going the Spartacus way or just try to run isn’t such a bad option (the punishment isn’t nice, but your MC is stuck in a quite shitty situation).

I am hardly sure of his plans, just remembered to drop by, but going unrealistic with the status of freed gladiators might not be a bad idea, it’s not that readers would held it against him. Historical fiction very difficult to work in a non-dark way for the audience if it is meant to be experienced as a RPG, especially for characters in quite shitty situations to begin with.

You seem to know more about gladiators’ legal status than I do, so it seems useful to ask, did that control over the freed gladiator passed from the former master to the master’s son when the master died? Because the regular freedmen’s connection with his former master’s house usually ended when the master died, it wasn’t hereditary in either side (there is some debate regarding this, but this seems the most probable scenario).

It should also be noted that the gladiator could had established a personal bond with his master. This is especially probable for the Roman world because of the lack of racial (Rome didn’t had racism) or any inferiority-kind of justification for slavery. Slavery, and the difference between a citizen, a free man, a freedman and a slave was purely based on law, with the free man being the dominus of his own life and the slave being characterized exactly as someone who wasn’t dominus of himself. Being a slave wasn’t even about having a master or the said dominus over one’s life (hence the not so few slaves without a master), it was merely about not being one’s own dominus.

So, the gladiator’s former master wouldn’t necessarily go against the gladiator’s wishes regarding his heir, not only because of the personal bond they possibly established but also because of his own reputation. Let’s just say that reputation was a big thing for Romans, and being known for negative actions was highly avoided by almost everyone whenever possible… There is a reason satire was so popular with Romans, they never missed a chance to make a joke or criticize others.

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I’d have to root up the attic to dig around for my collected notes and the textbooks on Roman law and the cases covered, mainly to be assembled into the much later Codex Iuris Civilis (so they already had a filter of later Roman times applied to them) but I can’t recall that particular situation coming up. However since gladiators, even as freedmen were legally incapable historically I would guess so. The other freedmen were at least legally competent in their own right.
Again the the closest analogy I can think of is if our modern minor billionaire’s parents or original guardians died the guardianship would be passed on within the family perhaps even to older siblings who have already reached to age of majority. With this crucial distinction that our manumitted gladiator would never attain legal majority no matter how old or erudite they might get, in contrast to our modern age where in most legal systems the only acceptable reason for continuing guardianship after majority would be severe mental incapacity.

Going ahistorical with the tasks they were made to do in pleasing their patrons would in fact be a necessity to fit within CoG company policy concerning non-consensual sexual acts. But yeah, going for the Ben-Hur type of manumission would probably be most satisfying story-wise, even if it is historically inaccurate. Besides it might also be better for the story if the mc can stay in or near Rome where much of the action likely is.

Oh, since my mc came from the dirt-poor background then provided he survives and the author goes for Ben-Hur style manumission then his life, in material terms and opportunities at least, would have hugely improved. I mean it would be the equivalent from mr. Bieber going from a kid with a mom on welfare to becoming well the annoying human being he is today.

This is true, but unless the author goes with the Ben-Hur and Hollywood type of manumission for our mc any fortune they might “earn” would be largely worthless to them because of the tremendously limited amount of things they’d be allowed to do with it.

Also mostly, but probably not always true, since you just mentioned Cicero wanting it for much more frivolous reasons that would likely have generated no or very limited opportunities for the lender, particularly if the lender hadn’t been his wife but a now wealthy former slave of his.

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Well, Cicero would hardly call having a ton of villas frivolous, just good taste :stuck_out_tongue:

But there is where you are seeing the loan from the perspective of modern days, where exchange of influences is even a crime. For example… And taking Cicero as a ficticious example…

There follows the ficticional story of Idonotikeusernamus, the famous roman freedman\trader\banker (just a funny way to show how being a freedman of an important senator had its advantages, I put it under spoilers because it’s rather long and possibly too off-topic, I hope you don’t mind the whole Idonotikeusernamus thing :stuck_out_tongue:) :

Here it goes, it was a fun thing to create

You were one of Cicero’s freedmen. He realized your potential and promoted you inside his household and its slaves. You ended up gathering enough money and Cicero’s good-will and now he will show everyone how great and rich his wife he is and how he doesn’t care about wealth… So he takes you to a censor ir anyone in charge of the community’s oversight over its freedmen and citizen and now you are free! Better yet, you are a Roman citizen! Sure, you can’t stand for election, but who the hell has money for that? Those damn electors aren’t exactly going to vote on an unknown dude, especially one that doesn’t have a buttload of money to buy their votes. And hey, you can always sell your vote! Great!

So, now you are setting up a small shop, and imagine that, Cicero even helps out with that! Maybe by convincing the owner of the shop to rent it for a low rent, or maybe by speaking about your shop to his considerable network of friends and followers. The dude might be as snob and elitist as they come, but at least he treats well his former slaves, as any good Roman should.

A few years pass and now you have become a wealthy man. But you want more. Maybe you should get into the whole trade thing, supplying Rome with something, and Rome does need those damn constant imports. Cereals? Great, Roman can’t have enough imports of it… How the hell are you going to do it? Well, maybe a trip to good old Cicero will be of service… It turns out Cicero served as a quaestor in Sicily and has some great connections there. Import business it is. Cicero is such a great dude, he even advanced a small part of the cash necessary and in return he will get 10% of the company, which, of course, no one knows, because senators aren’t allowed to get into trading.

Some more years pass… Business is great. You even got into the banking business, sure, senators very much prefer to get loans from Crassus and get into his very deep pocket in exchange for voting in some bills he presented other senators but business is good. Rome is thriving and there is money to be made everywhere. Sometimes you even manipulate cereals’ price to gain another small fortune. Sure, the mob gets violent and there is blood on the streets, but chaos is a ladder, right? Still, you want more… Maybe becoming a publicano would be nice, receiving some contrats for public constructions or, the jackpot, the collecting of taxes in the East. You can already imagine money raining from Juppiter’s sky… Imagine that, Cicero was just sent as governor to Asia Minor, a very rich province, maybe something can be arranged… And it just was! Turns out Cicero’s wife finally cut him off, and he has just heard of a beautiful villa somewhere in Italy, you can’t have enough of those, can you? So you loan him the money, it will be years until he pays you back, if ever, but in return he got you some great commercial opportunities in Asia, and he even abused of his power to make sure those money-making oportunities were so great that your networth just increased by 300%.

Life is good. In your old age it turns out that Caesar got killed by some ungrateful bastards, Cicero started to talk way too much about the wrong people, dreaming of saving the whole Republic from Antony and be praised by everyone (the dude cares too much about glory for someone who sucks at anything military related, does he not?) and got executed. Augustus, Antony and Lepidus decided to order the execution of some thousands of important dudes and it turns out your name was in there! Not because of Cicero, but because they need money to pay to their gigantic amount of legions… You ended up surviving that, turns out giving them half your fortune and using your contacts with the cereal trading business to make sure Rome kept well fed was enough for them to let you off the hook… And hey, that Augustus does seem a rising star, does he not? Sure, he is a bit uptight and way too ambitious and cold, but how much money could you make with his protection? The sky is the limit! Literally, because there are no flying boxes that allow people to travel the same way birds do, that my friend, is another story.

And this was a very crazy story about Idonotikeusernamus, the famous freedman whose story was fabricated reached our days just so that I could have some fun showing how good could a relationship with an important senator be for a freedmen or any other equite.

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@TheNobleOne
Hey! Thanks for dropping by and playing through the WIP, really appreciate your kind words of encouragement :slight_smile: They keep me going when I’m staring at a wall of text questioning my life choices HAHA.

Yes I’ll try to throw in environmental descriptors and elements to make the immersion more real. And yes haha there’s definitely a lot of comic potential. Thanks for the feedback!

Ah yes, I definitely intend to up the ante soon (; I’m halfway done writing some of the new scenes, and hopefully they’re gna be steamy and exciting. That being said, I’m still bound by CoG’s rules and common sense (I want to keep it teenage friendly). But yes haha I will definitely be adding some of that (and leaving the rest to your wild imaginations)

Thanks for the comments! Really appreciate it :smile: Cheers mate!

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Hey! Thank you so much :smile:

I think most of it has already been said, but yes I probably won’t include polygamy, but I won’t rule out polyamory. But again, it really depends on your decisions and how you charm your way into the hearts of the girls/guys in the game

@FaustXIII well that is true too. So marriage would probably be quite difficult, but intimacy outside of marriage was rather commonplace in that time. Especially for widows. I’ll definitely be exploring those options, but again, limited to CoG’s guidelines and general common sense hahaha

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Hahaha I really enjoyed that short backstory! Haha you should consider writing something of your own :smile:

Anw, to weigh in on some of the matters that @idonotlikeusernames and @ruhenri have discussed.

  1. Sexual deviance in the story - CoG policy and general common sense would push me away from including too many explicit scenes in the story. Especially scenes depicting the lack of consent and general lack of choice. The story is written with a wide audience in mind, including teens/kids (I loved gladiator stories growing up) so while there will be certain risque scenes, I’ll tend towards writing that leaves more to your imagination.

  2. Wrt to polygamy, I believe that monogamy was the general practice of the day, but many men and women were polyamorous (also dependent on their social status and personal values). For this story, as in real life, I intend to keep things open ended, but multiple marriages is probably something I don’t want to delve into. (imagine the kind of dialogue that would come up. haha)

  3. @idonotlikeusernames has a great point wrt the political implications of owning a prized gladiator. Much akin to how the rich of today own football clubs as a display of their status (or simply for political reasons), ownership of a serial champion gladiator would only serve to elevate the master’s status. Hence, it would be prudent to manage the relationship in a manner that will be befitting to your long term end goal.

  4. I think the point on deviating from the dark, sombre mood of actual history is really valid. But that doesn’t mean that there won’t be any kind of tragedy or sadness. Ultimately, I hope to recreate a narrative that would immerse the reader in a realistic setting, but I must remember that readers would more often than not apply modern values and morals to their decisions and perspective, so there will be a need to tamper and dilute anything that might be overtly offensive.

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If you want it to be historically based, you can’t even consider multiple marriages. There wasn’t a single citizen in Ancient Rome legally married with 2 other persons. No one. It wasn’t allowed. Even having a concubine living with you would lead to a great deal of social discrimination and even other, more serious, problems, especially regarding the total disprotection of your concubine regarding the law. Roman society was family and marriage based. A concubine had no place in the legal view of a family and household structure. Family, it’s structure and it’s hierarchy, was central in Roman Law and daily-life.

Seriously, I don’t know where this vision regarding Ancient Rome came from, but it will hurt the otherwise historically-loyal game. Romans were very conservative, despite the increasing “easternization” of customs during the Middle to late Empire, but even then something like that would be highly frowned upon and had no reflection in Roman Law. Quite in the contrary.

Seriously, my honest advice is to don’t follow that path, it’s ahistorical.

Congrats on the rest. I have been buried in work but I come here from time to time and your WIP os becoming one of my favorites you have been doing a great job. I am already a fan!

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Hahaha yes, that was my intention. Unlike in China where having concubines was somewhat of a matter of social leverage, as well as a status thing for powerful people like the emperor, the social constitution of marriage was much more pronounced in Rome and Greece.

But being married =/= being faithful I guess. There was still a lot of debauchery going on, just not overtly.

Thank you so much for your help and encouragement! I’m really glad that you like it! (:

A big part of this is also down to both @idonotlikeusernames and your insights and commentary so its been terrific so far!

I totally feel you. Keep going at it and the holiday season will soon be upon us! :smile:

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Indeed. Lots of debauchery in the period of the Empire, especially within the imperial court. :smiley:

I’m just sorry that I don’t have the time to help out more. But keep on writing at your own pace and according to your own preferences, it’s really good so far :smiley:

He is a great guy. This entire forum would be poorer without him. :wink:

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Just reporting a small bug:

During the scene that describes your childhood friend I got:

Dionysia has a sharp, well-defined nose that is planted between two sculpted cheekbones. she is blessed with a set of perfectly hued, well-balanced lips which has a glossy allure to it that you could not understand. Well, best friends are allowed to admire each other, aren’t they?

The “she” in the second sentence should be capitalized since it is starting a sentence.

Also disappointed but not surprised that all three male ROs are the lowest in the poll.

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Hahaha no no you’ve been really helpful!! Just playing thru and validating the setting is great help. I’m considering pushing out chapter 4 soon, and then recruiting a couple of ppl to do beta testibg for the last chapter (chapter 6). So if you’re interested, lmk!

Totally agree. I see him everywhere its insane how he has the dedication to do so.

@markamadeo
Great catch! Thanks for reporting the typo!!! Its super helpful (: hope you enjoyed the game!

Ah yes im slightly disappointed as well. But given the game premise and male majority audience, i’m not too surprised. Still, if you have ideas for the male ROs, i’ll be happy to hear you out!!!

Why are you disappointed?

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Hmm, good question. When I started out, I wanted to give an equal experience to both male and female MCs, regardless of their orientations. But it seems like, perhaps due to my inexperience or lack of focus, the narrative tends to favour the male MC’s path, with the female MC’s (and subsequently the male ROs) perhaps being neglected or undeveloped.

I think a big part of it stems from my writing style as well, and branching while developing each character is tough. When I write, I normally write from the male perspective, and then go through the narrative again to create the female narrative/ branches. So it’s an interesting insight, not enough to warrant me changing things around too much (if not the timeline will just get really messy) but it’s definitely a great lesson to learn from for future projects

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I’m disappointed as well, of course.

Well not everywhere, but I read and process fairly fast and often take micro breaks for my sanity in between reviewing various legal documents.
As for this game specifically I used to love ancient history. If I could find a way to make money doing legal history only I probably would.

You know that male RO’s are not solely of interest to female players, I hope.

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I am actually pretty happy with the options that we have for now and I wasn’t critiquing you about the male ROs. At the moment I tend to prefer both Titus and Decius (the two lowest lol) and they haven’t really done much in the story yet so I don’t really have strong opinions on anything in that front. I guess I was just trying to (passive aggressively :slight_smile: ) point out that most people who play these games are either straight males or lesbians and wanted you to take that into consideration. That doesn’t mean that people don’t like the male ROs, its just that the majority of people who play these games are going to like the females. If you want a sense of which romance options people find most interesting you may want to separate the polls by gender or better yet sexuality. Right now Horatia seems to be the least popular female romance option, but maybe if you would take the polls you may find that she is the most popular with lesbians, just there aren’t as many lesbians taking the poll as straight males.

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@idonotlikeusernames
Hahaha well still, that is quite incredible how you maintain such a conscious state of mind despite holding down a full time job hahaha.

Ah yes, don’t worry I’ve got you covered :wink:

@markamadeo
Hmm it is true that they aren’t featured much in the story yet, apart from very calefare parts → kind of how it would have been like, a master’s son would have little to do with a slave. But yeah I guess that makes sense. Haha I do data science I should know better hahahaha.

But of course I would love to conduct deeper polls, but the polls on this forum are a little cranky and it’s hard to segment the data and get quick numbers. Which is also why feedback is always great and helpful! hahaha. But yes, thanks for that insight, it does make a lot of sense :smile:

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[Update 11/11/17]
Chapter 4 is finally done!!!

Yay take that procrastination / work / school / life! Anyway. It’s not super long (20k words) and I’m guessing there will be issues with it (most of it was written by a sleep deprived intern in the midst of taking exams) So please let me know if there are any typos or errors!! And any comments on the story would be awesome :slightly_smiling_face:

EXCITING NEWS
I will be running a closed beta test for the final chapters of the story in late dec/jan (hopefully), so if you’re interested to join in the beta test, do drop me a private message @nauhziy. I’m looking for really in-depth and constructive feedback so if that’s up your alley, let’s do this! If not, I’m going to release the content eventually so you won’t be missing out either! (:

p.s Also, I noticed there are 8k-ish clicks and 30k-ish views. Which is really crazy and exciting! Thanks everyone for supporting this and keeping my ego afloat with well timed encouragement during times of duress. :smile: :smile: Yall are awesome!!!

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I love the story but a big problem for me is how my character is pushed towards a romance with her male best friend. Is it possible to be able to choose the gender of MC’s BFF??? Iwas able to choose options for women in the first chapter or two but then there’s all these scenes that seem to really be making MC fall for the best friend and I’m just wondering if it’s at all possible for my character to be gay? The gender of MC seems to be slipping into dude pronouns, and with the RO options I’m unsure if it’s just because the writing hasn’t been edited enough.

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