February 2021's Writer's Support Thread

[Eiwynn]

@Franzinyte

I feel like I only post in the Support Threads once a month voicing out how disappointed I am with my own WIP, but whatever.

Hi – we are here to support each other … I think your post is a wonderful start to discuss things that bother all of us.

First my general response:

I share your anxieties. I’m working on a project that I’ve invested over 300,000 words into (so far) and it is in a niche genre, but “in theory” should be attractive to cross-genre readers. I even had a trusted alpha reader express their concerns about this being a niche game.

Yet, I keep working on this and will not let it go, because the need to tell this story grows greater in me each day.

As a niche game, the testing will be ultra-important. You are discovering this importance for your project. As the writer/developer, you are going to have to be very explicit and very focused on how you communicate with your readers/testers.

Concerning your vision… you have to really get into the details with your general readers — yet you are going to have do so in a way that treats them gently.

I’ll continue this in a bit, but for the moment, take your survey results and come up with follow through questions you can ask key readers you have established a bond with…

I have several key readers, I will go back to time and time again to get more focused feedback from… try to establish a bond with a few of your most dedicated readers… don’t ignore everyone else, but use these focused readers as a way to further filter the feedback you start with.

[Lucid]

@Franzinyte

I feel like I only post in the Support Threads once a month voicing out how disappointed I am with my own WIP, but whatever.

I hear many people losing motivation after sharing their WIPs. It’s a real shame, but that’s me too.

I started the Lost Heir and recieved so much negative feedback, I stopped. I went and wrote Life of a Mobster instead. Luckily for me, I had a few people asking about Lost Heir and saying they liked it, so I returned.

I basically did the same with Life of a Wizard. I wrote the entire game before sharing it with anyone. I was a forum lurker and didn’t even sign up for a year. I pretty much finished the game first and then joined.

So, here I am, 7 games and almost 10 years later, and I still don’t like to share my WIPs until they’re finished. I find that I don’t want to spend hours explaining what I’m going for or how it will look in the future. I’d rather finish it and show it. And then, if I miss the mark, I can edit and change things.

I know that most people would say that you should share it early so that you can incorporate big changes, and I get it. Maybe it’s my own fragile ego or lack of ability to explain a cool concept, but I sure find it easier to finish the story and then share it.

But most important, with absolutely any system, remember that this is supposed to be fun. You can’t please everyone all the time. Enjoy the process, enjoy the writing, and know that you’ll find an audience for your work. Take the feedback, make the changes YOU want to make, and create what YOU want to create.

And yes, like @Eiwynn said, the people in this forum are awesome and supportive. Stick with it, it’s a lot of fun.

[Lidell]

February has just started and I can already see that this is going to be a month of little to no writing. I simply can’t find the time or the energy to write while going to college. Hopefully I find out how to balance out my energy levels so I can continue writing.

I’m going to be keeping my expectations low for this month. If I finish anything, be it an extra or the chapter it’ll be a success, even just 1k words would make me happy right about now. My very ambitious goal is to finish preparations for a marketing campaign I want to do, but we’ll see if I find the time.

@Franzinyte You’re not alone in feeling this way, I do and probably most authors do too. I’ve noticed some of them started a long time before me (like started posting about their wips on tumblr and got a following before publishing the demo here) or the romances start earlier, so I try not to think too much about it, but it does get disheartening when people start sharing all of these rec lists and you’re in none of them. Even when you’re in a genre that most seem to like (like romance), it’s difficult to stand out.

In my opinion, surveys are a good idea. Some people are shy, or simply find it easier to answer a survey, so I think it’s nice to have it there, just in case. Maybe add more questions related to the specific areas you want help with.

But in the end we just have to keep doing what we love, and if you love writing don’t let anything stop you.

@Eiwynn How would you establish a bond with a reader? Do you just contact them and ask them if they’ll be interested in reviewing a future update?

[hustlertwo]

@Franzinyte and @Eiwynn Comparing WIP activity is absolutely natural, and can be beneficial for motivation if you’re a competitive sort (I know I am). But if you are doing a story outside of the main ChoiceScript genres, you just need to accept a few things deep, deep down:
-It will almost certainly never be as popular, especially on the forum (which is a decent but still imperfect measure of overall story success, since some of our people are just built different compared to the overall gaming populace in their tastes and preferences from years of consuming large quantities of IF)
-It probably will not make you a lot of money
-This absolutely does not change that it can be a tremendously good story that can earn its own cadre of diehard fans and give you the creative outlet you need.

There are always exceptions, but as a general rule if you want to write something that is not supernatural, fantasy, heroes or romance (or some variation or combination thereof), you don’t need to do it for commercial success or popular acclaim. Both will be wayyyyyy harder to get. You do it because it’s a story you truly believe needs to exist, and if it only means something to fifty people, well, that’s fifty people that you touched and it’s something to be proud of.

[Jose_Garcia]

@Franzinyte Hang in there! I really feel for you and I know exactly how you feel.

Sometimes no feedback or attention is a signal that the story isn’t “biting” people. 99% of the people on these forums can’t tell you how to fix your WIP and most of the 1% who can are too busy. Most of the time the feedback is silence. It’s painful and I know how that feels.

Genre and title don’t matter. IMHO. Neither does the premise. Execution is everything. Some ideas are harder to execute than others.

I’d recommend Brandon Sanderson’s lecture series if you’re feeling stuck. I recommend the first three lectures, I guarantee you that he probably is covering things that a lot of us are struggling with.

There’s more to being a writer than writing. There are a lot of meta-skills to writing you need to master before you unlock your potential. You can do it alone, you can reinvent the wheel but it’s a lot easier to do it in good company.

When I encounter setbacks I like to go for long walks and mull it over. I switch to another aspect of the WIP that is “doable” that has momentum and I do that. I watch lectures and read blog posts with advice that speaks to the problem I am having.

Recently I solved a massive problem with my WIP simply by spending ten minutes reading two blog posts about Romance Plots and then going for a long walk to think about my wip in light of what I read.

[Eiwynn]

@Lidell

@Eiwynn How would you establish a bond with a reader? Do you just contact them and ask them if they’ll be interested in reviewing a future update?

I establish a bond in any way I can …

One of my alpha readers is a friend I made while playing WoW … we shared a common interest in MMO gaming, dog shows and when I mentioned I was writing, she showed interest and I asked her to read over some of my writing…

Another of my alpha readers gave me devastating negative feedback on one of my romance scenes I first wrote back in 2015… I wanted to explore her feedback, because I could not see what led her to that… and now she is one of the most rock-solid testers I have…

I have asked a couple of published (non-if, non CS) authors to read my alpha demo of the game I mentioned above… and they agreed to do so and I received brilliant feedback from them.

Asking is essential.

Asking does not always succeed; I ask many people that say “yes” but then for whatever reason (illness, new job, forgetfulness, whatever) they never do…

Sometimes you exchange with them… you read/test their work and they do the same for you.

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Now for part 2 of my reply to @Franzinyte –

@Franzinyte

The TL;DR of the post was that I’m disappointed and discouraged at my project because 90% of the new WIPs are getting more attention despite having less wordcount and being out for a way less amount of time.

This is something I see a lot of, and I think it’s very important to address:

The majority of the gaming world loves chasing after shiny new things. This is true for all gamers and all types of games.

The multibillion dollar Cyberpunk 2077 just recently released AAA graphic game actually was made to have a shorter main story arc, because many people never finished the main story arc in their previous Witcher 3 game.

As @hustlertwo says… each of us (myself included!) need to always keep our eye on our own projects – if you believe in your vision of your project, and you keep that in focus, then you will complete the project.

@Lucid’s way of writing and testing is not something he had ready from day one… he has worked very hard in figuring out what works best for him.

My own system is a mix between what I did before in both development and in testing… I build specific stages of the game and then test them. This system has milestones which I work towards completing, then I get feedback, process that feedback and then I build the next phase of the project.

A collaboration project will be an entirely different experience. I am sure @Jacic would be willing to talk on this issue, because she has a lot of said experience.

[AlejandroC]

My goal is to write at least another 5k words so I can finish the prologue. Gonna be hard though, university is keeping me busy right now.

[Lidell]

@Eiwynn Thank you for answering! I’ll take your advice to heart, especially when I’m farther into my game and testing gets too difficult.

[poison_mara]

Would you want that I give you feedback? Accept means to hear sincere feedback without a filter.

[brushmen]

@Eiwynn

Sometimes you exchange with them… you read/test their work and they do the same for you.

I second this. I’m not very good at giving high or mid-level feedback, but I have exchanged my time with other authors for their time reading and giving some amount of feedback. (both giving and taking feedback can be labor-intensive)

[armadillidium]

I went and wrote a piece of the climax to act one. …And chronologically I’m only barely two chapters in. It’s fun, though. I don’t know if this entire exchange will make it into the story because only those two characters involved in it know what actually happened. But I’m the writer, and I’m omniscient, so why not?

What everyone else outside, including the player character, knows (they’re occupied with plenty of their own action outside to check up on what’s happening at the moment) is that there’s two people are in a room, there’s a gunshot, and one is now dead. To everyone else, the surviving guy can say whatever he likes and there’s no one left to refute it…

@Franzinyte

I just realized, I don’t care much about being as active or successful as the more popular WIPs, I’m more frustrated by the fact that I’m getting little to no feedback at all even when I’m asking for it

Yes, this. I understand that writing feedback takes time and effort, so I greatly appreciate any that I get. If things are genuinely that bad, then as the author I would like to know so that I can make improvements. Not pointing any fingers here, but I’ve noticed since my dA days that art/creative communities seem to prefer giving praise than criticism.

[Ellery]

@Eiwynn

Eiwynn tip: When cutting code and/or prose, I often document what I am thinking with a comment, because often if I go back, I do not remember why i did something…

This is a great tip! I should do it too thanks for sharing!

@Franzinyte
It’s good to get things out rather than to keep it inside. Many others have shared really helpful advice, and I’ve just a small thing to add, if I may:

@Franzinyte

It’s hard to have any discussion, and I have lots I want to talk about.

I’ve noticed that some authors have tumblrs, where they are more active there. Anyone can share asks, which the author answers, and discussions take place outside of the forum.

Perhaps this platform can be something to consider?

[Shyranno]

A bit of a tangent from the above discussion but… dang. I’m currently in a bit of a pickle with one of my characters. It’s frustrating, because they’re literally one of the first few characters I came up with for the story. I adore their concept–a cheeky, apathetic, lazy, but extremely brilliant colleague of the MC, who’s seemingly lost all motivation to work. And I know exactly what they look like in my head. BUT I can’t quite get a proper hold of who they are inside yet. Their core. What drives them, what makes them act how they act. Oof.

It’s a pretty harsh contrast to the other characters who emerged almost complete with their voices, mannerisms and backstories clear in my head. I know the key to good writing is to “kill your darlings”, but this character is… important, I feel, to balance out the tone of the story. To move it from being something saccharinely sweet and cutesy to something possibly bittersweet, and with a bit more depth. I just can’t figure them out just yet.

Aargh. Who are you, character?! Reveal yourself to me, damn it! I need to tie you to the themes of the story and to other characters properly!

Edit:
Just for fun, here’s the annoying little sucker. Male form–he’s gender flippable. Name’s Indigo.

Indigo the ennui-ridden goblin who'd really rather write DnD campaigns than do his job

Ugh. This character is LAUGHING at me. So close and yet so far.

[AChubbyBlackCat]

Been mostly active in beginners writing discord server, sort of. Wrote 325 words tonight.

Question for all: how do you write good tension? Do you have any tips?

There are two mini scenes before the tension spikes in the third mini scene and then action kicks in. The mini scenes are short but I give the reader options to interact in the second scene (namely with a family of raccoons munching on a pizza). I want the second scene to act as a sort of bait and switch before the third and final scene where the tension finally spikes, but I’m not sure if this’ll deliver the way I’m hoping it will.

Before this, I wanted to lull the readers into a sense of complacency and trick them to forget about the creeping sense of tension that’s been building unawares in their mind. I hope…

[SpokesWriter]

@Franzinyte

The TL;DR of the post was that I’m disappointed and discouraged at my project because 90% of the new WIPs are getting more attention despite having less wordcount and being out for a way less amount of time. (And don’t get me wrong, I love some of them). I’ve had this experience before, and I know I shouldn’t look at the numbers, but it’s just hard not to when some need less than a week to overtake you. Like, what am I doing wrong?

My first WIP thread (which included a finished game, more or less!) had 22 total posts, and ~10 were mine. I muddled through anyway, eventually submitted it to HG, and sold over 1000 copies my first month. I obviously don’t know the secrets of harnessing forums attention but I can promise you can succeed without it.

That said, feedback is important and it looks like there were a good amount of people that expressed interest in your thread. Not sure if they all ended up flaking or whatever, but you certainly grabbed the eye of a lot of folks. Maybe try following up via PM or email? I agree with you 100% though–there’s always this ugly part of me that gets jealous when a new WIP pops up with three hundred posts, fanart, and a booming patreon or something overnight. I’m generally happy for other writers’ success but… yeah. I want attention too! We’re human! If I crack the formula, I’ll let you know

[Jose_Garcia]

@AChubbyBlackCat Tension comes from stakes. It’s a seemingly simple question but the answer isn’t so simple.

What’s at stake in the scene? Why do we care?

If there isn’t tension in the scene then you may have to look at the scenes leading up to it. Have we established something that the reader cares about? Is the reader emotionally invested in the story? Is there something at stake in the scene? These are easy questions to ask but the answer isn’t simple.

[Rinnegato]

Happened something funny yesterday evening;
We had a guest for dinner, at a certain point we talked about what I’m doing, when (among other things) I said “I’m writing a book” my mother said “a book? It’s more an encyclopedia. It looks like The Lord of the Rings” (first famous fantasy that came to her mind)

[Gilbert_Gallo]

Cpome on @poison_mara you can do it!

And the same goes for everyone here.

Keep on writing, but most of all, you gotta show the world what you did. Everybody here is waiting to read your stories!

[poison_mara]

That is not true by any means. Each time I have posted a wip or something similar ended up with my heart broken.

Probably my fault for being shit. So I really focus more on helping others than anything else, as I am not going anywhere myself.

[Gilbert_Gallo]

Imho that’s not true. I read your stories and I liked them.

Besides, negative feedback will help you improve. Positive, pointless feedback are useless imho. I’d love to have “negative” but useful feedbacks over positive, useless feedback.

And we’re here for you, to help you improve