Yeah didn’t get to that point. I’m not gonna play a character who can’t have a mature conversation with their (apparently now ex-) partner.
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We probably don’t want to keep this going for too much longer, not unless we take it over to the actual game thread - I don’t wanna piss off the mods - so the last thing I’ll say about it here is that I don’t blame you for not being into the relationship dynamic. The MC is something of a doormat, on top of not being able to have nature conversations with people, and besides that, the relationships… don’t really improve. Your romance options are your ex, which, you see how that’s going, and the members of the heist team, whose personalities range from “meh” to “psychopath”, for me at least.
Anyhow, I’ma stop now, we should let the thread get back on topic.
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Whoops, as I posted my reply. Sorry, bad timing on my end!
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In other words, most RomComs in existence. Stalk your chosen partner no matter how many times they tell you to go away to show how much you care until they come around. People love that in reality 
(Yeah I know, I don’t get it either but it is a common trope in stories and movies. It’s so frequently done in a way I don’t like though.)
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In fact, another thing I hate is when the protagonist /MC is a doormat and is completely passive or/and dependent on love interest. That’s why I started hating YA and New Adult. The protagonist is a total moron in most cases and must always have an alpha male to protect her or treat her badly. Ok, I also love the trope of the love interest a bit 'detached or initially unpleasant, but from this to the toxic relationship passes us an abyss.
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This reminds me of when I happened to see Twilight. (actually I did studying while an older cousin of mine watched it on the TV we had in the room). Here comes the scene where Edward tells Bella that he is stalking her and when she doesn’t get pissed off but accepts it I exclaimed that she’s a jerk. My cousin gets offended and starts screaming listing all the qualities of the two assholes. The beauty is that many if you try to criticize this trope insult you and take offense.
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Love triangles, almost every time it is extremely obvious who the MC is going to pick and are just dragged out for pointless drama. Also, they should be called love angles since its two people trying to get with the same person.
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Here’s one I see mentioned in the “tropes you love” thread, which I hate and which spoils all fun for me:
- Redemption arcs for villains, especially if they’re ROs. Please for the love of God, there’s a reason why I fell in love with them AS VILLAINS. Don’t be so cruel and let this very love be the one thing that ruins and changes their character now.
And EVEN WORSE: When they suddenly grow a conscience and end up going all “Boohoo what have I done” all the time.
To play devil’s advocate: If you don’t believe in some afterlife, why would you even want your beloved villain to start feeling regret? Why would you want them to feel miserable all the time? It doesn’t help anyone and doesn’t undo whatever they’ve done!
No, I’m all for respecting their needs, welfare and natural habitats instead! If you love your villain, clean their weapon, hide the bodies, praise their evil laugh and pray for some lightning, so they can look cool while further practicing their laugh from within their highest tower!
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I’m going to, AMAZINGLY and UNCANNILY, agree with Hayden here. Redemption arcs are bullshit. Bad people don’t suddenly stop being bad people because twu wuv or, so much worse, the evil emperor suddenly realises that the gazillion peasants he’s been killing had kids and now all the kids are orphans. If your villain doesn’t realise the people they’re killing have families, they’re morons, and morons are not scary villains. Because they’re morons.
No, no, a REAL bad guy will stab those peasants knowing fully well they have kids, and if the orphans get too whiny, blades are reusable. Nobody needs the headache of a bunch of kids crying all night.
This, THIS is a bad guy:
Otherwise, you don’t have a bad guy, you have an edgy dorkwad.
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I HATE it when authors write really long and awkward dialogues and think they’re being so deep and edgy but end up copy-pasting Jughead Jones’s I’m a weirdo monologue. Especially when male authors write female characters in that way when they talk about feminism but REALLY miss the mark because no one speaks that way and if anything it just makes them sound pretentious. Bonus cringe points if the setting claims to be historically accurate.
It just really disappoints me. Especially if it was a story I was looking forward to because it had so much potential. My tip is to always say the dialogue out loud to see how it sounds like. And if you’re writing a woman, ask women for feedback and listen.
One more thing is when authors don’t let me be a petty mean bitch that turns into a big softie (aka my favorite trope) because they love their characters so much that they give you the option to be mean but immediately punish you by having other characters rip MC a new one and have them just turn into a teeny tiny kitten that can’t speak for themselves.
If you want an MC that acts exactly the way you want them to, THEN DON’T WRITE AN INTERACTIVE NOVEL.
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…you know, now I actually want to see a game where the MC literally turns into a kitten every time when they are yelled at.
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I don’t think the problem is necessarily that redemption arcs are bullshit, it’s that so many redemption arcs aren’t actually … arcs. We’re given some big epiphany and that’s it, Bad Guy is good now. In a real redemption arc, a person’s character and habits and fundamental worldview don’t change overnight, even if they have had an epiphany of sorts. They have to deal with cognitive dissonance and the sunk cost fallacy, and that’s probably going to mean a few setbacks or stopovers on that road to redemption. They’re going to be forced to try to prove themselves to new allies who have good reason not to trust them, while still mourning the friends they lost when they changed sides. There’s all kinds of compelling story potential there, but relatively few writers are up to the task of writing a real redemption arc.
Of course, I’m not saying that every villain can or should get a redemption arc. Some most definitely shouldn’t. But if that’s the route an author truly feels the story needs to go, it needs a lot more time and effort put into it than pulling off a black hat and putting on a white one.
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using a misunderstanding as a conflict to fucking force two happy couples to fight. like for fucks sake, please stop. its so predictable. like whats the point in trying to destroy an already happy relationship? i pisses me off so much and to see it be dragged out so long when all they honestly need was to talk to each other.
childhood friend to lovers. no offense to anyone who likes this but i think i just see them too easy to romance imo. i think its just that i dont feel the same way the mc feels cause in the end, i dont know bat shit about them. i only honestly pick them sometimes when the option to be dense about youre feelings is there but other than that, staying as friends
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I’m reading a story (it’s not a Choicescript game) in which every formerly evil character’s redemption arc is basically “woah those guys are stronger than my boss so if I join them I don’t need to pretend to be evil anymore, even though my boss was never around when I did before anyway.” It was definitely the strangest attempt at a redemption arc I’ve seen. But I like the story overall, and I mostly chalked it up to poor translation (author is not a native English speaker and sometimes context gets lost). You could try to say they were never evil and were just scared to disobey orders, except, that’s totally false because they all disobeyed orders all the time.
I suppose that could be what’s going on in this story, but if so it doesn’t really come across very well. What makes some sense is if their initial reasons for switching sides were purely in self-interest, and then they decided they actually liked being good – but the reader never sees their internal thoughts about that part.
Leaving my thirst for evil guys aside, one major issue I have with redemption arcs is the following:
They always feel like giving up, like an author doesn’t know what else to do with their villain except for making them “good” in the long run, or have them die. And it’s obviously what many people enjoy and want to see, maybe even more so in movies.
But no villain, aside from really cartoonish ones in kid’s shows or stories, is just evil for the sake of being evil. And I’m not trying to get at the “tragic childhood” trope here, what I mean is, from their point of view, they’re often not even doing anything wrong or unjustified. (Yes, there is that kind of person who is fully aware of what they’re doing and enjoying it regardless, yes, and these can be the most intriguing “human monsters”, because they are so far removed from our own inner workings and values that they seem like an enigma.)
But why, instead of coming from the moralizing angle that ends in a change of heart and leads to regret, not have a villain change their goals and have them align with those of the heroes, due to yet again very selfish reasons and for personal gain? Of course, in that case the “redemption” part of the redemption trope would be missing, but it would be so much more interesting for a reader like me for example, who still wants to see their original personality shine and doesn’t want to see them turn into a castrated shadow of their former self. They could join the main party, help them out, but not out of regret, but because of a pure, calculated re-evaluation.
That would be a compromise I could live with.
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When a remake of something tries or looks likely to try and force a romantic relationship that was only in apparent subtext in the original that we ultimately know won’t go anywhere (unless the new writers intend to pick the always popular ‘subverting expectations’ option that all fans are happy with).
…
(Then again I am probably a hypocrite since I liked Sokka more with Princess Yue over Suki in the original so… 
)
I haven’t seen it in years so my memory may be a bit fuzzy and I might be wrong, but one of the best redemption arcs that spanned across literal seasons that I can remember is Terra from Teen Titans. The amount of inner conflict I remember happening in her arc was actually insane for a kids show (iirc).
One more thing is when authors don’t let me be a petty mean bitch that turns into a big softie
If you want an MC that acts exactly the way you want them to, THEN DON’T WRITE AN INTERACTIVE NOVEL.
I agree and disagree with this. On one hand, if an author can’t fathom the MC acting more than one way in the story, then yes, I definitely see that as an issue. However, I also think the personalities the author lets the MC choose need to be able to fit within the tone of the overall story.
I was going to make it so the MC in my story could be cold and shut off, but after thinking it over I decided against implimenting that specific personality trait because it is, to it’s core, a story about empathy and grief, and cold and rude definitely doesn’t meld well with a team of people that are going through a loss.
For an example more people will be able to relate to; it would kind of be like in Wayhaven if Sera wrote in an option that allowed the MC to say “I don’t care that people are dying, they should learn how to protect themselves, it’s a dog eat dog world.” Doesn’t really fit the whole ‘detective trying to protect their town’ vibe.
So yes, I agree writing in different personality traits is definitely important, but not if they directly conflict with the tone of the story.
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I pretty much agree with you there. Yes, IF is supposed to be interactive and so you shouldn’t make it so there’s only one possible personality for the MC, or no meaningful choices. But I’m a strong believer in the idea that authors should be allowed to limit the number of possibilities to things that logically fit into the story they’re trying to tell.
If every possible personality or ideology was implemented, no IF would ever be finished. And if one was, it would be a jumbled mess of confusing character portrayals. Might be funny, but it wouldn’t make for a very compelling story.
You can throw out a few options without making a story linear.
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Shutting off is one way to deal with grief though?
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