Choice of the Vampire - community input [SEE POST 1305]

[Pat_Grant]

where can i get link to the beta?

[Koda222]

Pretty sure jason sends put the links personally and privately.

[HerrEulenspiegel]

Going back to the bit I mentioned some weeks ago on the ‘Ms’ business. Given the times and her marital status ‘Mrs’ is more proper:

[HerrEulenspiegel]

@jasonstevanhill I was curious about the tour of New Orleans with Withers. An Indian character generally has the response of getting very angry and gets a rigorous tongue lashing. However once, and I don’t have a screenshot unfortunately, the Indian character responded to Withers’ scalping comment by saying that Withers’ people hump sheep, or something to that effect. I wondered what the character’s statistics have to be to get that response? I’ve maximised the character’s willpower at 3 but it didn’t seem to trigger that response on its own. Also, perhaps some consideration could be put into adjusting those statistics as it is nice to have the Indian character holding her own.

I do have a screenshot though for a correction. In Deutsch Bat is spelt ‘Fledermaus’ not ‘Fliedermaus’. In the event of a German character you could amend the dialogue to mention Aichinger and the former communicating directly in German, particularly in moments where the two don’t want to be overheard by someone else.

PS: Speaking of the Indian Character I had this encounter with Ashmore. Now our Ashmore is a southern belle of many talents but speaking Choctaw? That said, it is a surprise and you have events in mind that we have yet to learn about as players.

PSS: The Indian response from above. My compliments. I’d like to know the dividing line that causes the Indian character to respond to Withers with this:

PSSS: Here my character is the spawn of the Priest in circumstances where the former killed the latter, This text needs revising considering the Priest never became Praetor.

Also silence is golden perhaps:

[jasonstevanhill]

@HerrEulenspiegel

In terms of what else could be fixed I was wondering it struck me as a tad odd that when a character increases his perception, or his connections to the criminal underworld (streetwise) or intelligence beyond the checkpoint just after leaving St Louis leads to the character becoming more anachronistic. I would have thought that improving one’s skills in such things would actually make one more aware of the surrounding world.

You are quite right. Fixed.

@HerrEulenspiegel

Another thing, and it might seem minor is on the ‘Ms’ prefix for some characters. I think it might be a tad early historically for, Mary Shelley to be referred to as Ms when she was Mrs, or our American Indian character to be using it say or Dido or even Malloy (the bearded lady too) as professional women of the period often used Miss or Mrs professionally regardless of actual married status in the 19th and right into the 20th Century (and even now of course).

Some people did, some people didn’t. I’m going to use Ms. for a single adult woman unless they specifically choose to use Mrs.

@HerrEulenspiegel

And finally, perhaps there might be some place for the fleshing out of different Vampires attitudes on homosexuality? Of course a concubine or ‘playmate’ as it were of the Dominus has a certain enhanced status in the Society, regardless of sex. And there are hinted relationships, such as between Stone’s Delfino and a certain Senator which are hardly regarded as unhealthy. But as Pickering, Samantha, a certain Louisville denizen and others carry certain racial and religious prejudices into their immortality and plenty others fall short of the Ancient ideal of looking above, the affairs of mortals, it might be good to add a few bits and pieces, here and there on the subject.

The short version is that gender doesn’t mean anything to vampires. They realized long ago that it’s just a performance. Moreover, the Society was founded by individuals that were centuries old when Christianity was founded; Christian mores have little sway here. At least, for the inhuman ones. The more-human/younger ones may or may not retain the prejudices of their mortal days, as Withers and Harding exemplify.

@Jake8517

Now, i assume its supposed to say something like M"s. Wither explained my needs to you right?" Yet i don’t get that.

Good catch! Fixed.

@Jake8517

Also, though i would have no idea what could cause this, Whenever Thomas attacked Franklin while we are at St.Louis. I .having started a cult, try to recruit him. Yet this cause the tab the game is in, to lock up. where as i have hit the next button and it hasn’t go to the next page, nor can i change my choice. I wasn’t able to get a picture of it though i will try to replicate and get an image

Dammit, I had a looping bug there. Fixed.

@HerrEulenspiegel

However once, and I don’t have a screenshot unfortunately, the Indian character responded to Withers’ scalping comment by saying that Withers’ people hump sheep, or something to that effect. I wondered what the character’s statistics have to be to get that response?

Compassion > 40, Willpower > 1, Charm > 2.

@HerrEulenspiegel

In Deutsch Bat is spelt ‘Fledermaus’ not ‘Fliedermaus’.

Thank you!

@HerrEulenspiegel

PS: Speaking of the Indian Character I had this encounter with Ashmore. Now our Ashmore is a southern belle of many talents but speaking Choctaw? That said, it is a surprise and you have events in mind that we have yet to learn about as players.

Huh. I don’t know what I was thinking, but I do specifically call out that if you speak English and are Choctaw, you get that line. I’ll add a little more color and then think about what I intended there.

@HerrEulenspiegel

PSSS: Here my character is the spawn of the Priest in circumstances where the former killed the latter, This text needs revising considering the Priest never became Praetor.

This is a great catch. It’s going to create a new fork in the story, though.

@HerrEulenspiegel

Also silence is golden perhaps:

Are you saying you’d like the option to say nothing?

[HerrEulenspiegel]

‘Some people did, some people didn’t. I’m going to use Ms. for a single adult woman unless they specifically choose to use Mrs.’
A noble sentiment indeed but within the context of the time period ‘Ms’ really is still an early 20th century creation in the form we know it. During the time period of the game so far it was the habit of many professional women to use Miss, regardedless of martial status. And really, Mary Shelley would be Mrs considering she was married to Percy Shelley. It really is immersion breaking to have Ms use in the modern way during the 1830s. And an Indian female going from Mademoiselle, the French Miss, to Ms also seems inconsistent. And if we can have talk of ‘Christkillers’, ‘redskins’, blacks called apes and so forth then it’s seems a small but important thing to use the prefix customs of the period. After all, these characters are not paragons of virtue and I’d hardly want Miss Harding as a dinner guest! Although Esterfarnia sounds most enchanting…

[HerrEulenspiegel]

And yes I’d love the option to say nothing! When Bailey and so forth are talking about bringing West to heel a certain type of vampire would prefer to say nothing and let those more fool [sic] of themselves spill their thoughts. I can be neutral in the Caucus, obfuscate, lie and so forth, so let one be silent and lie like a snake in the grass until the time is right.

[jasonstevanhill]

You are right about Shelley. I’ve fixed.

Where is Harding referred to as “Ms.”?

[jasonstevanhill]

Just pushed an update. There are changes to 37 chapter files.

[jasonstevanhill]

Pushed another update. 7300 words, a significant chunk of which is a new scene in New Orleans.

[Wyatt_Lewis]

Alrighty so I’ve been playing CoV relgiously for the last week and after all that I have a few suggestions and questions! I’ll separate all these by game.

The OG: No matter how many times I play this game, it remains one of the most compelling CoG ever and so all these are very minor things.

• In St Charles there is a moment where you go to help a wounded man and end up losing control and feeding on him. It would make sense to be able to avoid this with Willpower 3 or higher
• Again in St Charles, eventually Jesse or Estefania will come to deliver a message from New Orleans and we have the option of ambushing them. Even with Fighting 3 and a high Strength and Agility we get our ass kicked. I’m not suggesting that we should be able to defeat them but maybe having slightly different text if you have high combat stats where we put up more of a fight
• At the very beginning of our arrival to New Orleans where we have to deal with Cecil Lynch it doesn’t make much sense that we can only kill him if we go feral. It would make more sense if we defeat him in combat at all we have the option to kill him, despite our master’s orders, or demand that he leave. In addition, if we let him live and explain the 3 Rules it would be awesome if we could demand a debt. Even if we never see him again, it would be a nice little option.
• Along the same lines as my last point, it would be nice if every time we defeat a vampire in combat there was be a specific option to either just kill them or intentionally drink their heart’s blood. If this was the case then there could be a little thing in the stats menu that displays the number of vampires which we’ve killed in this way. This would give more choice to how we deal with whoever the rogue Memphis vampire is for example.
• Finally, Vicksberg. This whole part feels a little rushed. It would be nice if there was something to get us invested in the city before the seige begins. Maybe some mortal affairs like preparing for the seige or funding the construction of a new church, etc. During the seige I wish there was at least one opportunity to either help or hinder the attackers. This could be a great chance to make Intelligence/Creation useful if you direct your soldiers to build traps or barricades. Or it could be a good moment to use Shapeshifting to scare Union soldiers and lower morale. Obviously none of this would turn the tide of the seige but it would make us feel more involved, more like we’re fighting for our home.

FoM:

• Fall of Memphis is such a fantastic game it’s hard to find anything to apply constructive criticism to. The only thing I can say is that I wish we had time to talk to more of the assembled vamps. Maybe not time to talk to all of them but the ability to talk to 3 or 4 every meeting would be lots of fun
• I spoke earlier on how the ability to drink the runaway vampire’s heartsblood would be a nice addition
• It could be interesting to incorporate some use of Shapeshifting/Perception during the gatherings to try to overhear conversations
• I do wish there was a tiny, tiny bit more downtime. Currently it feels like the PC is just passing through rather than fulling inhabiting a city for years. The options are all there, so for example if we had the ability to intimidate the Spencer Sisters AND nurse the ill that would add a lot

St. Louis:

• The Cults are a fanatastic new mechanic and I definitely hope that the will be expanded. For instance it would be interesting if we have Lore 4 or higher we could make a cult with the purpose of researching vampire origins
• Since the PC has become more powerful by now, it would be great to have moments where we could show that off. The combat encounters are fairly limited throughout all three games and this would be a great moment to demonstrate how badass a character who has focused on certain stats could be.
• Opportunities to use more niche stats like Shapeshifting and Finance would be greatly appreciated. Because this installment is very focused on mortal beaurocracy it would make sense to do things like invest in the city or found a competing hotel/speak easy in the city which you could later encourage Memeskia to rellocate to.
• Again, the option to fight and maybe kill other vampires would be interesting especially if the PC believes in order to face West, they have to give in to their more savage nature. There are a lot of vamps in St Louis and it would certainly raise the stakes if we were able to take out Aichinger or Sabine for example
• Opportunities to create some progeny that might actually survive a little bit would be awesome. Maybe Amanda or even our servant (Maeve, Ernst, etc.)
• When Amanda tells us that our cult treasurer has been skimming, all of the options make Del take up the role. Maybe an option to hire someone else or if the PC has a high Finance, they could take a more involved role in the cult’s finances

Like I said earlier the game is fantastic and St Louis seems to be coming along beautifully! In addition I know that you have a lot on your plate in terms of work and CoV is not necessarily top priority. I am so, so excited to see the game progress!

[jasonstevanhill]

@Wyatt_Lewis

In St Charles there is a moment where you go to help a wounded man and end up losing control and feeding on him. It would make sense to be able to avoid this with Willpower 3 or higher

Part of the problem, I think, is that players need to understand that they’re not superheroes. You’re right that a Willpower of 3 should let you avoid this in a normal situation, but you’re hungry in that scene.

What I’ve done is make the earlier scene with the Labranche boy and his lamb tougher; if you have a low Willpower, you just drink him dry. That should make this scene make more sense.

@Wyatt_Lewis

Again in St Charles, eventually Jesse or Estefania will come to deliver a message from New Orleans and we have the option of ambushing them. Even with Fighting 3 and a high Strength and Agility we get our ass kicked. I’m not suggesting that we should be able to defeat them but maybe having slightly different text if you have high combat stats where we put up more of a fight

Fair. I’ve added a little fork.

@Wyatt_Lewis

At the very beginning of our arrival to New Orleans where we have to deal with Cecil Lynch it doesn’t make much sense that we can only kill him if we go feral. It would make more sense if we defeat him in combat at all we have the option to kill him, despite our master’s orders, or demand that he leave. In addition, if we let him live and explain the 3 Rules it would be awesome if we could demand a debt. Even if we never see him again, it would be a nice little option.

Ok, I’ve added the option to kill him directly when he’s pinned.

As for the debt…the problem is, that segment gives a free point of Lore. Getting a free point of Lore and a debt seems like too much.

@Wyatt_Lewis

Along the same lines as my last point, it would be nice if every time we defeat a vampire in combat there was be a specific option to either just kill them or intentionally drink their heart’s blood. If this was the case then there could be a little thing in the stats menu that displays the number of vampires which we’ve killed in this way. This would give more choice to how we deal with whoever the rogue Memphis vampire is for example.

Is there an instance where you’d like to drink someone who you can’t/that you think you should be able to?

Although…I don’t see why I couldn’t let you kill Dido at the end of Memphis. Her living/dying is already a hard fork through the rest of the game. You killing her or Carothers killing her wouldn’t be that hard to manage at this point.

@Wyatt_Lewis

Finally, Vicksberg. This whole part feels a little rushed. It would be nice if there was something to get us invested in the city before the seige begins. Maybe some mortal affairs like preparing for the seige or funding the construction of a new church, etc. During the seige I wish there was at least one opportunity to either help or hinder the attackers. This could be a great chance to make Intelligence/Creation useful if you direct your soldiers to build traps or barricades. Or it could be a good moment to use Shapeshifting to scare Union soldiers and lower morale. Obviously none of this would turn the tide of the seige but it would make us feel more involved, more like we’re fighting for our home.

Hah, well, that’s going to have to go on the “nice to have” list. Vicksburg was always a late addition to V1. I’ve thought about expanding it into a longer piece, but on some level I want to keep going forward rather than continuing to add to the old game(s).

@Wyatt_Lewis

Fall of Memphis is such a fantastic game it’s hard to find anything to apply constructive criticism to. The only thing I can say is that I wish we had time to talk to more of the assembled vamps. Maybe not time to talk to all of them but the ability to talk to 3 or 4 every meeting would be lots of fun

Thank you! I wish I could make it so you could talk to more people, but the combinatorial explosion is too much to handle.

@Wyatt_Lewis

I spoke earlier on how the ability to drink the runaway vampire’s heartsblood would be a nice addition

You can! Maybe you just haven’t found how to, yet? Or maybe it’s a bug and that section is unreachable…

EDIT: No, it’s not unreachable. I suspect, however, that you’re always playing the same way, which is to turn Wilson/Anselm yourself. Now, you can argue with this logic, but it goes like this: if you got sick with the yellow fever yourself—because you turned Wilson/Anselm and he infected you—then you won’t consume him. But if the plague-bearer is Hugh, or if Withers is the dominus of Wilson/Anselm, or if you’ve vegetarian (and therefore didn’t drink Wilson/Anselm’s blood before turning him) then you can consume the plague-bearer.

@Wyatt_Lewis

It could be interesting to incorporate some use of Shapeshifting/Perception during the gatherings to try to overhear conversations

There are a bunch of moments where you can/do overhear things and/or intuit/perceive things with Perception already. The may not be explicitly called out (“with your sensitive ears…”) but they’re there.

As for Shapeshifting, you’d have to point to specific moments where you’d want to use it—and how.

@Wyatt_Lewis

I do wish there was a tiny, tiny bit more downtime. Currently it feels like the PC is just passing through rather than fulling inhabiting a city for years. The options are all there, so for example if we had the ability to intimidate the Spencer Sisters AND nurse the ill that would add a lot

More downtime! Oh, man, I just keep adding more scenes to this game’s downtime!

Look at it this way, as I get on to Chicago, I’ll still be adding scenes to these first three games to build in the backstories I need there.

@Wyatt_Lewis

The Cults are a fanatastic new mechanic and I definitely hope that the will be expanded. For instance it would be interesting if we have Lore 4 or higher we could make a cult with the purpose of researching vampire origins

I don’t think you’re going to like where they’re going, but I’m glad you like them so far.

@Wyatt_Lewis

Since the PC has become more powerful by now, it would be great to have moments where we could show that off. The combat encounters are fairly limited throughout all three games and this would be a great moment to demonstrate how badass a character who has focused on certain stats could be.

There’s some combat in the climax of the game.

@Wyatt_Lewis

Opportunities to use more niche stats like Shapeshifting and Finance would be greatly appreciated. Because this installment is very focused on mortal beaurocracy it would make sense to do things like invest in the city or found a competing hotel/speak easy in the city which you could later encourage Memeskia to rellocate to.

There are lots of opportunities to use Finance in St. Louis! Are you using the same basic character each time? Maybe you’re just not seeing certain scenes. As for Shapeshifting—again, call out specific moments when you wish you could use it.

@Wyatt_Lewis

Again, the option to fight and maybe kill other vampires would be interesting especially if the PC believes in order to face West, they have to give in to their more savage nature. There are a lot of vamps in St Louis and it would certainly raise the stakes if we were able to take out Aichinger or Sabine for example

That’s an interesting theory. I’ll have to consider it.

@Wyatt_Lewis

Opportunities to create some progeny that might actually survive a little bit would be awesome. Maybe Amanda or even our servant (Maeve, Ernst, etc.)

Alas, those characters all serve a purpose that turning would frustrate.

@Wyatt_Lewis

When Amanda tells us that our cult treasurer has been skimming, all of the options make Del take up the role. Maybe an option to hire someone else or if the PC has a high Finance, they could take a more involved role in the cult’s finances

You already do direct the cult’s finances. But you’re a vampire; you’re not going to sit there and balance the books and write the checks every day.

As for hiring the kid, why would you not want to hire him?

[Kevrj]

*if compassion > 35
#I urge the men to give me the bonds.
*if charm > 3
Entranced by your supernatural charm, they see the logic in your argument. The smallest of the three men, the tax assessor, hands over a satchel containing the bonds.
*goto bonds_acquired

This choice in Vampire 2 does not set the fayette_railroad_bonds to “stolen”

[jasonstevanhill]

Thank you! I’ll push that out in the next build.

[Koda222]

Maybe Silas could gift us a harmonic and we could play it in the party in v2 if we take over planing the party and impress the crowd.

[jasonstevanhill]

New build up!

You can now kill Dido at the end of Memphis if that’s your jam.

A bunch of continuity fixes, bugfixes, a new scene with the non-Governor of Haiti, pocket Silas’s harmonica…

[Kevrj]

@jasonstevanhill Would you consider adding an option to request a debt from Withers, in exchange for hunting down Wilson, when she originally asks in Choice of the Vampire? I know that she offers in Fall of Memphis to MCs who were exiled/made a hasty exit from Vicksburg (and she may be more desperate at that point, which causes her to “sweeten the pot”), but I’d think she’d be more likely to offer a potential debt to an MC that she actually likes.

[jasonstevanhill]

Sure!

EDIT: Well, let me think about that some more before I just say yes.

[HerrEulenspiegel]

Probably missing something but I’m not sure I’ve had the last few updates. I mention this only because, while I keep playing diverse characters, I don’t seem to stumble across the updates you set out. Is there any way of checking?

[jasonstevanhill]

Current version is 19359M.

You can see that on the bottom of the About page.