Choice of Rebels: Uprising — Lead the revolt against a bloodthirsty empire!

choice-of-games
high-fantasy
gender-choice

#1984

No needed Breden as I have never had Breden and I have kenon and weird religion established without any issue. But My game conditions are so weird that I can’t give advice.


#1985

I don’t think Breden even had anything to do with it? After conversing with Linos and him asking to declare me Ecclesiast, I chose to lead my rebels in a path that requires no Ecclesiast and everybody can hear the angels. Then the next morning, my MC just up and declared this, and everybody kind of muttered and went their own ways. Breden wasn’t involved in any way.

Also, I did have high charm.

I haven’t done the Kenon route (yet), so I wouldn’t know if you mixed it up but thanks anyway.


#1986

Wow, I didn’t know that. Thnaks for telling me, Mara :slightly_smiling_face:

Without that, I’d always guess that you need Breden in the group to get Kenon or the new religion established.

Hm… maybe you need an MC who has a lot of leadership in the band? That would be difficult for a high CHA character, since they can’t really go on raids by themselves. And it would explain why everyone just sort of okays the decision.


#1987
For the Kenon route from the source code from the end of the open beta:
  "The only safety from their lies… is in embracing kenon."
  *page_break
  "What are you saying, ${kuria}?" 
  *if bred_here
    Breden 
    *if bred_heart >= 10
      growls.  $!{xhis} own hackles are clearly up at your apparent blasphemy.
    *if bred_heart < 10
      asks levelly.  You can see ${xhim} warily trying to decide whether what you're saying is blasphemy.
  *if not(bred_here)
    young Earnn asks uneasily.
  "Surely we avoid lies by embracing truth?"
  
  "The embrace of kenon is the path to truth, 
  *if int = 0
    *if bred_here
      Breden."
    *if not(bred_here)
      Earnn."  
    You nod solemnly, hoping it seems as obvious to the band as it does to you… because you've got no idea how to articulate the idea further.
    *if elery > 0
      Elery gives a sudden, excited nod, as if something just slipped into place in her mind. 
    *if not(bred_here)
      And to your great relief, Earnn swallows, nods back to you, and backs away.  
      
      The
      *goto restoband
    *if bred_here
    
      Unfortunately, Breden seems unconvinced.  "No, ${kuria}.
      *if bred_heart < 10
        You know I'll follow you into any battle… but
      I won't embrace this kenon business.  It doesn't sit right."
      *if elery > 0
        Elery opens her mouth, then looks at Breden and swallows whatever she was about to say.
      
      Having the charismatic former helot oppose you opens the floodgates for less restrained critics.
      *gosub blasphemy
      *goto visfail
  *if bred_here
    Breden.
  *if not(bred_here)
    Earnn.
  Kenon is the discipline that winnows out lies, even when they're louder and prettier than truth.  It leaves standing only the things we cannot doubt."  You walk up to
  *if bred_here
    Breden, grasp ${xhis}
  *if not(bred_here)
    Earnn, grasp his
  hands. "Believe only what you must—that's what it means to embrace kenon.  Believe what is self-evidently true or proven to you, when your mind is cool and your blood steady in your veins."
  *if elery > 0
    
    Elery gives a sudden, excited nod, as if something just slipped into place in her mind. "$!{he}'s right.
    *if bred_here
      Breden.
    Damn me if ${he}'s not."
    *set e_rel +1
  
  Slowly, reluctantly, 
  *if bred_here
    Breden 
  *if not(bred_here)
    Earnn
  nods…. and the 
  *label restoband
  rest of the band erupts in awed, unsettled conversation.
  *gosub outreach
  "…will you join me on the path of kenon?  This isn't the last time an Ecclesiast will try to ensnare us.  Not to set me up as a false Eclect—they won't be such fools twice."  Now you flood your voice with contempt and
  *if not(notthere)
    menace; Linos' folded arms tighten miserably around his chest.
  *if notthere
    foreboding.
  "Next time, they'll appeal to you, ${addressc}."
  *choice
    #"The priests…"
      *goto psnake
    #"The liars…"
      *set cred_p -5
      *goto psnake
    #"The snakes…"
      *set cred_p -10
      *goto psnake
  *label psnake
  "…will try to get you believing that our rebellion can only succeed when we submit ourselves to their authority.  To their rules.  To their pretense that they alone hear the Angels' voice.  They'll try to entice you back onto their path."  You raise your voice until it cracks.  "This day, this moment, ${addressc}, we need to set our eyes together on a new path.  The one they try to frighten us away from.  The path of truth.  The path of kenon."
  
  "You're telling us to give up the Angels?" 
  *if rescuer = 0
    *if aristo
      helot elder
    Gillian Adze
  *if rescuer > 0
    Ciels
  protests shrilly.
  *choice
    #"There are no Angels.  They're just one of the lies we've been fed."
      *if bred_here
        Breden is only the first to raise ${xhis} voice in outraged denial.
      *if elery > 0
        Elery recoils, her smile shrivelling into a grimace.
      Such blatant rejection of Xthonic doctrine is more than your outlaws can take, even from a leader of your charisma.
      *gosub blasphemy
      *goto visfail
    #"No. But you don't wait for the Angels to cook your meals.  I say, don't wait for Them to show us a way to justice."
      *if elery > 0
        *set e_rel +1
        Elery laughs and shouts, "They haven't done it in three centuries—why would they start now?"
        
        While a quarter of the band grumbles at her irreverence, you extend placating hands and say, "The
      *if elery < 1
        "Three and a half centuries have passed with no hint of deliverance from the Thaumatarchy.  The
      Angels have not set us a path to freedom.  It's one we've been left to discover ourselves.  And as we search, the lies of the so-called priesthood of Xthonos are a snare and distraction.  Only kenon will free us."
      
      Some of the outlaws are still wavering, but most
      *goto sweardiak
    #"No, of course not.  Just don't believe those who tell you they know the Angels' will."
      *if elery > 0
        You can see Elery drinking in the message, and meet her eyes as you say,
        *set e_rel +1
      "Empty your mind of the Ecclesiasts' lies… and I promise you, in that quiet place of kenon you'll be far better able to hear the voice of compassion, of truth, of justice."
      
      Most of the outlaws
      *goto sweardiak

It looks like you need CHA 2 definitely and INT 1 appears to help avoid needing Breden. Then you still have to avoid outright denying the existence of the “Angels”.

Even if my MCs had CHA 2, they still would not bother with that route. It reminds me too much of the Cult of Reason nonsense during the first French Revolution. My MCs would have no interest in replacing one religious superstition with another.


#1988

In fact i created in the beta a weird cult that totally remember me The cult of reason something about water and flowers lol… But i decided that was no Mara choice


#1989

Will be still be able to keep up positive relations with the hegemony priests if we convert the band to one of the 3 different “heresies” in the first game? What about the other religions (Forgotten gods, Theoi, etc.)?


#1990

Absolutely; I’ve done it myself with the Inner Voice. Diakon Edwer was especially helpful in arranging my contribution to the Ecclesiasts’ Retirement Fund.


#1991

@Ramidel’s guide helped crack the mule code for me, now I’m able to do it in my sleep.

Problem is that I feel that this whole, Inner Voice thing feels like Protestant hogwash. Also I like the idea of using the existing power structure to my benefit. Why go and mess with stuff when all you need to do is declare yourself the Chosen One.


#1992

Mara totally is the Shayardene choosen one. And about mules i prefer my total blindness and imagine that my nurse has a fetish for mules. And is so fun due game code is not designed for mara idea of rebellion. But craziness is fun


#1993

Pacifist rebellions work if people care enough that a bunch of unarmed protestors get killed or clubbed.

The Hegemony doesn’t seem to have to worry about that PR disaster.


#1994

I actually opine the same. However Havie has said Mara could have chance. So maybe Mara is like Darth Vader force persuasion also religious tactic is effective too


#1995

If you use the whole religious thing, you can have your followers do all the stabbing while you keep your hands clean. That way technically you aren’t breaking your pacifistic morals.


#1996

Nope THEY ARE STUPID AS HELL. Mules have far more sense lol Also my men have a defend mara suicidal switch like lemmings they launch to defend Me and defeat like two theurģes and monsters lol even if we were like twenty with no weapon except lacoste spears. So maybe Mara is a mystic power lol


#1997

Sorry, my question was a little opaque. I was meaning to ask if we would be able to have a positive relationship with them in future games. Edwer doesn’t seem to represent diakons at-large, as he’ll join your rebellion even if you have low cred with the priests. And as our new religion spreads, the clergy might become less amicable to it (especially inner voice/kenon, as both will displace them from their current position in the social hierarchy)


#1998

No, you were clear and the answer’s yes. You can bribe the priesthood into supporting you near the end of Ch. 1 - Edwer helps with that but isn’t necessary.

@Bryce_Kaldwin There’s nothing wrong with being the Eclect and a good number of things that are right. However, the Inner Voice methodology is a good way of marking yourself apart from the corruption of the Thaumatarchy, not to mention giving you a chance to change the liturgy without Cha 2. I use it as part of a strategy of compassion, particularly on my commoner theurge alt.


#1999

Which new liturgy do you normally go with?


#2000

Depends on what I’m doing. With Ronia Thresher, the liturgy is fire, and then mercy all the way. Alya Seriatou does Water and mixes vengeance in general, middle approach to priests and merchants, and to the nobles, “Vengeance - but to those who stood firm, the rule that is their birthright.”


#2001

I always thought the middle road stuff smacked of equivocation. Religious folk (particularly rebellion against the state types) generally aren’t fond of equivocation…


#2002

Alya’s a noble and a politician, not just a priest and a theurge. She equivocates because she doesn’t especially want to piss off the clergy (and doesn’t want to piss off the merchants) but doesn’t want anyone to think she’s merciful either.

That said, I will probably have Alya go Eclect once I have to make the final decision to carry into book 2, which requires her to keep the existing liturgy. It makes more sense for her to seek a shiny new dictatorship than a koinon or another kind of more inclusive state.


#2003

@Havenstone I got one more question…I’m curious if it will be possible to find out noble volunteer’s or firebrand’s past later on or was sheep raid only chance?