A really interesting story indeed and I appreciate the very complex and internally consistent system for Theurgy. I noticed that the “vital spirit” of breathing is mentioned by Cerlota and I would like to know if in this world does something similar to ki manipulation ( the power of breath, the vital aura ) exists.
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@Havenstone does the Hegemony make plektoi for tasks beyond combat? Are there plektoi for specific labor tasks that humans couldn’t do, or ‘pleasure plektoi’ for servicing the upper castes of the Hegemony, or other tasks Im sure I’m not thinking of?
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I personally rank it as “interesting” more so than “puzzling.” Remember, we’re talking about an eleven-year-old kid here. I think the most telling line follows from “Keep running—I’ll distract whoever’s chasing you.”
The helot shook his head, eyes wide and fear-crazed. “No, child…just run….”
“Go!” Up to that afternoon, your sense of invulnerability had survived unshaken.
Ironically, Ulbern is completely correct. The only way to save you both is to run. There’s nothing else that a mauled helot and actual child can do against two Plektoi and a Theurge. When the Thaumatarchy sics Plektoi on your scent at the end of the game, you have to flee to the Xaos-Lands to get away (as Ulbern does). But a kid doesn’t know that — and neither does a new player.
You can try to save him with “a child’s confidence” and a “sense of invulnerability”: but both of those need to be broken for a rebellion to survive.
The real moment of decision is when you’re stared down by a man who holds your life in the palm of his hand. The only way to save Ulbern’s life is to have the courage to lie to that man’s face for the sake of a stranger. That’s an understated decision, because obviously we’re playing a rebel game, we’re going to lie to the authorities. But for the kid, that’s monumental.
Whenever you try to help Ulbern, there’s only one trail with his blood, and he’s moving slower (and into danger) because he’s doesn’t know this wilderness as well as you do, and then you’re caught along the same path that he ran. But when you run away, you’re going in the opposite direction of him with his blood and scent, and the Plektoi start chasing you. This buys Ulbern a lot more time to get away, and is what ultimately saves his life.
Saving Ulbern requires having the courage to act despite — maybe because — of one’s instinctive fear, and that’s rewarded: both the courage and the fear.
An easy way if you’re just going for the achievement is to have Ciels, be a Theurge, don’t be an asshole, save Pel from the crabs, heal the villagers, heal Veorn’s hand (this is optional, you don’t need to do it), stay, drive the reivers off, don’t stand up for Gredal, and you’ve got it.
In general, don’t stir up trouble, don’t talk to Gredal, help the village, play to the build’s strengths.
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Thanks for the answer! I still haven’t succeeded though, but hey, what can you do, might have more luck with the nomads :p.
A few more responses:
I’ll save the explanation of what’s going on with adamantine stone until we hit Ch 4, when you first encounter it on the “home” side of the Ward. For now I’ll say that producing it is an aether-intensive tech, but not unthinkably intensive nor limited to the mysterious ancients. As for the tower ring around Vigil, I’m not going to add any hints to those already in the text as to its history.
Not at all. Their omission from that comment was because I was responding to a question about the genderflipping ROs. M’kyar is a woman when you meet her, regardless of MC preference.
I will add a horrified MC reaction option for that, giving Cerlota the opportunity to explain that (as @WinterHawk noted) as long as a bit of tunnel-digging near the City-Ward is possible, she should be able to bring it down without a significant likelihood of collateral damage. The MC can of course still draw the line at this and refuse to have anything further to do with Cerlota’s scheme.
Not as “ambassador”, but as heir to the Thaumatarchy, Phaed has traveled quite a lot. They’re more likely than their father to leave the Floating Palace. I’m not going to comment on NB Phaed because there’s still a bunch of work for me to do to get that halfway right. 
For example, I need to do some more work with this:
so it’s not quite so missable!
There’s an aspect of the magic system here that I need to make more explicit–I think a minor tweak or two to Cerlota’s dialogue should be enough, with some more detailed follow-up in the chapters to come.
The ability to perceive teloi isn’t just an automatic thing that happens in trance. Most of what you see in trance is a confusing blur. You don’t see or understand every telos of everything around you. Sometimes an intuitive leap will get you there, but it usually takes careful study before you can recognize teloi enough to properly perceive them, let alone change them.
Some of the easiest teloi to perceive are the elemental ones, and even those require study. (Game One establishes that you did a lot of reading and reflection on the elements before you ever learned Theurgy.) You’ve got a good enough grasp on elemental teloi to notice when e.g. the stone of the tower has been purged of all elements but one.
But going beyond what it’s built out of, if the Tower had a weird and distinctive telos – say, if it was a gateway to Taratur as the MC initially fears, or the linchpin of the multiverse, or something in between – you almost certainly wouldn’t be able to perceive that in any useful form. That telos would be in a category that (at least for now) escapes your intellectual grasp.
I’ve heard articulations of Aristotle in which fire’s tendency to go upward represents the telos of fire… and others in which that’s taken as part of fire’s material cause. It is possible that my gameworld version of Aristotelianism is somewhat conflating multiple cause-types under the label telos, as well as somewhat muddling “nature” and “purpose”. Apologies to my philosopher friends and readers if so.
The Turko-Persian empires of central asia are a central referent for Halassur and Nyryal alike. If all my Turkic names and vocab were concentrated in the antagonistic eastern Empire with high religiosity and rigid gender roles, I hope CoG’s sensitivity readers would flame me for recycling some of English fantasy writing’s dodgiest tropes (as they yet may). Fundamentally, Halassur and Nyryal are based on the same root cultures. The Nyr reindeer pastoralists will end up with more borrowings from Nenets and Inuit material culture, but at the end of the day the Nyr and Halassurqs should be understood as two very different outworkings of the same cultural matrix.
It would be, yes–just very unlikely, which is why I’ve not written it into the chapter.
@mshan95032, there will be no option to be “pragmatically trans,” for the reasons indicated by @apple.
The “vital vapors” mentioned by Cerlota are what we’d understand as oxygen. The Abhuman concept of spirit is somewhat closer to ki – but perhaps only to the extent that there’s a family resemblance between all “breath = spirit = life” framings in cultures that take that seriously. The magic system of the gameworld is I think not really going to look a whole lot like ki energy from any angle.
No–interesting as that idea would be! To keep the worldbuilding manageable (ha! how often will you hear me say that?) I’m going to stick to my line that the Plektast specialists have been entirely focused on military ends, with a sideline in scaring/impressing/repressing the civilian population.
I henceforth appoint @Azthyme to explain all my creative choices.
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So, @Havenstone , now we do know that Hallasurq has rifles, of a kind, and the that Erreziano can produce presumably inferior versions. What I want to know is if Karagond fields their own guns, and if there are any Theurgically enhanced ones- because I’m starting to think a possible path for a COM mc might be founding a gunpowder empire, especially if guns produced from Theurge-run factories is possible.
First though, an mc would need to get shipments of Hallasurq guns and reverse engineer them, no mean feat I think.
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On the first game’s thread, you mentioned that Sereccans had better plektasts than the hegemony, and we could theoretically use that to make superior plektoi, but that they’d get pissed at us for it. You also mentioned making them but not telling the Abhumans. How exactly would we keep that a secret?
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If they don’t like it, too bad. We have Xaos storms now!
Honestly, I could see the right (or wrong) MC becoming worse than Kleitos as scary as that is by the end of all this.
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So glad we’re getting a sequel! For me this has been by far the best virtual choice game I’ve played. I love the world you’ve created, the magic, the diversity, the concept of leading a rebellion, and the relatively simple combat and character mechanics. Some games create too much complexity with their characters and it makes it hard to figure out what your choices are actually being affected by, with this system you generally understand why your choices worked or didn’t work.
I also love your magic system, there’s a real tangible cost (blood) to using it and I think that’s brilliant. I find myself wanting to rip it off in my own fantasy series (HAHA JK!!! But really…)
But most importantly the world you’ve created. The hegemony are great villains, its gritty and brutal but feels real.
This next chapter honestly to me is already good enough to play. I think I found a typo or two but other than that and a few of the missing choices, this would’ve just seemed ready to go to me! I’ve played games on the site that had more errors and were less fun.
After one play through I did have a few minor thoughts: Nireal’s androgynous world seemed new I don’t remember it from the first game? Not that it matters it’s an interesting contrast, to the hallasurq’s wildly rigid roles. I was confused by them getting offended if you ask their birth sex/gender though. To me seems a bit contradictory to say gender doesn’t matter you can be whatever you want but also talking about it is extremely offensive? Like, if it doesn’t matter why should talking about it be offensive? Why be so insistent on being referred to as gender neutral if any gender can be anything? In particular I asked if I could just flip a coin (I was curious what they’d say) and they said “See how I’m not killing you? Diplomacy!” I mean I wouldn’t be anything more than slightly annoyed if someone deliberately called me the opposite gender, so this seemed like a huge overreaction. And at odds with their earlier statement when you apologize and they say "oh it’s fine won’t be the first time. I get that the threat is a joke but they’re a diplomat and between the erets and hallasurq’s and abhumans who all commit a bunch of abominations from each others perspectives. (I mean harrowing and child harrowing are actual abominations compared to self-mutation) and they’re all cordial, the hallasurq’s and nireal are friendly despite their total opposite gender views. But if you don’t refer to Jehavir the way they want they threaten to kill you? That just stood out to me given the fact that Cerlota is tolerating actual baby murderers, and Jehavir is supposed to be a diplomat. A young, perhaps ineffective diplomat but still.
All this to say I think a better explanation of why the nireal get offended if you don’t refer to them the way they want while also insisting that gender is completely irrelevant is needed. And at the very least, the representative of their people in a foreign land should be more patient with people’s confusion. It was just weird that the hallasurq’s are taliban-esque in gender roles but their representive wasn’t threatening to kill people and seemed tolerant compared to the jehavir. I mean I agree with Nereal to be clear I just thought they didn’t come across well as a representative of their people.
The other thing: The hallasurq’s infant killing raises a great question about potentially saving lives but I think the numbers are too skewed in the hallasurq’s favor. I feel like I read somewhere (great source I know) that in some cultures before modern medicine people wouldn’t even name their children until they were at least a year or even 5 or 6 because the infant mortality rate was so high. I got the impression in those cultures (and even today to a degree) the death of an infant was less of a tragedy because they hadn’t been around long enough for people to bond with them. There are also philosophers/ethicists who argue babies aren’t even morally viable at all because their cognitive functions are so low. (I don’t agree FYI) So if a single baby is literally worth ten human lives… I hate to say it but damn those numbers make too much sense. I think it would be a more difficult choice if it was 2 or 3 lives, no more than 5. They might even just take the ruthless approach that if someone is going to be harrowed, even if it isn’t worth anything extra, might as well do it right away rather than wait for people to bond with them.
Also, couldn’t they use magic or a drug to knock victims unconscious while harrowing them? It seems like an explanation as to why the victim needs to be conscious and suffering could be used. Although the hallasurq’s and Hegemoney being too cheap is also an explanation.
Anyway I’m being super picky the story is great. I just can’t wait until the whole thing is finished!
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I guarantee you would be if someone kept doing it. If you said ‘call me he’, and whoever you were talking too said ‘nah I’ll flip a coin between they and she’ and then kept calling you she to your face after you told them not too blatantly ignoring your wishes and the obvious reality of your gender, you’d be a little ticked.
Jev wants to be referred too as o (or they if you insist). It’s very rude to decide someone’s identity for them especially when they already told you what to use, and I imagine they deal with it a lot in their travels. I’d be a little testy about it too.
Gender is irrelevant in cultural roles. A man can do ‘feminine’ things as well as a woman and isn’t stigmatized for such, and vice versa (not to mention the androgynes, and folk like Jev). This does not mean that gender is meaningless to the individual, who can have just as strong or weak a gender identity as anyone else.
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Demanding to know someone’s assigned gender at birth (aka, one’s birth sex) can indeed be very rude. There are quite a few reasons, most related to people often using this information to treat them as said gender or just constantly reminding them of it, which can exacerbate dysphoria (that’s my understanding at least). Real life trans people, including nonbinary people, very often do not appreciate people insisting they mention this.
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It’s 5am. I’m feeling saft. You will not hear from me again.
Thank you for preventing cishattery in my stead. It’s appreciated. Bless you. Thank you.
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NP babe, welcome back.
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Well this is a fantasy world not our world right? I get it in our world if people are using it to deliberately ignore a persons preferred identity. We live in a world where gender roles exist.
But as I understood it this was a culture that evolved to not care about gender at all so why be so adamant about it? Maybe I misunderstood but I felt this could be explained better.
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Does anyone know what decision controls whether Simon/Suzanne is female or male. It always seem to pick the opposite of what my MC is attracted to?
That does kind of make sense. You’d think the confusion would be more mutual. Not sure if is their first assignment outside of Nyr, but we know they are considered young and inexperienced. I suppose Jev is fairly knowledgeable regarding Hallasur, which would necessarily come with detailed knowledge of their strict gender roles.
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Caring about gender roles and caring about gender identity aren’t the same thing. Dysphoria isn’t strictly caused by society.
Opposite of Breden’s.
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This was the list last provided by Havie as of 7/1/2019.
Totally love your explanation; good work!
1- Is the assistance of the drudges/laborers a strict requirement to get this tunnel-digging done on time, or will it be enough for MC to instead ask the Rim Commotion to provide a steady stream of manpower (to serve as excavation crews)?
This could potentially be the biggest payoff of MC following Breden’s G1 Ch 4 advice to “split up and infiltrate”, right? (since that endgame option presumably will (maybe?) yield the largest amount of Rim Commotion recruits)
2- Aside from the obvious option to sever ties with Cerlota (in objection to her “Xaos storm dirty bomb” scheme), I wonder if the other following options are available…
a. High-CHA MC convinces Cerlota that her dirty bomb would ruin all the alliance-building hard work that MC has accomplished in G2 Ch 3 (since most of MC’s Grand Shayard allies maybe(?) have homes/relatives uncomfortably close to the City-Ward, and MC is unsure if he could evacuate those secret allies in time).
MC would also like to make an argument that it would be more efficient (in the long run) to quietly subvert (rather than cripple/terrorize) Grand Shayard, especially since MC has big plans of one day turning Grand Shayard into his future base of operations.
b. Alternatively, maybe a sufficiently Ruthless/pragmatic MC thinks that Cerlota is tipping off her hand too soon, and that it might be a better idea to save the Xaos-storm as a trump card during a future game’s climactic battle (e.g. The Siege of Aekos), where more damage can be inflicted.
Musical mad libs parody time!
Well she sneaks around the world from Aekos to Mlazyc Vale
She’s an Aether-sucking Theurge from Umri down to Laconne
She’ll take you for a ride on a slow boat to Aegre
Tell me where in the world is ̶C̶a̶r̶m̶e̶n̶ Phaedra Sandiego?
But on a separate (and more serious) note, since Phaed is expected to one day rule over (and collaborate with) her subordinate Ennearchs, it makes total sense for Phaed to make tons of field trips getting to know/trust these Ennearchs better.
Speaking of elements, has a comprehensive periodic table been developed yet in the XoR-verse? How close is the Hegemony to discovering or completing said table? (compared to Mendeleev)
Understood, crystal clear. Like I said earlier, I apologize for my suggestion’s implications overshadowing the original intention/envisioned narrative tragedy, and also apologize for not picking up on said implications sooner (before pressing the send button).
Anyways, now that we’ve established “pragmatically trans” as off-limits, I’d like to return to our earlier topics about Shayard and Erezza’s shared “courtly love” coastal culture (and the potential “XoR casting choices for MC’s Lady Jessica, from Dune”).
In the Rim of your youth, the expectation is strict chastity rather than courtly longings; in the coastal culture that extends (with significant variations) from Erezza to Grand Shayard, it’s more common to see variations on the amour courtois ideal.
Is it plausible for Abelard and female de Syrnon claimant (or royal consort) MC (who sees Cerlota as her true “other romantic half”, but still wants to lead the Laconniers, AND platonically likes Abelard as a key political ally) to function as each other’s “Beards”?
(Similar to Margaery and Renly’s marriage (in GoT/ASOIAF): in which Margaery and Renly are publicly married to cement a Stormlands-Reach alliance while Renly’s true love interest is Margaery’s brother, Loras)
(And another “Beard” example that I’d like to cite is Rhaenrya Targaryen and Laenor Velaryon’s marriage (from House of the Dragon): in which Rhaenrya and Laenor agree to keep up public appearances as a monogamous couple, while happily allowing each other to still have lovers on the side)
Alternatively, if MC isn’t a Devout Xthonic worshipper (instead adopting the polygamous views of the Abhuman syncretists and/or Neres), then perhaps the “Beard secrecy” could be dropped altogether (in favor of a publicly known “V relationship” polycule between female MC, Abelard, and Cerlota; female MC would be the “hinge” of this V).
Or would female MC’s paganism/Skepticism be too much of a dealbreaker for both Abelard and Cerlota?
In your current opinion, what would make for a more useful plektoi, a horse or a reindeer?
New suggestion for Game 5 epilogue profession (for a non-empire building MC):
Rehab clinic director (for PTSD-afflicted human Plektoi who have nowhere else to go and are in desperate search for redemption/new purpose)
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I think the section with fleeing the xaos storm on camelback needs some attention. In spite of being COM 2 and learning to handle camels from Heled I keep getting knocked on my ass when trying to pick up my friends.
Well the coin flip remark is obviously pretty rude and flippant. And like others have said here, something like that being said to you once can be slightly annoying, having it said to you repeatedly can be intensely frustrating. And someone who stands out in some way is going to deal with that a lot.
As for getting offended for asking about their sex at birth, would you respond favorably to me sidling up next to you and interrogating you on the precise arrangement and dimensions of your babymakers? That’s a super intrusive question to ask someone you barely know, and disrespectful to their privacy.
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quick question, will we ever get the chance to grab the magic sword we stashed in game 1? very likely it got stolen the moment I stepped away.
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