Honestly rebels is what got me into finally taking the time to find a save editor so same man XD
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If I were to leave Bethune in charge, would she do things to anger the aristocracy against my MC’s wishes? I suppose I can find out which leader does what when the next chapter is released.
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This game is definitely living up to my high expectations and the expansions I spotted on rerunning the Vigil path were great.
I think I encountered a bug for Theurges during the parley between the villagers and the reivers, however. I fired a warning shot and things seemed to be going pretty well, but then it sounded like we’d lost a battle. My abilities were known already if that matters.
A few other minor things: I think someone already mentioned that Zvad is always with the band, I noticed that Breden can now marry players who stood and fought and there were a few instances near the end were options didn’t vanish after having being used during conversations.
Excellent work on the whole, looking forward to more!
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This also occurs during the Sojourn freetime, letting you loop religious options indefinitely. In general the timer seems a bit bugged, its v unclear what does and does not count as an “action”.
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@Havenstone the hair options made me think, what are the grooming standards/norms across the Hegemony? Is long hair equally favored by Shayardene helots and nobility? What about facial hair norms? (Also, have you considered any other detailed customization options alongside the hair options you already added?)
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I had a question regarding the Karagonid name for Abhumans (Apanthropoi). I guess technically it can mean ‘apart from humanity’ but the modern meaning of the word is definitely leaning towards ‘cruel/inhuman’ (the kind of word I’d expect to be followed by ‘barbaric’). Is this a deliberate linguistic choice on behalf of the Hegemony?
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I only know my mc prefers clean shaven and short hair, not quite buzzcut but not reaching past his ears.
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Regarding Xthonic religion: Would it be possible for a compassionate, devout, inner-voiced MC to preach something akin to Christian Universalism? i.e., that heaven is for everyone, and that Taratur is either non-existent, empty, or will only contain Xaos.
Regardless of whether this will be an option in the gameworld, what could we reasonably expect as a social consequence of adopting Universal Salvation? My (admittedly naive) thought is that too many of the crimes/sins as defined in the false teachings of Karagon are there to preserve the caste structure. If people are less afraid of committing those crimes/sins (and of the consequence of Taratur) then the sooner we’ll see the system collapse.
Another benefit of Universal Salvation (as I see it) is that the belief that everyone is inherently deserving of unconditional love in the eyes of Xthonos (I know this is parting from Christianity, where heaven is God’s free gift and grace for those who don’t deserve it, but this is the formulation that my MC would most prefer to promote) would serve as a kind of proto-human-rights: Xthonos’ wish for every soul’s happiness is not just for the eternity but for this temporal life also, and it is His will that everyone has what we modern-day readers would call “the basic quality of life”. (Not to mention the fact that such belief would significantly improve self-esteem in the helot class.)
One concern I could think of this idea is that, without hell as a deterrence, some people might be more willing to commit evils. Still, all things considered, I think the social benefits outweigh the cost, though my MC is sure to lose some followers who take solace in the thought of their aristo oppressors burning forever…
I am also a bit worried about the proselytizing potential of a universal-heaven religion (versus a heaven-and-hell religion). While in our real world the most popular religions (or at least their most popular denominations) are of heaven-and-hell type, I’m not sure if this is just a historical accident, or if the universal-heaven belief is inherently doomed (by facts about human psychology) to unpopularity.
And it would be great if I could know more about the current Xthonic religion, specifically on the criteria for entering heaven. Is it like the weighting of all good vs bad actions they have committed in life? Or is the moral character, the propensity for good vs evil in one’s mind, at the time of death the only thing that count? Or is salvation faith-based like in Protestantism?
I would appreciate and welcome any thought on this, or on any other aspect of this kind of belief that I may not have yet considered. Thanks!
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I think that will fit best in Game 3, once you’ve had more exposure to the other provinces plus Aekos. But we’ll see as I write Game 2 how well it fits. Certainly you’ll be able in G2 to shift in the direction of a more pro-elite, self-consciously reformist rather than radical revolt.
Not sure we’ll ever see this, as such. The Abhumans aren’t averse to udud seeing the light, but they’re unlikely to start a movement trying to win them over. They’re well aware that a massive influx of people could destabilize the Seraccan way of life.
I also don’t think there will be any indulgence system that goes beyond the near-universal sense that supporting your religion is a virtuous act.
I’m not sure there’s ever been a “national identity as found family” movement in real life, on nation scale. The closest you get are settler colonialist countries like Canada or the USA, where national identity is explicitly based on a set of values and practices rather than ancestry; I don’t think any countries with a history of ancestry-based identity have yet successfully managed a shift to a values-based one, as hard as e.g. France or Britain have at times tried. There have of course been plenty of cosmopolitan empires where citizen identity wasn’t linked to ancestry, and that’s the most likely model for anything in the gameworld…but I wouldn’t call it “found family,” which is too intimate a term.
Thanks to you and to @apple – I’ll check those.
In general I’m planning to stick with simple grooming rules and limited appearance customization, so yep, long hair is the cross-caste norm, though many helots end up cutting it shorter for pragmatic reasons. I may leave facial hair norms non-explicit to make it easier for readers with any amount of facial follicles to imagine themselves in the world.
It’s definitely meant as a slur, not a neutral term. “Inhuman” and “abhuman” – not much difference, I think, given the general negative connotations of the “ab-” prefix.
It’s probably true that more demanding creeds tend to be longer-lasting and more popular than “anything goes” ones–though it’s worth noting that a lot of the Christian sectarian data on which this is based is subject to multiple interpretations, and “willingness to incorporate drums” seems to have at least as strong an impact on church attendance as any theology.
Regardless, “demand” doesn’t need to take the form of do-this-or-be-damned…plenty of big religions get by without the prospect of hell haunting their followers, and the most hellfire-obsessed preachers don’t necessarily have the biggest followings. I wouldn’t read universal human tendencies into the current predominance of heaven-and-hell religions (even as a believer in one myself)… too many people have gotten by without that belief for too long for me to consider it a “natural” belief (rather than one plausible solution to problems of worldly injustices that has occurred in multiple contexts).
So sure, you could take a universalist reading of the centrality of compassion in Xthonic religion, and I don’t think that would doom you to irrelevance as long as you gave people some other compelling reason to take part.
The unrighteous are broadly understood as those who commit offenses against order; they’re the ones who can expect to end up in Taratur unless they repent and make due recompense for their wrongs. Different Ecclesiasts would have different ideas on whether moral character or the sum of actions/consequences would be the standard by which the Angels render judgement. Definitely not “salvation by faith,” though…there’s not yet an object of saving faith in the gameworld.
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Will we be able to tend to our private matters in meantime as story progress? I mean things like for example seizing/building some estate and lands for yourself as a noble with plans of restoring your house. And if we won’t be able to do it in games time - would it be possible to at least define such plans as MC, as a thing to do after all chaos is over.
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Awww…my poor mc. Seems like my poor boy will need let his hair grow longer than he would normally prefer in the Irduin and Grand Shayard bits in order to go “undercover”.
Good idea, my mc will prefer clean-shaven. Though I would think the Hegemony may lean a bit more towards clean shaven if the Halassurqs prefer beards because they like to emphasize the difference between the genders much more in their society. 
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“yet”, ha.
About hair, the funniest thing to me is that canonically at 2 CHA with a Theurge-forged sword (if (cha = 2) and tagmasword), our last proper haircut was from none other than Tagmatarch Aletheia, the general sent to crush our rebellion. I’d love it if that could be sneaked in as a brief off-handed reference.
I get the sense that all the choices for hair are probably valid disguises, mostly because it goes against what people would expect, especially right after we return in Irduin. One would not expect a greenwood rebel who fled into the Xaos-lands and back again to have trimmed, well-maintained hair: see how in the aforementioned Tagmatarch haircut, it’s depicted as lice-ridden and “a Nyrish carpet, with the vermin to boot”. Though matted locks are explicitly described as potentially helping an aristo hide their background, there’s no equivalent for a helot. And in the current draft, all MCs (aristos included) had shorter hair before the rebellion.
Which is to say, can we be truly free if our choice of hair is not?
Also, just going to shout-out my appreciation for the reactivity added to the trauma system — our rebels really have been through a lot. Though it’s not currently playtestable, I’m particularly fond of Ganelon’s death being one of them. Ganelon’s death for a (2 INT, 1 COM) helot is my single favorite scene in Uprising, maybe 30% of the reason why that’s my preferred build, and it’s great to see it can have a lasting effect.
And it really adds depth to his last words:
“Would that I had known…what you truly were.” Ganelon’s face contorts with pain. "If I encouraged you in your arrogance, this is my just penalty. How much worse…will your torment be?" The hatred in his stare is unnerving.
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Can we mix in some abhuman beliefs into our religion?
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@Havenstone Would a hypothetical decision to break up great estates and distribute the land to yeomantry/helotry increase anarchy counter? Hypothetically, of course.
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My bet YES. that is destroying not only status quo, but social structures and all way of living. That’s not simple administration is a complete and complex revolution
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Can anybody provide a clearer answer why a helot MC can distract Gellard/save Carles, but an aristo MC can’t?
I don’t quite comprehend why Gellard would be angrier that a helot MC is “singing Carles’ BS” (compared to his reactions towards a singing aristo MC).
1- How do the “strictly only prefer one gender” ROs (E.g. Erjan, Cerlota, Calea) react to MCs who adopt the pronouns/fashion trends of the incompatible orientation gender, but biologically remain as the preferred orientation gender? (e.g. how does Cerlota react to ‘female at birth’ MC who later dresses up/labels herself as a man, but opted NOT to undergo a Theurgic transition)
2- And what does Calea think of “female to male” fully transitioned helot MCs? Will a Calea x trans male helot MC pairing be possible in Game 2 and beyond? (Or will Calea only romance ‘male at birth’ MCs who first caught her interest in Game 1?)
Could this eventually culminate in a Faceless Man-ish revelation, in which the MC concludes that every pantheon’s preferred deity are different facets/incarnations of the same, “Many-Faced God”?
And when all is said and done, where will Phaedra’s place be in (Caroline’s envisioned) Angel’s dispensation?
Might post-Hegemony Phaedra claim asylum in Shayard as Caroline’s “guest”/hostage to guarantee Karagon’s good behavior cooperation with the fledgling Holy League?
From Caroline’s POV, does the urgency to counter Erjan’s heathen propaganda warrant a G2 bump from CHA 1 to CHA 2, or is studying under Cerlota a more pressing priority? (thus warranting a G2 bump from INT 2 to INT 3)
If working with aristos was a complete dealbreaker, Bethune would not have signed up under Homelander aristo MC’s leadership in the first place. “Trust, but verify” cool detachment/aloof attitude (when picking up aristo recruits, if any) might be Bethune’s more likely response.
Which factors (and “apples and oranges” differences) would prevent MCs from adopting Irduin’s model of governance (“enlightened paternalism under the watchful eye of a ruling aristo family”) on a wider, continent-level scope?
And prior to the Hegemony’s influence, how much stock did Wiendrj, Nyryal, and Erezza place on ancestry-based identity?
Could you please inform me how you triggered/encountered those last words? Most of my past INT helot playthroughs (in which my band ambushed Hector) ended up seeing Ganelon’s corpse after the fact, instead of meeting Ganelon face to face.
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I just had a thought, if the MC went down the Kenosis/Kenon route, would the wording change from “speak with the Angels’ own voice” to something that reflects the MC’s skepticism?
This question just popped in my head, it didn’t occur to me when this was first posted.
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I think it makes sense that he’s angrier. I imagine few things in a slave society would make the average free person angrier than a slave defying them. It’s just a matter of how intensely class conscious it makes everyone. A psychological payoff slavery gives everyone who is free in such a society even if they themselves don’t own any is that no matter how far they fall, there’s a whole mass of people lower than them on the social hierarchy. Gellard and his ilk in particular are grasping social climbers who are able to achieve much more status than they deserve under the Hegemony, so they’ll be particularly sensitive to this dynamic.
Haha way too early to say. She knows Phaedra exists and that’s basically all the thought she’s given to them.
In Caroline’s mind the only reason Shayard fell to Karagon was lack of Theurgy, so Theurgy will always be her main focus.
I think that’s probably going to turn out to be the case too.
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To be poetic about my opinions, it’s because They fear the helots. The helotry is a tinderbox for revolution, perpetually smothered with blood to keep the spark from lighting. They know it in their bones, that their whole world is built on this oppression, and even if they choose not to think about it, it’s an inescapable fact of their lives.
“You’ve got a helot singing your treasons?” That’s what Gellard says, because that’s the spark, the treason, the forbidden knowledge. Helots aren’t meant to dream of the world beyond, and they aren’t meant to dream of their heritage and culture. It might make them question if the world really ought to be this way. (This is also a core theme of Stormwright so far.)
And you know what? It was the spark. If he knew the truth, Gellard would rue the day he failed to catch us.
That treason, it’s already embedded itself in the aristocracy. They have the privilege and the ‘high culture’. The deal for Them is to play by the Thaumatarchy’s rules and then reap the rewards under threat of death and replacement. That’s the political context of the Carles prologue, by the way: House de Bors, “heroes of the last great Halassur War”, once Archons of Shayard, accused of treasonous conspiracy by an Alastor captain and destroyed. The Thaumatarchy even considered ennobling that captain with the newly vacated lands. Suffice to say, Gellard would have little to fear from the aristocracy.
But the helotry is different, because those treasons are not permitted to them. The Alastors cannot stop a mass rising, and what Gellard likely saw was the seed of such a rising being planted right then and there. For someone like him — for anyone who thoroughly profits off the Thaumatarchy, really — that’s a nightmare.
And also, there’s another simple reason: helots were supposed to be outside in the agora, where Carles would perform later, not inside the wine room among the ‘people’. To think that there was a helot among them, that would shock Gellard far more than an aristo being there. After all, there had been plenty of aristocrats there in the days before.
So at the end of the day, it’s the simplest answer: helots and aristos are treated differently, and that changes how their lives play out. The Carles prologue highlights that difference, and creates a gameplay effect to distinguish the two paths.
The wording here does point to a larger logistical Theurge Question, if one intends to neither kill them nor let them become part of a new order. Because at the end of the day, so long as they live, they will have their own blood. And if they have nothing left to lose, well — an untrained fledgling mage with only a year’s experience can bring down the side of a mountain at the cost of their own life. What might the most powerful of Theurges accomplish? What chains could hold them?
A lot of the methods we’ve seen to incapacitate mages are temporary in nature, intended to create a window of opportunity to either kill them or escape. And some of those methods are literally torture. But suffice to say, I suspect in all cases dealing with these aftershocks of Thaumatarchic rule will be easier said than done.
So those last words come from arguably the most mechanically suboptimal victory against Hector as a mage (but easily one of the most satisfying narratively), where you use magic to unseat the veneurs, and likely use aetherial blood to stay conscious as you fend off their charge. Which is to say, you hurl a pine tree at them, impaling Ganelon.
Furthermore, to get these specific last words, when approaching him, you need to select “Aye, Tarakatou. It’s me.” with (2 INT, 1 COM) specifically.
If Kal leads the mule train, their leadership will kill Ganelon, and the (2 INT) MC can mourn him then. It’s a similar scene, but actually speaking to Ganelon reveals the depth of his hatred for us. Still, the conversation with Kal afterwards is amazing, especially with all they’ve been through.
Pressing your fingers against your skull, you try to blink away the stinging blur...
The world feels empty but for the smoke in your nostrils, senseless chatter against your ears. You stride off up the slope, but ${kalt} follows you, rubbing dust along ${zhis} arms to remove the blood. It’s a practiced, almost thoughtless gesture; you recognize it from the Keriatou pigkeepers you grew up with.
“You knew him,” ${zhe} says quietly.
“We knew of them all. Didn’t have much cause to know of this one, though. He was no helot-baiter.” You try not to let your emotion show to ${kalt} of all people.
“He show you some kindness?” $!{zhe} waits for you to respond, then drops ${zhis} voice even lower. “You two were…”
“No!” you snap. For a moment, you find yourself fiercely hating ${zhim}—as much for reducing learned Ganelon to a shrieking, mud-spattered victim as for the killing itself. “Damn it, ${kalt}, let it go.”
After a moment, ${kalt} nods. “I know it’s hard, Captain. Believe me, I know.” $!{zhis} weariness is plainly audible again. “But look at him. Remember that he stood there while that Keriatou nailed Glena to a tree. Maybe helped.”
You round on ${zhim} furiously, struggling to keep your voice below a shout. “${kalt}, will you just…”
“They find it pretty damned easy to harden their hearts to us, Captain,” ${kalt} growls. “They can do it at the drop of a leaf. If we can’t do the same? There’s no hope for us. And no hope for…whatever you imagine this rebellion to be.”
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Interesting thought, since you’d have to compare it to something or someone material/earthly. Kleitos (the Thaumatarch) would probably be the most “god-like” being, and his appearance has even been described as more godly rather than monstrous. He’s even so charismatic people mysteriously drop dead if they dare disobey his witty suggestions!
Maybe not having your extraordinary charisma compared to the Thaumatarch would be for the better for reasons obvious, but since Kenon is technically a philosophy, you’re right that there’s no spiritual figurehead you could use at all, let alone the Angels. Maybe you could try a “your charisma flows into hearts like water, enflames the mind as if fire” sort of thing since elements are the core of the universe, something that Kenon philosophers know is truth?
And, if none of the other options work, there’s always Breden, the most influential creature that ever lived 
Speaking of, the religious aspect of this game has been bothering me since I started playing 3 years ago, for all the right reasons. I have absolutely no idea what the Angels’ motivations or goals are, if they even have any, or if they exist in the first place. Just like real life! One scene in particular that I’d like to point out is when you choose to subtly sabotage a Harrowing, and the helot’s village gets destroyed that night. Most players I assume would blame the Hegemony’s Theurges. If they can control elements, they can control earth and rocks, so surely they can create their own earthquakes too, right?
Well, it’s always worried me that the World Index’s page on Religion says specifically that the Angels’ “reward order, and punish chaos.” What would be more chaotic than the Hegemony’s sacred sacrifice machine breaking down at a crucial moment? Even the MC’s initial revolt can be seen as punished if you try to create too much chaos. What happens if you try to ransack the Rim’s noble houses? You fail, and followers get killed.
I think it was the Angels’ themselves that caused the earthquake to kill all those poor, innocent helots, and that is pretty scary to have the watchers over the universe be on the opposite side.
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