– most rebels in most eras
“Why is it so damn hard to rebuild from all this anarchy?”
– most successful rebels post rebellion
Have patience, Mara. Or don’t, and let the Hegemony tremble at the wrath of ex-Gandhi.
1 Like
It is bugged so no way gained it. I gained five of anarchy out of nowhere in the voting and i voted for sneaky sneky between commoners. Sadly 4 is bugged . Also that is hardly an advantage because zero is totally zero in everything no money no weaponry no anything. And if you want to run and sneak 43 or 50 people it doesn’t matter number anyone could kill you exactly the sme. Because cousin WOULD HAVE ALL HIS MEN WITH NO ANARCHY
Of course for the sort of transformation I envision you need a degree of anarchy, it doesn’t matter if, like in Ataturk’s case you get it from prior conflicts, or if you have to create it yourself, in order to get a root and branch transformation they’ll need to believe that my mc’s plan is the only one with a chance of “saving” them and that would be an impossible sell if they didn’t need to be “saved”.
1 Like
Very few, at this stage. The potential for lowering anarchy really comes when you hold and (to some extent) govern territory, not just influence it. Next game (and even more in G3) you’ll have the chance to set up your informal courts and enforce some sort of law over significant swathes of Shayard (at least).
No, I don’t think so. And sports beyond the ones mentioned are something I’ve not given much thought to yet.
Might be. The Harrowing sabotage adds anarchy, and there might be one or two other non-thief options for anarchy boosts. I’ll peek through later and see.
7 Likes
Could you fix the voting to don’t add anarchy? I don’t know why I have to vote in first place Because no way Evil Gandhi would allow helots to vote.
Nothing in the code adds anarchy for voting. (In fact, the only thing in Ch 4 so far that can add anarchy is your killing Horion and dumping his body in a public place). Try again and see if you get it?
You don’t have to hold a vote, and you don’t have to listen to what anyone else has to say. But if you then insist on choosing a course that turns out to be unpopular with your band, on the life-or-death issue of the band’s strategy in the face of the oncoming attack… only a very blinkered noblewoman would be surprised that the result is varying degrees of paralysis. That won’t necessarily doom you, though; it might just lead to a few more casualties among the helots and yeomen you so despise.
CHA 2 is nice (as nice as you get in Game 1, of course), but it has its limits. It won’t sway everyone all the time.
3 Likes
Not sure I like the idea of “informal courts”, when my mc isn’t around to supervise the process. Law should be formal after all and my mc absolutely doesn’t want those informal courts continuing to apply (their interpretation of) that religious based canon-law.
We’d need at least a declaration of temporary basic-law, comprising the bare-bones fundaments of my mc’s envisioned new, secular, class- and casteless system of laws in that case, but it’ll necessarily be kind of rough and unpolished (and not properly promulgated by the new democratic parliament(s) to boot) and we’ll need to ban religious figures, diakons, ecclesiasts and anybody else formally tied to the Xthonic church from pronouncing secular judgement in the name of the provisional government. Furthermore former nobles need to be disqualified from doing so, at least on the basis of their now abolished titles.
5 Likes
I replayed it again and CONFIRMED zero beforw enter chapter 4 when entering chapter 4 a plus 5 in anarchy.
I didn’t steal no sabotage no raid. I achieve peace with Calea and of course i was friendly with Horion and the priest i didn’t accept his offer but I was friendly and helpful for him qnd let them go with my friendship . So no reason to have +5 in anarchy. Also I DON’T WANT THOSE STUPID HELOTS THAT CAME AT BEGINNING OF 4 . i don’t want 78 soldiers that are difficult to infiltrate and they ar simple slaves no soldiers i ONLY HAVE TEN WEAPONS SO NO USE FOR THEM… I WANT THEM OUT
Hey can i ask how does the weapon system works? An also suzane like do i have to court her longer? Is there any shortcuts?
Ah, I see. At the moment, you’re getting an anarchy boost at the end of Ch 3 (not 4) because you murdered the Aristarch’s cousin.
Not that you actually did, of course… but by letting Horion go to his death, at the moment, you are being unfairly linked to the anarchy that attends “bandits murdering the upper nobility”. Ironically, the only way at the moment to maintain 0 anarchy is (I believe) to kill Horion quickly and quietly or kidnap him secretly.
I’ll have to think about whether that’s an irony I actually want in the game, and whether it would be better to just drop the prospect of 0 anarchy. 0 anarchy is not a very realistic goal for a rebellion, as this example suggests; by definition, you don’t and can’t control the anarchy your actions inspire.
And: “difficult to infiltrate”? They’re helots and yeomen; you’re infiltrating helot camps and yeoman villages. Evil Gandhi didn’t want soldiers, surely?
4 Likes
I think you should leave it in. The stat is obviously a “how the general populace see your band” more than “your actual band”. Anarchy is human nature; it would be silly to think any significant gathering of people for a cause wouldn’t contain it.
4 Likes
Yeah, it is easy said that when your survival doesn’t depend of a numerical bonus. My character rebellion depends of the zero anarchy bonus. Also @Havenstone So if I am really peaceful you don’t give me the peaceful ONLY BONUS however, from a role-playing perspective I can’t kill Horion because that’s a thing Evil Gandhi would never do. Great! So it doesn’t matter my anarchy because the game mechanical is made to ensure I CAN’T HAVE MY WELL EARNED BONUS… SOME PEOPLE ARE ABOUT TO BE POISONED.
Edit Yes I don’t want that extra dead weight Because game say I only call sneak like 30 people so I HAVE TO REMAIN IN THE FOREST I DON’T WANT REMAINING 
i surrender there is no way I can win. Your game mechanisms are made to make me lose. This is the end of Evil Gandhi
Thanks for this update; juggling the numbers is now a fun challenge, and not overwhelming.
For playtesting, here’s a relatively optimized playthrough of my very devout, compassionate, and charismatic MC:
You’re an aristo who chose to steal from anyone.
Your morale is 529.
Your notoriety is 173.
Your anarchy is 20.
You have 476 followers, 7625 drachems, and 114 arms.
Your credibility with aristos is 208, helots 220, merchants 260, priests 175, and yeomen 260.
Your followers’ leadership is: Breden 15, Zvad 5, Elery 8, Radmar 7
I wanted to get Suzane and Diakon Edwer, so I started by stealing mules from merchants and raiding the Owlscap before rebuilding my relationship with the merchants by stopping the raids when Alaine asked and by smuggling. I stole mules from the alastors, but not from the priests (so that I could get Edwer). My MC participated in almost all the main story raids (temple, tax collector, de Merre estate, and alastor garrison), but minimized anarchy by consistently choosing merciful options. Aside from that, Breden and I (and sometimes Radmar) begged, hunted, and recruited. During week 3 (since I don’t get any loot during week 2) I led a raid on the tithe barns, and asked the Ecclesiast for leave to take the grain. A very devout MC starts with 210 cred_p, loses 5 from the tithe raid (when asking permission), and loses 30 from the temple raid (while meeting Suzane and becoming Lie-Breaker), thus barely staying above the threshold for recruiting Diakon Edwer.
Having enough mules to avoid the Theurge attack is a challenge, especially if they attack before the tax raid. That’s why I raid the Owlscap with Elery the first week (while cheering her up, since Zvad is my deputy), and have her start raiding repeatedly (with about 8 mules) the second week. After week 5 Alaine asks us to stop, so there are many mules available for the sick by the time the Theurges attack.
I noticed a couple of minor bugs:
*elseif (needfoodlt+100) <= foodstorelt
With hunger less acute than it was at the outset of
*label fostwint
*set fundrkids 0
winter, your outlaws look
*if cha > 0
dubious; but you persuade enough of them to be able to identify ${fundrkids} children for fosterage.
They always agree to let 0 kids be fostered, since fundrkids was just set to 0.
*if (cred_h <= 100) or (cred_h <= 100)
Unfortunately, the hostile
Should be cred_y
Also,
I don’t know if you’re working on chapter 4 before revising chapter 3, but I’d love it if you added this.
@poison_mara
The game never lets you send all your people into the helot camps in chapter 4, likely in part for the sake of narrative simplicity. I also chose that option, and with a good relationship with helots I was able to get roughly 400 into their camps.
6 Likes
For someone who hasn’t played to the end of the game, you’re awfully confident in what your survival will or won’t depend on.
What I’m saying above is I think I’ll scrap the 0 anarchy bonus. It doesn’t make sense when the route to 0 anarchy is so counter-intuitive; there’s no reason to incentivize bad role-playing. Low anarchy, rather than zero anarchy, is what a peaceable character should be aiming for.
The bonuses for Evil Gandhi (and other characters who make similar choices) include the blademaster de Firiac and spears that can cut through stone. I think you’re going to be OK.
4 Likes
But I ONLY HAVE 78 men… why in hell I can sneak all. I have no weapons no money and no weapons except that useless Lacoste ones I CAN’T use because my men are no training to use them. So I’m forced to stay a fight against FULL FORCE PLUS HECTOR ENTIRE FAMILY with ten weapons and 30 men YAY SURE I CAN WIN WITHOUT MILITARY TACTICIAN…
So it’s impossible I can’t figure how fight against the Game mechanisms that are tailored specifically for anarchy armies. Is impossible so I have to do exactly as the rest of testers and do the big bulky anarchy army it is the only way coded to win.
Edit i am thinking about A Cid
I’m sure me and Mara are on the same team here. I feel like I’ve begun to emphasise with Mara’s playthrough to such a degree that I’m seriously experiencing a hallucination of alternate reality, or mind blending, or something. Might just be my horrible cocktail of mental disorders, but reading this I really got the feeling like I’ve experienced an out-of-body traumatic experience alongside Mara, in person.
Like the Berenstain/Berenstein conspiracy. I’ve already travelled with Mara. I’ve been there.
Somewhere, in an AU of Haven’s canon XOR world, somewhere, there is paradoxical universe bleeding where the MC, in their travels to free people, comes across a similar rebellion led by sly Mara and their absolutely unbearable military tactician Tea.
1 Like
Well, you play the Cid if you’re tired of Evil Gandhi. But I think you’re wrong about the game mechanisms, and that you should wait until you actually see the ending before going off in a huff. 
Sadly Evil Mara has dead forever because there is no credible way she survived against a full force within tactics training men in the lacoste weapons and there are 30 the rest are sneaking in helot camps. So I think a Nacionalist Lacoste Cid could do as a more suitable rol. Not my favorite role but Suitable
A rebellion against an evil Hegemony will almost certainly involve powerful armies trying to destroy it. I’m not sure what the in-universe explanation is for not having a small group of rebels all disappear into helot camps, but @Havenstone has said that actually fighting the enemy is an overachiever option for combat specialists. The fact that they come after you in the forest doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll catch you. (Although presumably there will be some kind of encounter…)
@Havenstone has a fixed ending for this story, which if I remember correctly involves the MC on the run near the wards, and that simplifies storytelling heading into the next game. Fighting their army at this point is definitely not necessary for victory.
Havie lol. YOU obliged me to STAY IN A FOREST WITH 30 MEN AGAINST A THEURGE AN NOBLE FULL FORCE… WITHIN WEAPONS… HOW IN HELL I CAN WIN!!! I SHOUTING THEM UNTIL THEIR SURRENDER??? 
I even hide the Lacoste weapons so no lacoste weapons . You really think 30 helots with a no military leader could win? REALLY!!!
1 Like