Choice of Rebels Part 1 WIP thread

Omg! I thought this was dead! I’m so happy now! This is the best writing I’ve seen on COG and better than many published novels I’ve read.

:slight_smile: Thanks, mwaki! Working hard on the revamp of Ch 2 right now.

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True, although @Havenstone is in fact a published author too, and apparently one heck of a DM, back in the day (wish I could have been there).

Going to take a bit of a break from the forum while I push to get things finished – will be back to post updates, but otherwise won’t be checking for a while. Will answer questions etc when I get back!

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I was admittedly picturing most people within the Hegemony as white. I think that the Karagonds have been described at some point or another as having olive-skinned, which I didn’t pay much attention to because I tend to equate them with their Mediterranean counterparts. It’s also the case that the Shayard and so on lie significantly to the south, so it would make sense that they would be darker even if I hadn’t pictured it that way.

I actually just looked at the map again, I have to say I care less for it than the last one. Based on my vague recollection it seems that Shayard lies less southwardly than before, but… I would still in my head kind of equate that change in latitude with a North African sort of skin? Not quite brown unless the person in question is very strongly tanned, but probably enough that the person wouldn’t be considered white by a lot of people in the US regardless of the census’ definition of Caucasian. That’s just my vision of it, though. It could just as well be that the skin color of the Karagonds is to Shayardenes as that of the Bedouins is to the folks in the Sub-Saharan regions or whatever else people have in mind.

It’s not a big deal to me, but if you are going to ever be explicit about it then I it’s best to mention it early. My gut reaction was to feel slightly annoyed at this just because I’ve been picturing the character a certain way and now it’s clear that that doesn’t make sense even though it’s something I really ought to have determined before, so now I need to come up with something else. If you’re just upfront about it then there’s not so great a possibility of constructing and investing in an impossible image of the character that’s only going to be broken down in some way in the future.

No problem Haven, don’t forget about us My friend. And cheers! Evil Gandhi needs all the help she could get.

I always imagines Spartans and their helots for some reason or boyars and serfs.

I gave it another play through and it certainly seems to be coming along. It seems to have a bit of an eccentric Greek Robin Hood vibe to it. But I quite like it.

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I concur. I shall anxiously await the update/release!! :smile: Good luck!

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@Havenstone

I know you are checked out for a bit working on XoR, but I had a question about the alastors. Seems like virtually ever apperatus of Hegemonic power is centrally funded and administered to include low level law enforcement. As far as I know there really isn’t any IRL precedent for a country as big as the Hegemony to have all law enforcement managed nationally. Are the alastors strictly assigned and commanded within a Conte or are they moved about the entire Hegemony? How does the Hegemony manage either? Could go towards explaining why they are so corrupt since they aren’t answerable to any local notables and the central control practically ensures they are undersupplied, paid, and supervised at the edge of the empire. Might be one of the first things reformed by a new government, to devolve police power locally.

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Good question. Will answer when I’m properly communicado again. :smiley:

(But in honor of the good question, I’ll spend the evening writing the bit where you haggle with Alaine over protection money paid by caravans crossing the Owlscap. It’s working out well with my rewrite of Ch 2)

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They could be the political police, kind of like the SS were in germany and just over time local police, or constables in this case, just became irrelevant?

Political police normally are from the populations most loyal to the government and are throughly vetted for loyalty. They might be brutal and inhuman, but rarely corrupt in a way that is detrimental to central authority. The alastors don’t seem to meet that criteria. Not saying you are incorrect, it just doesn’t seem like the logical conclusion. To me they seem more like religious police, and since the Hegemony keeps a somewhat tight rein on religion…

Still their seemingly centralized control for minor law enforcement duties should create lots of problems in practice. Even if they are managed at the Conte level it would be like State Highway Patrol serving as your town sheriff or municipal police. Oh, and the Contes are as large as Brazil…

The Hegemony is a theocracy. Religious police are political police, since dissent is literally equated with heresy.

Also, I can speak from experience that, in Alaska (which may not be Brazil but it’s a pretty wide area), all but two cities have their policing handled by State Troopers. Meanwhile, in Canada, except in two provinces, the police are a federal gendarmerie that you may have heard of (they wear red jackets). And the Alastors’ policing duties are much less broad than modern police - they’re order-maintenance thugs who mostly exist to intimidate the population and occasionally break a few heads. (The Kryptasts being the secret police.)

So it wouldn’t be too hard to run most policing through Hegemony institutions. Noble family guards keep the peace on the estates proper, but Alastors are around everywhere.

To your first point, you have a point, but I still see there being a difference. Sure the justification of religious heresy can also extend to purely political enemies, but I feel like the alastors are more than (or less than depending on your PoV) religious police. They may be heavy handed and corrupt, but they are still enforcing laws that have little to do with religion like singing non-approved nationalistic songs or guarding tax convoys.

To your second point I think you are mistaken. A cursory glace at Wikipedia provides a detailed list of non-federal law enforcement agencies for both Alaska and Canada.


The police force, in CoR, is more like the current Russian “Praetorian Guard” Putin has assembled. It is a force that is equipped to deal with local riot situations but it is also able to handle itself as a light infantry force and able to handle rebellion in provincial areas.

Right now, we are pushing the local force to the point where the “National Guard” to use the American federal system is being considered.

Like how I mix-and-match two of our real life units that don’t normally go together?

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“Because Alaska has no counties, therefore no county police or sheriffs,
in its constitution, the troopers also handle civil papers and mental
health custody orders and serve as police throughout mostly all of rural
Alaska. Alaska does have boroughs, which have some similarities but with lesser powers of lower-48 U.S. counties, but only the North Slope Borough police truly functions similarly to a lower-48 county police agency and thus relieves AST of a need to be the primary police agency in this particular region.”

“The two most populous provinces, Ontario and Quebec, maintain provincial forces: the Ontario Provincial Police and Sûreté du Québec.
The other eight provinces contract policing responsibilities to the
RCMP. The RCMP provides front-line policing in those provinces under the
direction of the provincial governments. When Newfoundland joined the confederation in 1949, the RCMP entered the province and absorbed the then Newfoundland Ranger Force, which patrolled most of Newfoundland’s rural areas. The Royal Newfoundland Constabulary patrols urban areas of the province. In the territories, the RCMP is the sole territorial police force.
Many municipalities throughout Canada contract to the RCMP. Thus, the
RCMP polices at the federal, provincial, and municipal level. It is the
only police force of any sort in several areas of Canada.”

So your cursory glance is mistaken, for Canada in particular.

And you were the one who said that they were religious police (rather than political police) before I did. My point was that there really isn’t a difference; they answer to a religious hierarchy and deal with religious and political crimes, as well as basic order maintenance and population terrorization. (Both nationalistic songs and tax convoys are “political.”)

Bottom line, of course, Alastors are there to enforce the laws and interests of the Thaumatarchy. Noble house guards are for the protection of the nobility and their interests (grain barns and controlling an estate’s helots).

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Right so the places with the most people, in two polities that are notable for being thinly populated, need or want to rely on local police services. Seems to reinforce my point.

“More like religious police” vice simply being religious police. My point is their law enforce the powers and responsibilities are broad.

Not really. “Centralized control for minor law enforcement duties” aptly describes how the Mounties operate in most of Canada, and they do just fine. The more populous provinces have independent local police units because they have a need for more manpower and can afford to run their own police more suited to their specific provincial needs. (Also, Quebec would insist on their own police anyway, because Quebec.)

Anyway, the analogies are imperfect largely because, again, “law enforcement” isn’t the Alastors’ primary objective so much as “order maintenance.” The Alastors are there for when the Hegemony apparatus in a local area needs muscle for something, and they’re there to look imposing, scare the helots and generally make people’s life miserable. (Raping and murdering the occasional helot doesn’t threaten the Hegemony - remember that the Hegemony likes revolts.) Stuff like helot-on-helot murder doesn’t concern them.

It should concern them because when a helot murders another helot it robs their blood and the blood of their future children from the Harrower, it reduces the labor force in an incontrolled manner, and it creates the feeling of insecurity and disorder.

They like revolts but I think they like revolts that they instigate and tenuously control (like ours through Brenden).

Another important factor about the success of federal police acting with municipal powers in Canada is that those municipalities voted for them to be there.