All this Prodigal love


#41

@Helaran The Joker vs Batman comparison just doesn’t hold up. Batman and The Joke are usually on roughly equal footing in terms of intelligence, Batman usually has a bit of an advantage though with combat power and intelligence. Joker on the other hand achieves stuff by being crazy and unpredictable. They also carefully keep his past shrouded in mystery so his motivations are never fully clear.

Prodigal is able to manipulate pretty much everything in the MC’s life as they constantly run around waving the idiot stick in their hands. It has nothing to do with her being intelligent or not. She’s delusional, narcissistic, and clearly has a very poor grasp of reality, yet is somehow able to not have that affect her plan at all, and it’s even possible for you to spend a good deal of time around her in disguise where she ends up being the best actress ever and never once letting out a hint of the obvious severe psychosis she suffers from in the last scene. Also, her background and motivations are extremely cliche’d and stupid.


#42

I have to say the revelation of Prodigal’ psychotic romantic obsession with you really makes me scratch my head about any playthrough where your sidekick is Sparrow asnd you save Sonja. Prodigal was Sparrow and yet somehow manage to not even drop a hint despite being obsessed and in love with you.


#43

@Helaran Yeah, that makes sense. I guess it comes down to the events, in this case.

@Neshomancer I never had the feeling that Prodigal loved the MC before actually starting anything at HeroFall. Obsession, sure, but never thought about love. On the other hand, I did have the feeling that Sparrow thought something about the MC which she didn’t reveal.

Did a lot of people had the impression that Prodigal liked the MC even when they were rivals?


#44

Shoelip -> Waving the idiot stick in their hands? I don’t really understand what do you mean by that. And I don’t think the Joker would be able to make plans if he was only unpredictable. A plan is everything but something that you can pull of without preparation or a planning.

But if you need another reference, the Batman Universe has plenty (after all, nearly all the villains are crazy), you can take The Riddler. He’s also delusional, narcissistic and he has clearly a poor grasp on reality. Despite that, he’s able to prepare the most intricate traps while remaining subtle, perhaps even more than Prodigal.

As for her background and motivations, I think it would have been extremely cliché and stupid if she was a villain without them. You know, the sort of villain who is villain because she’s a villain, that’s all folks, punch her and save the day without a second though.

After that, you can like or dislike them but don’t say it’s cliché if it’s only based on your feelings about the character. If you want to ask about originality, as Christopher Vogler say it so in The Writer’s Journey (approximatively from memory): “All the stories have already been written, it’s how you tell them that make a difference.” Basically, yes, you can find similarities and equivalences of Prodigal in others universes but the same thing can be said for every character or plot you can read.

If you are already jaded and embittered when you read a story, I can only say that it’s truly a shame.

Neshomancer -> I didn’t choose Sparrow but as I said, it’s just one hypothesis for one of the possible reasons (there’s bound to be many reasons) as to why there’s so much fans around Prodigal. The first reading is pretty clear about her motives and madness. After that, some can interpret that there’s more in her obsession for the MC.

I never say it was the same feeling for every player.


#45

GoldenXan -> My [[personal impression]] on the subject is that even Prodigal didn’t know herself that her obsession goes beyond her own motives for celebrity before HeroFall. It isn’t easy to know when you are in love and when you aren’t. In the case of Prodigal, it must be the most difficult thing to sort out (even if she’s perhaps the most open character about her feelings once she knows what kind of feelings she have).

It’s [[my own interpretation]] though but I think that her need for identification, her loneliness paired with the lack of strong motives (she only chooses you to give a meaning in her life, to be the living symbol of the archenemies of her mother) could have been the reason why her obsession isn’t only a hate obsession. Envy, jealousy here seems to be the more accurate thing. After all, she blames you for having such a sheltered life with your friends and relatives.

I don’t think she could have remain indifferent to the MC, especially since she didn’t want to have a life of her own and especially since… Well, she knows the MC in every domain (I don’t need to draw you this, reassure me xD).


#46

@Helaran That’s quite alright, I got your message. :stuck_out_tongue:

Envy and jealousy does seem more appropriate. But whether or not that turns somehow into love, I think, depends on the player’s reactions, solely.

Hell, I wanted to strangle her with both hands whenever she called me chicken… I don’t understand her obsession with this word, but I passed to trust and like her in the end. And again, that’s only because of my reaction, because I know that if you ‘mistreat’ her, she won’t be trustworthy, or a true ally, or whatever else close that.

By the way, does anyone knows why she like chickens so much?


#47

@GoldenXan Well there is that flashback scene when you’re in Prodigal’s mind. When you find yourself gripping something and choose yourself, you find Prodigal admirig a hologram of you and well Ill just pull the sequence from in game:

You find yourself staring face-to-face with a life size holo-projection of yourself. Beside it, a teenage Prodigal sits studying the image.

“Someday, you’ll know how meant to be, how connected, how intertwined we are,” Prodigal sighs. “And you’ll pay for what I’ve lost with all you’ve gained.”

You feel a profound sense of longing, staring at yourself. One you’re pretty sure doesn’t actually belong to you….

Now looking at this for context clues, it has to be before the Hero Project because she wasn’t out to take you down then. By that point she’d figured out Miss Artillery was alive, at at least so far as I can tell as she was monitoring the conspiracy and tried to warn you. So the absolute earliest this memory could take place is before the Death Wave.

However, unless I’m totally off base here, it quite possibly takes place even earlier than that. The gap between the first and second games is seven months. With the gap between the Hero Project finale and Herofall, at best these three games’ events take lace over the span of a year. Now in this memory Prodigal is referred to as “teenage”, implying that she’s not a teenager in the present, otherwise this would not be notable. Again these games takes place over a year, likely less given the possible ending in Herofall where you are still the reigning Hero of Tomorrow, an award that is given out annually.

Now the important part is that sense of longing. Longing isn’t about vengence, in fact its quite the opposite. It’s desire by definition. Not to mention she sighs, a clearly romantic action.

So all in all this memory has to take place before the first game. Now before playing Herofall the thought that Prodigal was in love with the MC never crossed my mind, but Herofall retconned this into her character, and as such it colors those interactions with her, both as Prodigal and Sparrow looking back. Does that make sense?


#48

@Neshomancer It does makes sense, but I think that her reference about being intertwined was more due to the relationship of our fathers than she liking us.

That she was obsessed with us, one way or another, there is no question, but she says multiple times that she hates us. It is entirely possible for a love-hate relationship to exist I think, but I don’t think it turns out that way if we don’t act towards it. So much so that she might never refer to you as a love interest if you don’t show that first in some way.

And all these travels in her mind did help people to feel like they understand her, which is certainly one reason for all the love for the character. It surely made me more connected to her.

There is still one thing though… When you romance her, there is a moment she says “Chickens united at last…”, which might suggest that she was looking forward to it, but could be something that only developed in her mind once you started suggesting it. It is possible that she was hoping for it as well, though. I don’t think we can know for sure.


#49

@Goldenxan Oh, you’re certainly not wrong. Honestly the evidence could be interpreted either way. With how utterly batshit Prodigal was how could we tell either way? hell I doubt even she nnew either way.


#50

GoldenXan -> I agree with you when you say it’s based on the MC reactions to her. If you are agressive with her, it’s logical to think that she will be agressive too.

Nonetheless, I confess I had a hard time to see it as credible when I had to make my MC say “We are meant to be together” so suddenly. After all, I made her cautious around Prodigal, she didn’t forget her crimes even if she’s willing to give her a second chance.


#51

@Helaran to be fair if you act hostile to any of he romantic interests and they’ll be hostile back. As for the credibility of the Prodigal romance, the MC jut seems rater loose; they get a boy/girlfriend and they are rather eager to jump into bed with them. So I’m not so sure its out of character.


#52

The whole romance with Prodigal escalated a rather tad quickly, it was one of the things I voiced during the beta.

The whole phrase “We are meant to be together” feels off place since, before this statement, there wasn’t much that hinted at the two being together at all that happened outside of the MC’s mind. Besides, the moment you choose to think this way is as a thought, and then we use the very same words when telling it to Jenny, or at least it was so during the beta–I haven’t tried in the release version yet, I’m waiting for an update to add alternate endings, as Zach seems to be suggesting to do.

Regardless, a lot of people voiced their opinion that they wanted a way to be with Prodigal even while the game was being written, so it’s nice for it to be there, but it did seem a bit rushed. With Black Magic in the first game, there were multiple events where you could ‘evaluate’ her (and yours, too) feelings and wet your toe before deciding to give in to her paramour. It wasn’t so with Prodigal.

For this reason, and just the general idea of starting a romance, I think there should be multiple times to change your mind whether or not to like someone or to romance them. The first playthrough I made I managed to, somehow, miss the romance with Prodigal because of this, even though I was aiming at it. So it seems, you don’t get to “be in love with her” if you really don’t try, in such a way that you must really mean it, and in this case, the romance–rushed or not–falls in place.

All in all, the Heroes Rise series isn’t particularly known for allowing you to change your mind as the events happens, as the game rewards you for sticking within a role. That fits in with the romance scenes.


#53

@GoldenXan -> You voiced exactly what I thought :o

As for me, I don’t really mind if I don’t have the choice to change my mind but, at least, I would like to read a well-written romance with enough downtimes and challenges to be able to be moved, to be sad and to smile like a fool in front of my screen : p

Of course, romance isn’t the most important part in a story (fortunately) but it’s still an important part in a character development.


#54

That’s what I’ve been saying!!! XD and what i thought i could do too, right there at the end HELLO the Pres’ got the gun, take it, change the setting, and heal her you fool!


#55

At the end of the third book you get a REALLY REALLY detailed explanation for everything…


#56

What, it’s been added or that’s something you want?


#57

That’s a great question OP! I don’t actually really get it either…I would’ve been civil to Prodigal, but she’s psycho. Murdered a bunch of people. It ain’t never gonna work between us, even if I was a guy. I mean Black Magic kind of is psycho, too…a little bit, at times in Herofall. I like how flawed he was, it’s just that Prodigal is a bit too much off the deep end.

In regards to romance in general, I was a little sad that there wasn’t much character development for Black Magic, Lucky, and Jury. I expected more of an explanation for Black Magic’s actions in Hero Project, or at least to have him/her address it themselves. And some more backstory on MC and Lucky, or more interaction time with them. Am I the only one who thinks it’s weird that Black Magic and Lucky didn’t have an epic showdown? I kept on thinking the entire time that something real bad was going to happen between them (love triangle jealousy rage), but their scuffle was extremely short and abrupt. I also feel like Jury got shafted with his romance option…a little more dialogue addressing the bizarre 180 degree turn of emotions would’ve been more reasonable, I think. SORRY I DIDN’T MEAN FOR THIS TO TURN INTO ME COMPLAINING I still loved the story so much, and I’m extremely happy about it!


#58

Honestly I don’t completely understand why I like Prodigal either. She’s clearly delusional and yet I couldn’t help but choke up at her death (I romanced her out of curiosity) Maybe its because I’m a sucker for a hero/villain relationship where the two are reflections of eachother. Maybe its because I’m a softy for crazy bad guys that have a moment of redemption. Either way I found myself wanting to save Prodigal, despite all the things she did.


#59

Man I wish that this would happen in the sequel like there’s a new hero you befriend(since you are a new protagonist) and as you keep playing she decides to meet your previous character the new super bad ass of the super hero world.
It would be like:
Grace- Hi Necrotic Rose I’m Grace
NR-Who the slugger are you and what are you doing in my office?
Grace-Aw don’t be like that…Chicken. She puts on her mask and He Immediately recognizes her

Cause the two things I disliked was that I never knew her name… Prodigal has got to be an alias. Sorry I’m rambling but I also wanted to ask that her name was never revealed right?


#60

Prodigal’s story has been told. I’d hate to see her show up in any sort of important manner in the sequel games. She had a proper story arc.

As for her name, I’ll quote from the game: “Prodigal was born inside one of Miss Artillery’s secret bunkers and was kept there for over a decade, not allowed to leave. As a result, there’s no way to know what Prodigal’s real name is, or if she was ever even given one.”