Never said to have Jillian to fuck the guy to have him on our side, lol, where are you reading this? Convince/ Manipulate is a very different word to selling Jillian as a prostitute,
don’t put words in my mouth, It’s a Mutual benefit ffs, Jillian learns to use her gun more efficiently and even learns how to be a spotter and in turn Jude will have someone to talk to and maybe make him avoid killing himself that’s it.
I asked you what would be her reason to live after witnessing the murder of her husband & children. Not wanting to live in a world where the undead are eating the living and the only family you have left were just killed wouldn’t make her weak. Given the brutality that’s portrayed in a apocalypse, it seems like a completely normal response in my opinion.
Yes, the Silverthornes have no use for a family with kids, they view children as dead weight(even though it would have been more beneficial for them to keep them alive and train them to be deadly child soldiers not to mention, there would be no next generation if they don’t have kids eventually ). But that’s how they’ve decided to deal with children, so it makes the most sense that they would just kill them and take their supplies. Not a pleasant fate for them but it’s the apocalypse a happy ending isn’t something you often get nor is it a guarantee that you’ll get it.
Personally I don’t share your feelings about Jude at all, I gave him the opportunity to handle this peacefully he was quite unreasonable and demanding of more supplies to trade so I killed him. I was going to kill him anyways because he shot at us and I really don’t feel like giving second chances to people who try to blow my head off, let alone a crazy person.
Despite the fact I think he’s unstable and consider leaving him alive possibly problematic, I actually like Jude the way he is. His personality is unique and he represents a different a view/mindset on the world one of which we haven’t seen from previous survivors we’ve met and I feel like making him a possible recruit and becoming another member of the MC’s marry band of misfits will take his unique viewpoint/personality on the world away from him just to simply make him more MC friendly/obedient.
Yeah, I understand your point, let’s just say I’m still optimistic on my views right now. Good speaking with you.
You are making a girl from your group Get disguised as another person to lure a mad man that had killed several people and could have killed yourself, and let him with him. With no guarantee that he won’t rape her torture her and shoot her directly.
It is like let a teen in hands of Hannibal Lecter dressed as lamb.
Mad man is different from unstable, he won’t go so far as to negotiate terms with my group if he’s succumbed to madness. Proof are that he is not mad is that; He can still be spoken to with words, if you or even Jillian talk to him through the Intercom in the shop, he’s willing to talk, which indicates that he still has reason. Also, if you ask about if he knows that he’s shooting at kids, he’ll first tell you if that even matters BUT retracts his statement that he shouldn’t be doing that, which indicates that he has still his humanity in there. More proof is that if you yell at the roof to negotiate terms he’d willingly tell you the code for the door, even waiting for you upstairs. If he really is a mad man he wouldn’t tell you the names of his family, his CO, and even his name if your MC decides to kill him, he wouldn’t use guilt to make you think about him. Heck, he even kills himself if you throw an explosive on top of the roof.
The guy is just scared, depressed and suicidal. He needs someone to talk to and in this setting we can’t find an actual shrink to get him out of it, maybe Jaime could do something, what we could give him the most at this moment is a stick to walk on through. Well, I’ve explained this on my other replies. Jillian is clearly an adult, not a teen, she fights with her words more efficiently than with a gun, and she has lots of practice conning people when she was with Lyle, heck, even leave Jaime as a bodyguard if you’re still worried. A few days or even tomorrow come, Jude we’ll be joining us.
Did you, like… y’know, consider that Jillian might not be willing to do it? Not everyone wants to get left on a store’s rooftop with a stranger for days, even less if they are armed. Just sayin’.
As insensitive as this is going to sound…I don’t care.
He shot at me.
He gravely injured a member of my group.
He was an obstacle between me and a great deal of supplies.
Now, I don’t consider my character to be a cruel man. Quite the opposite-he saved and took in a decent amount of the survivors in the group (Dante, Lopez, Jillian, Driver and Gina to name a few), was courteous and polite to the people he came by, helped Fred with his home, dealt with Layla for Finn, gave the River Dogs free food and so on. He seems like a cold, pragmatic man on the outside but deep down he’s a teddy bear with a heart of gold.
However, he threatened the life of both I and another survivor. Even worse, he did it with actual bullets that left wounds instead of words. In that case, all reason to be polite and give him the benefit of the doubt are thrown out the window. I don’t care if he’s scared, paranoid, depressed, whatever. At that point, he’s just a threat and obstacle that, given the chance, I will put down.
It’s nice to be nice, but in a setting like the apocalypse, you need a limit for it.
Yeah, but high Persuasion/Leadership might say otherwise
That’s fair, but my Military Commander MC would think an additional fighter wouldn’t hurt, in my save, people get shot at but was never hit, we need to examine the bodies first then command everyone to take cover. And my Homemaker/Uncle/Singer would like to annoy the hell out of that guy by singing Hey Jude by the Beatles. XD
In the case in bringing Edgar to the question, let’s bring Rosie too. Both of these people are manipulated by Dillan to do things and I still let them live, they are both obstacles to my very close friend Jaime and we weren’t sure at first if they would act normally if we take them in and honestly, I killed them both in my first saves but I let them live on the latest ones. I just want to do the same with Jude to manipulate him in lack of a better term to do good.
And to be fair with Jude, in his perspective, we’re the ones robbing him, he got there first with his friend, they tried being nice to people first and he only changed when Carrie got shot in the face. A trade sounds fair, only problem with that is he asks for a lot.
Aside from Keith, Makarovs and Dalton’s group, I think I’ll test the waters first before I became executioner. But that’s my thing
Someone can still be a mad-man and be fully aware of the people they’ve lost, just because he remembers the people he lost in the apocalypse doesn’t mean he’s a sane individual. There are plenty of insane/psychopathic characters in post-apocalyptic fiction who remember who they’ve lost, in fact those losses are often contributing factors into their descent into evil or madness. Also guilt can be a weapon to manipulate people into lowering their guard it doesn’t always have to be used because they genuinely want you to know their story.
If you haven’t done enough to ensure the safety of the people you’re supposed to be leading/safeguarding , and they feel like you haven’t thought this plan through or come up with a back-up. It doesn’t really matter if you’re super persuasive, people are going to notice that you’re plan is half-assed and are a lot less likely to obey you because you’ve done nothing to assure them it will actual work out the way you think it will and they won’t be harmed. But even if you have a solid plan, something can go wrong but it’s still your job as leader to try and minimize the risk of you’re people getting killed.
Putting all your eggs in one basket and building a plan based off how you think a person will react with no factual evidence that they will react that way doesn’t seem like a solid plan. If you were the one putting you’re neck on the line, I’d be fine with it but you’re not. You’re asking Jillian to put herself in danger over what is basically a hunch you have on Jude. Also having one person act as Jillian’s bodyguard wouldn’t make her safe, Jude could easily put a bullet in them or kill them when they sleep and still have his way with Jillian if he wanted to.
That maybe his perspective but that doesn’t mean he’s in the right. Jude did nothing to mark his territory, which would inform survivors who aren’t yet outright hostile and just frightened people, not to go there because they’d be killed on sight. It would be different if he had marked, his territory and we knowingly went in there to rob him. But no he didn’t he started slaughtering people simply because he didn’t care that they didn’t no he claimed, the area. So him not marking his area and people wandering is 100% his fault, and him being possibly killed is simply a consequence of his madness.
Well, more evidence would point out that he’s not. Edgar and Rosie are mad, compared to Jude to be fair, I still think Jude is not. Madness by definition is a state of being severely, mentally ill. Being mad doesn’t make you think logically, it makes you act chaotically, even foolishly.
And speaking of safety, assuming we have everyone that could be saved alive, Didn’t we have 2 psycho’s controlled by Dillan in our group, A “Holy Man” who ties up his friend in his backseat that didn’t tell us about until Kelly popped the trunk open?, A couple on the side of the road that after you’ve mercy killed his partner still runs off and stole from the group? Damn, even a hotheaded bank robber who only listens to his mother.
The problem we’re having in this conversation is we have varying views on how deep Jude is in that insanity scale. Then let’s talk mechanics-wise, Gina who just got his husband killed at that moment can still be convinced to put the gun down and considering her emotional state at that period would be much crazier than what Jude is having at that moment when you are talking to him calmly. 3 Persuasion works at that time and Jillian who’s at 5? That’s cakewalk. Heck, train her 2 times before going there to bump it to 7(can’t remember if you could do it twice on the same person then 6 if we can’t), she could even lead a cult if that ever happens.
And yes, me being left there would be safer even overkill, but I still think Jillian could do it.
And my theory on Harriet, that’s definitely a hunch on my end, I have very little evidence on that. But marking territory? C’mon man, only markings we ever see in the game is the X mark that’s probably done by the Makarovs. Maybe even Joe, if you leave him tied up in the hilltop on display. People scavenging knows the risks in going to places filled with resources they could get shot at, even before talking starts it’s fair game at this point. Also, zombies at the front of the store with bullets in the head is ‘marking’ enough to tell you a shooter is around, people dying to Jude are probably oblivious or even idiotic not to think that. Kent’s group of 5 lost noone and they even have kids. We’re 4 in my group and Parker gets clipped if you are not careful.
You say that but you don’t actually have any evidence to support your argument, You keep saying all of this like this is definitely a thing that will be implemented into the game when we’ve been given no information to corroborate your theory. It’s ok to theorize but, don’t expect your theories on how you’d like something to happen, to be treated as word of god. You set yourself up for disappointment if it doesn’t happen.
Why are you bringing up characters that I never said or considered stable ? Just because we have those characters in our group or can have them doesn’t mean I excuse their behavior. What’s your point in bringing them up ? I don’t even like Church, and can’t stand the fact that he inserted himself into our group and I barely trust Rosie.
Reilly is the only one that I wouldn’t consider unstable because I understand that he’s trying to protect his mom and if the MC doesn’t do the work to earn his trust he’s still going to be a rebellious pain in the ass. Just because we have or potentially can have unstable character’s in the game doesn’t mean we should just add another one into our group. Especially, if they could be a risk to the safety of the group. The only reason Rosie and Driver are even partially trust-worthy is because they have a positive relationship with Jamie and they’ll actually listen to him and the MC, Jude is a loose cannon who only seems to leaves you alone if you give into his excessive demands for more supplies.
How is that enough to tell you that you’re in a shooter’s territory ? The only way you find that out is by putting yourself in the line of fire and investigating the corpses and once you star investigating or find something wrong he starts trying to kill you. That’s not a decent marker that let’s people who don’t have the intention of robbing Jude know that they will be killed if they go near the store.
Also if you haven’t noticed there are corpses everywhere so it’s easy to just gloss over them at this point. That doesn’t mean those people who don’t want to hurt anybody deserve to get shot by some trigger happy psycho simply because they didn’t look at something they see everyday at this point.
That doesn’t matter that you think she could do it. What matter’s is you’re not doing anything to ensure her safety. Even if you think someone can successfully execute a plan you come up with, you should still plan for the possibility that it might not work and come up with at least something to ensure that the people instrumental in this plan come back safely. Otherwise you’re being reckless and inconsiderate of the fact they’re putting themselves in danger for something you want.
All but one of these characters never make an attempt to harm anyone in the group. The one exception is Rosie, who, as far as I can tell, not a lot of people bring along. Jude’s silliness can result in Parker losing a leg if you’re not careful (or just a dick) and the guy was shooting at kids. Not someone I’d want around, personally! He can keep the store for all I care.
I’d like to argue against labelling Driver as a psycho, specifically, but I’d be beating a dead horse 
I love that man.
Unless this was a unique experience in your playthrough, I don’t recall Reilly ever trying to harm someone in the group either and if he did his mom would probably smack him upside the head.
…Mine or @Sky2316’s? He didn’t in any of mine, but he’s the the least “unstable” of those listed and… really shouldn’t be listed at all. He just has a temper.
Your playthrough, sorry I wasn’t clear. Also I agree with you he isn’t unstable or psychotic he’s just a man with a short temper who has a difficult time trusting other people with the livelihood of himself and his mom.
Let’s see, Driver and Rosie both have Jaime as recommendation, plus it’s pretty obvious their complete followers making most of their previous action be influenced by Dillan, Church despite what he did seems to know it’s wrong and come to have partial regret(I mean the “friend” was cheating with Church’s wife, I can give it a pass), I just kill both of the couple(he’s gonna leave/steal regardless), like the other’s said Reilly isn’t insane/mad just tempermental and his mom keeps him in check. The only ones that have endagered any of the others are the first 2 but have calmed down thanks to their friendship with Jaime.
The game itself states that persuasion might fail, regardless of how high it is (vs. that person’s willpower). As you like to mention, Jillian is persuasive enough and has conned so many people that she will be impossible to get around that lunacy.
Also, no offense to Jillian, but she ain’t leader material. She herself admits she doesn’t do well alone and that she needs someone to watch over her, she needs emotional support to keep going forward. In any case, she would be a cult follower.
Oh! People! They haven’t seen me yet, I’ll shoot them, yes. If I kill them, that will teach them. What a good idea I just had.
Or maybe they thought someone with a gun passed by, killed the zombies, took some supplies and went their merry way.
Agreed! While Driver isn’t exactly bloodthirsty, he’s easily manipulable/naive and had Dillan around, who took advantage of him and Rosie and brought out the worsts parts of them.
But I did provide evidence that proves he is still not insane which are canon it’s at the top:
What I said at this quote is what happens when you talk to the guy, if he’s too far from saving he wouldn’t negotiate terms and will kill you straight up when you go at the roof not talk to you like he did. And you also said that
And what you said proves he’s just greedy, not insane.
I was giving examples to support not killing Jude, we did it for the others why not him? What Rosie and Edgar did before is arguably close as to what Jude is doing. Rosie and Edgar did what they did because someone took advantage of their sickness, Jude did what he did since he lost trust in people the moment Carrie died to that hippie.
My argument in the marking is that do you really need to place one? Everything you can see now is fair game, even MC didn’t have the option to place one in his house that says “I will shoot you if you come close” and even if Jude did put one at the store, would people even stop though?
Well what I want is everything to be bloodless but if this is a Kobayashi Maru scenario in convincing him to join the group then there’s nothing I can do about it, I’d kill the guy too If it’s scripted to not being able to recruit him. Only thing that I’m confident in leaving here there is the proof that he’s not a psycho-killer that everyone thinks he is, he’s just a suicidal, scared, depressed individual.
Well I’m sorry for calling Edgar a psycho since he’s much more stable than Rosie I just said that because he was the one manning the .50 cal in the beginning right? not Rosie IIRC? Church’s hidden zombie could have turned a few people or everyone at camp if it somehow managed to escape if Kelly did not notice it. Only way Finn would harm the group is we were there when the collision happened, he would’ve also shot us in the head for panicking. Reilly is just a wildcard imho he could’ve done things if Nora wasn’t there, Not much really on Reilly it’s just if Nora dies in camp(happened on one of my saves) he’d start blaming everyone, the leader mostly and he starts to be different.
If script wouldn’t allow it then I’d kill Jude too, also forgot that she said that, MC will just do it if that’s the case.
But he didn’t shoot you once he knows you’re not a threat when you went to the roof right? If you tried not talking to the guy and do something to attack him while going up he’d kill himself, not fight you to the death.
Parker mentions you could deduce where the bullets came from, from how the bodies are placed and the splatter of the blood.