"Yes I do" RO's everyone hates but you love

General
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Not the person you’re replying to but I’ll try to word my perspective on why people (including myself) might be attracted to “irredeemable” villians. For me at least, part of it is exploring potentially dangerous subjects without any personal risk? If that makes sense. Part of the appeal if choicescript games is that you can play pretend.

Like in the case of Manerkol, in real life, the relationship would probably be considered abusive with a dangerous power imbalance, but as fiction, I find it almost thrilling to be able to be involved with a dangerous, domineering older man. Its sort of a forbidden fantasy. With Manerkol there’s also the aspect of him being incredibly wealthy and powerful but since the PC is a sort of reluctant participant it feeds into the fantasy of being taken care of by someone rich and powerful without being labeled as a gold digger.

With Jun/ko I think its more of the traditional reason people are attracted to bad boys? Like its a different sort of “not dating material” but the fact that they’re vulnerable to only the PC with the player being implied to see sides of them no one else ever will because you’re (even in a messed up way) special to them. While some people dislike how Jun/ko treats the PC at in the beginning of book 4 (I think) to me its not really a deal breaker because I don’t really see it as any more problematic than say, watching a particularly spicy adult film.

In both cases, another part of the thrill is that they’re unequivocally obsessed with the PC. While irl, such a thing would be dangerous, its almost a guilty fantasy enjoy reading fiction where your romantic partner is undeniably yours, in Jun/ko’s case, their obsession blinds them to even considering anyone else, in Manerkol’s they’re literally your soulmate. I guess it lets you fantasize about a world where insecurities don’t exist and you never have to worry about not being enough because you’re made for each other?

EDIT: and if it wasn’t obvious, I’m a huge fan of both Jun/ko and Manerkol lol

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For me, it’s almost entirely based around, exploring the character themselves. SOH four takes a deep dive into the past of the MC and junko, how they grew up, and then it starts to explain what happened in her backstory before meeting MC, and how that changes them. I want that exploration of the characters, psyche, to understand how that dynamic operates, that sort of thing.

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The reason I like SoH 4 despite not romancing Junko and resisting her every step is the character exploration. By the end I really felt I understood her and was sad to see her go despite everything. Same for Sensei that game but that’s obviously not an RO.

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I haven’t played the game, but the Manerkol relationship sounds exactly like what I’m trying to capture (except the protagonists would be closer in age). I completely understand what you mean as far as enjoying the fantasy without wanting to be involved in it in reality. I’ve always thought it unfortunate that many people can’t separate the two and judge others for liking fictional forbidden love, like professor/student, etc. I’ll admit to not liking the “they’re only nice to you” types because I have a low tolerance for rudeness towards others, even if you’re good to me (unfortunate, considering I work in retail), but I would never judge others for it, I just achknowledge it isn’t my cup of tea.

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You explained it so well!

That’s the main thing: it’s a dark fantasy. We don’t want any of this in real life and we are adults who are more than capable of distinguishing between fiction and reality. Honestly, it’s the same thing as wanting to play as a thief or a mercenary. Do you want to steal from others or kill people irl? I think not. So why are romantic dark fantasies so hard to understand? Feels very “this videogame will make you shoot people irl” but with romance.

This! I know many people are of the opinion that MC shouldn’t be the center of the world and that ROs should be independant and have a life that would be perfectly fine without the protagonist but… I don’t share that opinion. I’ll always cherish the most the ROs who have MC as the center of their world. Makes you feel like you want them to be the center of MC’s world as well.

This happened to me with Jun/ko, for example. Knowing MC is the thing that matters the most to the point of obsession makes me want to reciprocate, it makes them a special character, a special RO. You guys know the classic “the hero would choose the greater good to save the world, but the villain would burn the world to save you”. It’s such an intense, twisted, unique connection between that kind of RO and MC that other ROs lack. And it’s so damn fun to read/play too.

It also kinda ties in with the debate about ROs romancing other characters. Obsessive ROs who go to terrible lenghts to have MC don’t have time for that stuff. And the narrative of soulmates, or simply “The One” has always been very enticing for many people.

I’m shutting up after this last point, I promise: danger has a history of being exciting. And sometimes, taming the beast is a power fantasy too. Again; in FICTION. Friendly reminder that you can be fascinated with serial killer documentaries and not start a murder spree on your neighbourhood.

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A (Wayhaven), Sera, and other “cold” ROs that don’t start as enemies or rivals (cold ROs that are enemies/rivals tend to get a pass, I’ve noticed). I’m also a big fan of “twice shy” romances such as Shy!MC/A (and it seems like a lot of other people aren’t).

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“Get a pass” as in you like them, or…?

I’m not judging, I just woke up from a long nap and my brain is still foggy, so I’m not quite comprehending the wording, here.

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I’ve personally just always been a fan of dark fiction, including some truly messed up topics that I think would automatically disqualify a lot of characters from becoming ROs (unfortunately!)

I really adore that obsession element in particular. It can make for some incredibly interesting dynamics in that, no matter how much you fuck up, there will always be someone on your side… Partially because they are also a bit of a fuckup. It can become sort of a “you two against the world” scenario when the MC is allowed to also be morally questionable, which is my favorite flavor of fucked up relationships in fiction! :sweat_smile: Like, c’mon, I wanna be the weird RO sometimes!

Mutual destruction + unquestionable loyalty makes for some fun scenarios in most settings, I’ve found!

I’m on the aromantic spectrum and don’t particularly like to self-insert in interactive fiction, so I think it also comes partially from me never particularly being drawn to standard romantic stuff. I just can’t see the appeal in exploring healthy relationship dynamics when that’s all I ever see in mainstream stuff, anyways. :sweat_smile:

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Throw another vote for Junko. She’s an absolute disaster, and absolutely every other potential ROs have every reason to want her head on a pike, but she’s by far the one with the most interesting dynamic with the Ronin in my opinion.

For an older game - and I have no idea if this RO is hated or not, but it wouldn’t surprise me - there’s JJ from Slammed! . Yet another highly problematic individual that in real life would elicit a huge ‘nope!’ from me. But I’m a sucker for rivalry romances in fiction, and the more extreme it gets, the better. It honestly makes the other two potential final fights in the game like an afterthought - yeah, sure, you can get your chance at fighting the n°1 in the world or put this random asshole in his place, but it’s not nearly as satisfying compared to a confrontation that the game has been building up from the very start, and potentially ending up in them getting together.

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Junko.

That is all. Good day. :heart:

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Leon. I started to romance him couse he was giving me strong Alistair (from DAO) vibe and continue for the sweet SWEET drama. I just can’t help myself

Darcy. Have so much fun with this RO. I have two saves MC1, who literally just “Pal, I don’t give a damn about whole game-of-thrones-shit you are pulling on me, just chill” and MC2, who as much cutthroat as Darcy. It is hilarious how D everytime making pikachu-meme face when MC doing the same backstabery thingies that he does.

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Alison from Dragon Racer. Never understood the animosity for her.

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They “get a pass” because enemies-to-lovers or rivals-to-lovers is a time-honored trope.

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To add my two cents to the “why some people like dark romances” conversation:

I really hate how when you admit to liking dark romances or messed up characters/villainous characters, some people tend to react with “What’s wrong with you?” or “Damn, you must be messed up”.

Because first of all, fuck you. Just because someone likes dark content doesn’t necessarily mean they’re a bad or “messed up” person. Kirlett explained it really well with her comparison to “just because you want to play a murderer in game doesn’t mean you want to murder people in real life”.

Second of all, yeah, I am messed up. So what? Why is that something to be ashamed of?
Life and people have fucked me over and mistreated me repeatedly while growing up - and I still fall into the “privileged” category of people, despite all of that - and all of that has affected my brain and how I perceive the world, how I see myself and others, and the relationships I have and don’t have with those others.
And dark and unhealthy relationships can be such a powerful outlet for me and for other people like me, or for people who have it worse than me, because everyone reacts to trauma differently, and while some of us can’t stand reminders of that trauma and avoid them, others find themselves inescapably attracted to them, like some sort of weird trauma bonding. And in a way, by scratching that itch in my brain with fictional unhealthy relationships, it’s both helping me cope and allowing me to stop myself from looking for real-life unhealthy relationships to satisfy it.

And this doesn’t necessarily only apply to people who have suffered trauma, either. I know some neurodivergent people who also find comfort in extremely dark content or characters, and honestly, I don’t understand why we have to shame any of them for it.

Is it healthy? Maybe. Maybe not. I’d have to ask a therapist.
But the point remains that there is value in those darker characters, whether it’s as an outlet for trauma, an outlet for neurodivergent people, and/or a fetish or fantasy of some people, and I’m just tired of people looking down on that stuff and looking down on people who like it.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk lmao.

(Also, sorry if this isn’t coherent. I tried my best to explain, but don’t hesitate to ask for clarification.)

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@dreamofeden and @Kirlett both had said it well, I’ll try if I can explain myself, well please bare with my English.

In the case of Jun/ko, I’ll use Jun here, it’s been awhile since I last played SOH book 1, but when he first been introduced, I was like “this one is for me!” the way he hunts the MC, that brings me thrill, maybe it’s because I’m into yandere, that kind of possessive and unyielding love, you know it’s unhealty but it’s also not real… I can’t think of anything else aside from repeat what @Kirlett had said.

And about Manerkol, I don’t care he would read my MC’s mind, in truth, I really dont’t care whatever my chosen RO do anything to my MC, I would really happy to see that happen, it’s not me anyway. It’s my chosen RO, if it was someone else who I don’t want to pursue, well I would feel angry too.

Manerkol and Jun/ko are so different from other ROs, other ROs are kind of positive characters, but these two, they are problemtic and questionable, I don’t know why Raven got tamed down but I liked them the way they were before the rewritten.

I do have some standard though, I don’t like it that if my MC would got crrupted by their problemtic RO, I’d like both of them remain who they were, I won’t be drawn to really really bad guys doing bad things without reason, Jun/ko hunts MC because they thought they killed their sensei and abandoned them and they are totally fucked up, and Manerkol also has his reasons to do what he’s doing, they have some motives and they have to do that or else they would have no reson to live anymore, something like that.

I… I hope I’ve said something understandable rather than gibberish… I can’t even explain it in my mother language… we have a saying, “man not be a bad guy, woman won’t love”, not an accurate translation, but, uh.

edit: can I also say it’s the “opposite attraction”? My MC would always be chaotic good if I can choose it, I’m also into “I love you but I’ll have to kill you” and enemy to lovers, isn’t it exciting that knowing the one would gut you in any heartbeat but also fall head over heels for you… wait, wait, that’s not the right explain but something like that.

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I had to admit Jun from SoH is my RO, and it is terrible, and I love it.

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my mc hates leon. i do not. i quite like him.

jun/ko. the more i’d hate to be in a relationship in real life, the more i like it in fiction. if i were with someone like jun/ko irl it’d be the worst most toxic unhealthy thing ever. in fiction, though? love it.

i’m not sure everyone hates him, but i’ve seen him a couple times in the RO’s you hate thread so i’ll mention him. marcus from defiled hearts. i like everything about him! he’s like. An Asshole. without being rude to the mc for literally no reason like many Jerk RO’s tend to do. he’s sarcastic (? is that the right word for it? idk. closest one to it i can remember though so we’re using it) without being so damn annoying like sooo many others “sarcastic” RO’s. like, it’s not overdone. love him.

basically, just give me the most toxic, drama-filled romance ever and i’ll devour it. i can like some normal healthy romances lol but they’re usually boring for me.

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Oh yeah I forgot Marcus is hated. I’ve seen people get upset he keeps implying that he knows who MC is - MC intends to kill him but Marcus having a bit of banter and giving us knowing looks makes him the real villain in this relationship :rofl:
Granted it’s hard to move past the whole Inigo Montoya shit, but Marcus’s dialogue at least is pure gold (and I still intend to kill him regardless at least once).

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Hard same. The angst, the longing, the regrets… .

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Throwing a glove for Jun/ko, but not exactly for the dark fantasy implied in that route. Simply put, the character is by far the most developed in the series second only to the Ronin, is very well integrated with the background of the story itself and of course theirpersonality, while wicked and absolutely vile, makes absolute sense and compliments nicely the journey of the Ronin, for good or for ill.

Simply put, thematically speaking, I find it the most compelling and thematically fitting romance, followed close by Toshie. It has cringy anime moments? Tons of it, but if you read SoH you either enjoy or became resistant to those a long time ago.

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