About the blood thing, I didn’t think you’d be able to never actually drink blood at all! I’m debating with myself if my character would rather keep it to a minimum, because he wouldn’t want to risk loosing control and hurting his friends, or would he be so stuborn as to refuse altogether and force through things with sheer willpower. I’m tempted to go with the later though, if only because I mean… I managed break the Cruel/Kind bar in favor of kindness…
I guess that says a lot about my MC’s mindset. So yeah, he’s quite opposed to drinking blood.
And well, then I’ll talk with the gang next time, though yeah, I still think it should be an option with the neighbour. I was split between the two when making my choice, and couldn’t reload because of the weird save bug.
And good to know about the romance points! I was a bit confused, mainly because of the crazy amount of Julian points!
I guess my perceptive and nice (among others with Andreas) MC won’t have any major issue with romances then.
Ah, I wanted to ask you!
Even if I won’t romance the human (well, unless I really fall in love with the character, that may happen too, obviously), is it still possible to build a friendship?
As in, is it possible to keep in contact with them even if not romancing? I remember you said somewhere more ruthless MCs can keep them for the blood, but that wouldn’t be an actual romantic relationship then. So basically, the question is - if you don’t do that AND don’t romance either, will the character be present in the story anyway?
Haha, I love the idea of having someone so stubborn and humane they wont drink human blood but should they fail their will checks, they end up doing wayyy more damage and harm. An instance of this will be in the next major update I’m working on now. Although on that point, I plan on rewarding people who play in a humane manner using the guilt bar. If they stick to their conscience they wont end up getting a dementation half way through the game, which severely impacts their ability to complete tasks and function properly, right now I’m thinking of three dementations; deformation, schizophrenia and a extreme version of supernatural OCD. But I might change these later on, just musing right now.
Yeah, I think your PC will have a easy time romancing most characters I should think. Poor vampires have gone a lifetime without people being kind to them.
With the human there will be two options, to form a genuine friendship and maybe later romance, or feed them your blood and make them crazy in love with you and compliant. Even if you chose not to romance the human, they will still be there. Almost all of the human scenes will be optional, but accessible even if you only want to form a friendship with them. They have two major story lines attached to them that you will still be able to influence, regardless of whether you romance them or not.
Hope that answers your question I’m plowing through tediously modifying the code to make Julian gender flippable, so I appreciate the distraction lol. Cheers!
Yeah, it answers my questions!
And glad to know I’ll be able to avoid the dementations, even if the risk is great because of the frenzy! It’s a very cool mechanic!
Hey!
So, I’ve been re-reading to see the latest update!
First things first, now the saves work - I guess the issue fixed itself when you updated or something!
The update was small, so I can’t say much about the content itself, it’s too early for that. Can’t also say anything about the pronouns since well, I still played with Julian.
Still, I’ll admit I laughed out loud at the choice about what to do with the device given by Julian - “Take the device, and use it on Julian now, just for the heck of it.”
So wild and random
Totally not for me, but I love the reasoning - or lack of reasoning.
Small typo I've missed before:
When Calder explains the MC will get a human for feeding purposes, if you inquire further, the choice says “Human? But why can’t I just drink from the blood bags in my room? And why do I need a specific human, cant I just feed from anyone down in the club?” - it should be “can’t I just feed”.
On the matter of that choice:
You said you’ll offer the chance to refuse the drink at the beginning if the MC doesn’t want to drink blood (right now, the only way to “not” drink that is to avoid picking the choice to try the drink, but the game proceeds as if the MC drank, I guess)…
Then when Calder talks about that human he’s preparing for the MC, I guess a new answer shoud be made possible too, saying the MC doesn’t want to drink blood from a human. I know I can avoid asking anything, but I think if the MC is strongly opposed to drinking blood, he’d tell so at that moment - if only to avoid getting a person involved.
Of course, Calder would certainly dismiss them and “provide” the human anyway.
Not to mention, being able to try and refuse getting a human would prompt the vampires to try and explain him why not only blood but fresh blood is supposedly a necessity, so it would allow the players to still get the information about why a live human is needed for a vampire’s well being.
Anyway, the more I think about it, the more I’m eager to see how the coterie, and well, especially Calder, will react to a MC who refuses to drink blood no matter what, who’d kill only if no other way is possible out of a situation, and who’s a mere Unremarkable yet able to recover his memories way earlier than most vampires (yeah, I still remember that!). I think they’ll see him as such a weirdo.
I wanted to ask though. From what I understand, an Unremarkable character lacks a lot in some stats compared to the actual clans… Will it be manageable to play the game as unremarkable and do complicated things like not drinking blood, with all the implications of that?
I guess the underlining question is: is the game written with an Unremarkable in mind, and the clans give bonuses to the player, or is the game written with an actual clan member in mind, and players with Unremarkable characters have maluses?
Hello again, Konoi! Thanks for all these super useful comments. I really want to stick to larger meaty updates, the only reason I uploaded this was because of the bug. As such I have yet to implement any of the previous comment you gave, rest assured that for the proper chapter 3 update, all your feedback will be implemented
Regarding the not drinking, I will add a small convo option where a distressed PC expresses displeasure at the bringing in of a human for them. In Chapter 3/4 you really get to explore this concept of, should you chose, abstaining from blood, in far more detail.
A Unremarkable does lack in stats, the optimal build for a remarkable would be to focus on intelligence, streetwise and perception really. But I want Unremarkables to be more flexible in stats, as opposed to the other clans, who are heavily incentivised to invest in the stats corresponding with their clans. (Sorcerers=Sorcery, Mad Clan=Insight, Beast Clan=Combat focus, Beauty focus=Social Stats and appearance) So in that regard I might add another way for Unremarkables to specialize in their personal stats preference further. Maybe there’s a stat you would have liked to use as a Unremarkable, but was not available? I toyed with the idea of adding a technology stat.
And yeah the coterie will be HEAVILY concerned if you abstain from drinking. Jack will be very sympathetic to this however. I’m not sure how I’m going to implement the weakening (except of course for the frenzy) from not drinking yet, especially since I’m musing with the thought of adding a time skip in two portions of the game. I need to see when I get to that, the first scene which triggers from lack of sustenance should be towards the end of chapter three.
To answer your final question, yes! It will be difficult but you can be Unremarkable, abstain from drinking, and manage to complete tasks. The game is designed with all the classes in mind, I’m really trying to make each one have a big chunk of content associated with each. Being Unremarkable will aid you in multiple ways, for example, other disenfranchised Unremarkables will help you and you can ingratiate yourself more into the human populace as an Unremarkable.
I have written in previous chapters descriptions of Jack flushing with heat, and welling with tears. Unremarkable’s retain more of their human biological functions, this will play a role during the completion of some tasks, and be both a boon and a hindrance.
Hope that makes sense, I think I drove myself mad coding all those pronoun changes lol
Oh I wasn’t trying to imply you forgot or disregarded - I was giving context to the thing I was asking about, for the moment Calder talks about the human.
Can’t wait!
Hmm I can’t really answer your question…? I managed to do what I wanted to do, so yeah…
I think the 5 stats I’m interested in, from higher to lower priority, are:
Perception > Willpower > Charisma > Intelligence > Streetwise?
Perception, Charisma and Intelligence, because I like that stat combo and I tend to use them, and well, a nice and friendly character is ought to be charismatic to an extent. Streetwise as an extension of Intelligence. And Willpower well… I’m planning to make a very stubborn character, not to mention the stat will be vital with the not drinking blood thing.
Rather than not being able to do something specific, at this point I’d rather say I’m concerned. My character is very nice, but that doesn’t mean he’s weak minded, the way I try to play it. I fear with playing a nice character, I won’t have enough opportunities to raise willpower, and that would be an issue with the whole frenzy situation. It happens often in text based games, sadly. People consider having a lot of willpower means being rebellious and hardcore and wild, but it can just as well mean standing by one’s beliefs, not letting go of ideals, supporting allies no matter what, resisting corruption…
Still, I have a question about that, unless it’s too spoilery for you to tell me, which I’d understand!
From the very beginning Julian said drinking blood is unavoidable. The vampires from Calder’s coterie repeated the same thing, and explained how vampires need not only blood, but they need some amount of fresh blood and so on. But you said it is possible to never drink blood during the entire game - and you’re even wondering about adding some sort of time skip. So definitely, that would mean the MC is somehow able to survive without drinking blood… Is this something any vampire could manage, with enough willpower and desire to do so, or is it something unique that only the MC has? I mean, Julian was wondering if Calder knows something about the MC he himself doesn’t…
I’m not sure?..
Lowering the stats isn’t really manageable since it would make the checks totally impossible to win after some time, and that’s not the goal… Not only it would kill the fun, but well, if you give the opportunity to play such a character, it would be weird not to allow players to “succeed” with them…
If it was my game, I’d add high stakes “challenges” for people who abstain from drinking. Like, every X time, the MC enters a trance-like state, and “dreams”. You’d have to face some kind of challenge in said dreams, and succeed. If you fail, stats would be lowered temporarily, and maybe after X failures, it would result in a game over? Of course, the challenges would have to be RP based for it to make sense, since the stats would already be hindered. Or, if fully RP based is too easy, then maybe something about staying true to the MC’s beliefs (personality checks - as much as I usually despise these, this would be a fun way to use them). But that may be hard to impement. Still, no harm in giving a suggestion, right?
Of course, there’s also the fact MCs who won’t drink blood won’t be able to use vitae to control humans. Well, my MC wouldn’t do that anyway, but it IS a thing.
I’m glad - being Unremarkable is one of the things I REALLY want in this game. I love the fact you can be that “generic” vampire that was considered trash until quite recently. I think with my MC being stubborn and all, it suits him to be an Unremarkable and be satisfied with that, and still work hard to succeed in whatever task he’s assigned.
Oh, so that’s why Jack and my MC look “normal”, as opposed to glowy Julian or chalky sandpaper Calder?
Oh no, I did not think you were at all, I just wanted to put it out there, so yall know that any suggestions you make will be used in future.
Regarding the concept of willpower being equated to rebellious, loud chaarcters often in story games. I 100% agree and have in previous games found this frustrating. How I plan on having willpower increase is through mainly: Resisting social manipulation attempts and mind control attempts from other vampires, and through mainting consistent in your PC’s beliefs, even if it would be easier to disregard them. (being a sorcerer also boosts it) So yeah, basically what you said, all very good points
So this is all temporary and might change. But in terms of it being mentioned that vampires need to drink or they go in like a ‘stasis’. Yes this is true, and does apply to the PC. But it takes ages to come into effect, like years. If I do implement time skips it will be months, so your PC will not enter stasis, but they will become weak. I don’t think I want to have it reduce stats, because as you said, it would make the game less fun. I think what I might do is have a variable, which specifies how long/how deep into blood malnutrition you are, and based on that, certain scenes will trigger during certain tasks, most often combat I would say, would trigger different scenes for weak characters. Again, I’m going to have to play around with this and see how to implement it in a unique way that does not make it overly frustrating.
Also on that note, I really don’t want to make it so that your MC is unique, or special, that they are the only one who can withstand blood malnutrition or something. But I think your MC will be semi unique, along with other newly turned, in that they regain their memories much faster. All because of this concept of the characters being in ‘the final nights’, where everything is turning to shit basically. More on this at the end this chapter that I’m currently writing.
The idea of adding high stakes challenges to abstinent characters is really a good one, and something I’m going to think on more. It gives an interesting spin to it.
Yes that is why Jack looks ‘normal’ lol, also it’s because shes the only one I would say, ‘true good’ aligned character of the bunch (which you can most definitely change throughout the course of the story). The other’s have like dark side corruption or something lol. Having low humanity will also have effects on appearance and such, which is why Calder and Julian, while beautiful, kinda look creepy and inhuman. Uncanny valley or something.
Ah, that’s really cool then!
I’m always wary of having character that would rely on willpower because of how the stat often works in these games. Glad to know it’ll be different here!
Ah, I see - I thought it would be a thing that would happen way faster than that!
Though it brings a new set of problems - well, not really, I mean, not writing-wise, but rather, a new set of internal conflict for the MC and the players. I don’t know if by years you mean something close to 5, 10, 20 or maybe 50 years, but the fact remains if the MC never drinks blood, they will “die” at some point, something vampires are not usually subject to, unless killed, right? And well, if it’s closer to the 5 or 10 years, especially for young MCs, then they’ll die way earlier than they would have as a human - that would be less of a problem if it’s around 50+ years, of course. Anyway, my point being, it will be hard for the selected RO. I mean, when they realize the MC TRULY doesn’t want to and WON’T drink blood, ever, they’ll understand their lover will die “soon”.
Now, I’m not saying this is a bad thing - especially since it’s the player choice! I’ll probably play a second time with a MC who drinks at least some blood, though keeping it to the minimum.
But in case of abstinent MCs, I wonder what each RO would do. I mean, Aside from Jack, I’m certain the vampires would try to convince them to drink again and again, but other than that, would some of them try to find some alternative, via magic or whatever, to keep the MC alive? Or maybe to what extent would they go to actually make the MC drink?
Haha, you don’t have to answer that! At this point it’s merely me musing about that!
Though feel free to share your thoughts if you want to! I don’t mind the slight spoilers either!
I like the idea, it may be interesting!
I see! Understandable - I was curious, that’s it.
Will the memories thing be related to each MC’s mindset, or a default thing? As in, does that happen if the MC suffers from having lost their memories / wants to recover them (or, alternatively, if they have high humanity), or will it happen for all MCs?
A new mystery to add to the list!
Glad to know you like it!
Oh yeah, I forgot humanity influences looks too.
I guess it means you can change her for the worse. But Calder aside, does that also mean you can change the other vampires for the best?
That being said…
You know what’s funny?
After all that talk about not wanting to romance the human, now I find myself hesitating.
Thing is, one of the main reasons I didn’t want to romance the human, is that I’m a bit tired of games that include romances between characters with very different lifespans, or even an immortal and a mortal character, because one of them will always remain alone in the end. The worst about that is that most games don’t even tackle the subject. You have your love story, that sometimes talk about possible taboos about interspecies love, and that’s it, happy ending. But very few games talk about how one of the two will age and the other not, about how one of them will die way before the other (or die while the other not, in case of actual immortals). Of course, for a perfect happy ending, I like when I can remedy that one way or another during the game. But that’s rarely possible…
So yeah, my main reason for not wanting to romance a human in this game was that. But if the stasis is bound to happen, that makes things… more… fair, in a way? Well, when romancing the human, I mean.
Not to mention, I assume the human you can romance is the same as the one Calder will “provide” for the MC. And I’m kind of intrigued of what the story behind that will be, and how the relationship will start between the MC and them. I don’t mean how the romance will start, if romancing them - I’m genuinely talking about their first meeting and relationship at the beginning.
Basically, I’m eager to meet them!
I still think I’ll go for Calder in my first playthrough, now that I’ll be able to do so without having to get romantic with Andreas, but I may be tempted to try the human romance at a later point too.
That reminds me, now that I’ve seen more of Andreas, I definitely know it would totally suit my MC to romance Calder and be fine with Andreas also being in a relationship with him. I hope Andreas won’t mind that much, but I guess as long as they like the MC it’ll be fine?
Hee hee, Andreas likes A+ blood. That’s my type IRL (tastes like copper ).
Playing as one of the mad clan is a lot more fun than I expected it would be, I love how you can just use your visions to gain the information you need, and seeing everyone’s reactions to your cryptic speech is great too.
Found a couple of weird bugs/typos in the newest update, I don’t know if it’s related to Julian/a’s gender?
Thanks so much for taking the time to read, and for pointing out the bug. I used Julian’s opinion stat by accident, uploaded a new copy with a fix just now.
I’m so glad you like playing as the mad clan. I really want to go back and add more flesh to that clan in the future, in terms of having every dialogue option rephrased cryptically, like they do in Vampire The Masquerade. Because honestly, Malkavian characters are my personal favorite to play, and I wanna do my version of them the justice they deserve.
Thanks again for taking the time to leave feedback!
Hi, Konoi. Having these discussions has actually had me thinking a lot, and adding more to romance/high opinion scenes for characters, in terms of their backstories.
I think having the dilemma of being abstinent from blood, but also romantically involved with a vampire, who obviously wants you to carry on living, is a interesting one to pose. Each character would go about it differently. For example, I could imagine Jack accepting your choice, and respecting it. Andreas doing everything in their power to find a magical/supernatural substitute to blood. Calder would think you were weak and let you slowly kill yourself. And Julian/Juliana would probably just trick you into drinking blood and not respect your wishes at all, particularly because they themselves have a relevant backstory, where in they were forced into Purgatorium(blood malnutrition stasis) numerous times, and as such have trauma attached to it.
In terms of how long it takes you to enter Purgatorium, I think I’m going to say like 10 years. But in the 5 year plus range you basically become bed ridden (changes based on numerous variables, so you could be lucky and get more time than that). Also going into Purgatorium, does not kill you straight away, it might take hundreds of years to kill you. Purgatorium is like a stasis where in you are still conscious, so many go insane if entering into it for too long. Vampires can exit this state of stasis by being given blood by another.
All this is making me excited to write the scenes that trigger from abstinence now!
In terms of recovering memories, I think how I’m going to do it, is that if your character expresses a desire to retrieve them often, then it will trigger. I also want the retrieval of memories to trigger in a character who has a high guilt. If they become a monster, and feel bad for what they have done, triggering their memories will be a final chance for them to change their moral compass, before gaining a dementation. I also want it to be possible for a character to resist having their memories return, which I think would be in character for an unabashedly evil MC.
Right now I have it possible for Jack to go from being a ‘true good alignment’ to a ‘true neutral’ and then in more extreme play through where she enters a poly relationship with Calder, she can be modified to a ‘chaotic evil’. But that is going to be difficult to achieve. You can also modify Andreas from a ‘true neutral’ alignment to a ‘true evil’ alignment, which is much easier to achieve than Jack’s switch to the dark side lol. I have not planned for any characters being better, or more moral. But you can definitely sway Andreas to be nicer and kinder, just not to an extent in which he fundamentally changes his moral compass. Hes kind, but incredibly selfish I’m afraid. And while Calder looks super young, he’s actually the oldest vampire in the cast, around 800 years old, or older. So, changing his mind about fundamental things like morality, will not be possible. He is most definitely stuck in his ways.
Yes, the human romance is the human that Calder provides, they will be introduced soon! And yes I suppose, with you having a decent 10 years before you fall totally into stasis, you could live a decently happy life with the human for a good chunk of time. Your humane MC could see vampirism as just being all gravy, an opportunity to have an extra 10 years with someone they love, and then fading into sleep. I actually want one of the endings to be where you basically say fuck it to all the vampire politic drama and go off with the human (or another RO, or by yourself if you don’t romance anyone) and let whatever happens in the finale, happen. So you can get a happy ending down the human route, but there’s a twist associated with the human character which might make you reconsider it
No, Andreas will not mind, as long as you don’t actively try and bring a wedge between him and Calder. He will be hesitant and a little jealous, but as long as you maintain a decently high friendship with him, and reassure him, there should be no rivalry forming. Although he will try and form a poly romance with you and Calder, but you will be able to turn him down, nicely or not so nicely.
Okay I see! Well, that is a semi-decent amount of time!
Oh, it’s interesting to be able to resist the return of the memories. I don’t necessarily think it has to mean the character is evil though. If a MC is excited to become a vampire, not because of being evil, but because of the sheer novelty and magic and stuff, they may not want to remember they were “normal” before. More of an eccentric approach. Also, others MCs may be affraid of recovering their memories because they’d know what they have lost. If they’re the fatalistic or pessimistic kind, they may think “I’d rather not remember and accept this new life than suffer the loss”.
Okay! I still think of it as a “yes” for Andreas though. It would be weird to be able to change his actual moral compass, but them being nicer and stuff is still a change for the better, even if slight. Well, not that I think of them as evil to begin with.
And well, I’ve excluded Calder from the question because… yeah…
I love you for that! I call it the “abandon the quest” trope - and it’s one of my favorite tropes ever. The MC dropping whatever quest they have because they don’t want any of this anymore and/or they wish to do so for their love interest or other dear person. I looove it when games include these types of endings.
Sometimes these are very happy endings, sometimes very tragic, but I always love these.
Oh really now? Aaah, yet another mystery…
But I mean, I don’t even know if I’ll select that ending - with my MC being so stubborn.
And I’ll probably also replay with a MC that would reluctantly drink blood from time to time, so yeah… that ALSO may change things.
Well, that shouldn’t be an issue with playing such a nice MC.
This is something that may be interesting. My MC certainly won’t aim for that, but well, in very rare occasions I can appreciate poly, so depending on the dynamics between the characters, IF Andreas is the one to try and initiate it, I may or may not go that route. Probably not, but I wouldn’t label it as impossible either, in these circumstances.
The point about other MC’s that arent evil also not wanting to recover their memories is a good one, and something I will implement when asking the MC why they don’t want to remember.
In terms of swaying Andreas to be better, I mean as in, if your MC acts in a kind and ‘morally’ upstanding manner, they (Andreas) will also follow suit if they like you/ are in a relationship with you. But they will do this to make you like them more/ not come into conflict with you, not because they think it’s the ‘right’ thing to do. But with Jack’s lowering of alignment, and Andreas’ lowering of alignment. You can harden them to the point of fundamentally changing what they see as being evil/immoral, and change what they prioritize in their life. For example. A ‘good’ Jack will reluctantly do harm to others, if they truly believe there is no other course of action. A neutral Jack will be more inclined to pursue her personal goals primarily, and be damned with the consequences. But a Jack that is hardened to the point of being chaotic evil, will go out of her way to make others suffer, and enjoy doing so (getting her to this point will be super difficult, but doable).
These alignment changes are also why I really wanted to include time skips. Seems ridiculous that you could change peoples minds to such a dramatic extent in a few weeks or months. Especially if they are hundred year old plus vampires.
Lol I also love this trope, you can tell I come from more of a gaming background not a writer one Convincing some of the romances to go along with your decision to, let whatever will be will be, and gtfo, will be difficult though.
Ah, I get it, yeah. Makes sense! But well, at least the results will be there
That much is pretty obvious. It wouldn’t make sense!
Yeah, I did’t really see that in books, and it makes sense since it’ll put an early end to the adventure. It’s different when we talk about game endings.
Hey! Absolutely nothing of use to add to, except that I loved it and can’t wait to see where it goes! (Also love the name- Nihilous is one of the best Legends Sith Lords!)
Hey, thanks for pointing those out, I was sure I missed some, my attention to detail is abysmal, I will admit. I just updated the link with fixes now.
And I’m glad to hear you hate Calder and co, they are most certainly a love em or hate em lot.
You can officially align yourself with Julian/a at the end of chapter three, but you have to stay with the others as a kinda spy afterwards. But you’ll have plenty of opportunities to spend time with Julian/a (and less time spent with the others, if you so chose) if you do decide to align with them. Plus you can kill most of them tbh, very cathartic.
Thanks for reading, and giving your feedback. Very much appreciated
I’m plowing through tediously modifying the code to make Julian gender flippable, so I appreciate the distraction lol. Cheers!
)
That’s my type IRL (tastes like copper 
).
