I feel like Lucifer’s abilities are VERY op. He can break into anyone’s mind and cause someone to go catatonic or even kill someone in the nightmare only if the target doesn’t have a very strong will. If Lucifer uses enough of his power, he can trap someone in their nightmare. His nightmare abilities seem to get stronger since they greatly improved when he met Ares and was able to customize the nightmare Lucifer trapped him in only for a short amount of time, and it still distracted Alexander. He can take full control of someone’s nervous system and can cause someone to feel all types of things or stop the feeling in their limbs. His weakness isn’t even bad, either. I think his weakness is less inconvenient than the rest of the MC.
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I feel like Pele should be a lot older since he is an elemental spirit. I mean, Pele were actually in the volcano for thousands of years but were only born 1300 years ago.
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His mind powers are OP, but can be stopped with a great enough willpower. We saw that with Ares momentarily, and with Alyosha.
And even though his weakness isn’t that bad compared to the other fables, I feel like Zeus would have the least combative weakness out of all of them. He’s just a druggie.
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Just to make you aware, Dashingdon hosting will be closing soon so I would recommend moving this to cogdemos or uploading a compiled html file:
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I know that but he can still see every single one of his opponents memories and weaknesses in less than a second and can manipulate the opponent or just use his nervous system power it is basically unlimited and plus the only reason why he couldn’t use his mind powers on Alyosha is because he had no fears and was not traumatized he didn’t have any mental scars to exploit.
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Yeah. He can see every one of his opponents memories and weaknesses, I don’t see how that would help him. What is he going to do? Try to give some drugs to Zeus? Go to the nearest ocean and get a bucket of water for Pele? I don’t see how that’s optimal in battle. In advance, sure, not in the moment.
His nervous system power, as much as we’ve seen so far, we don’t have any knowledge that there is an upper limit to it. So, that would really be a great power to have in battle and an OP one too. But again some of the fables, it wouldn’t really work as well on. Zeus and Pele don’t really need function of their bodies to use their powers. Ishtar would be interesting as we don’t know if she has control of her flight power in a way that she doesn’t need her body to control it. Janus, I could see it being a big detriment for him, even if he saw it coming in advance, there’s really no way he could stop it, unless he wants to stop time, and that would do more harm than good. I could see it working on Wukong, as Luci could stop him from transforming by direct hits to his nervous system.
To your last point, I would say it’s more speculation about why Alyosha was the one to resist Lucifer’s powers, but for me, knowing Lucifer’s backstory and his bout with Ares, he couldn’t do much to him due to him having a similar willpower and mental fortitude as himself. So, he had to rely on his nervous system power. And that’s what did him in. I would think it’s more of the same with Alyosha.
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No, Lucifer can use this as an advantage to manipulate them. The only character most likely immune to Lucifer’s nightmare power is Sun Wukong. Lucifer’s influence works on Zeus because Zeus still needs a physical body to function. What is Zeus going to do with his lightning powers if he is almost catatonic from experiencing so much pain, or if his body completely shuts down? Similarly, Pele has veins and experiences pain; if he didn’t need a body to function, he wouldn’t have his water weakness.
When Lucifer fought Alexander, he successfully invaded Alexander’s mind but could not completely shut it down because his mind was simply too strong. “I would argue that it is more of a speculation as to why Alyosha was able to resist Lucifer’s powers”. However, this is actually the truth. Alyosha tells Lucifer, “Maybe it’s not about what’s in me, but what’s not in me anymore. Despair, fear, self-doubt—I’ve burned them all away until I was whole again. If I don’t fear it, there is nothing for you to work with.” Alyosha explains to Lucifer that he doesn’t have a mental scar for Lucifer to exploit, but still believes that Lucifer thinks he cannot trap him in a nightmare because there is something special in his mind.
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Mental scar or not, different experiences or not, I would still argue that because Luci could only do so much with Ares, it’s not going to affect the Fables as much, who are just as or more powerful than Ares was at that time. Mentally and Power wise.
As, I’ve implied, his Nervous Wreck power is a different matter altogether though. As much as we’ve seen, we don’t know that there is an upper limit to it. If there is, it hasn’t been shown and has yet to be. I can understand what you say, but my interpretation of his powers working on the other fables is different. Zeus doesn’t need his body to work his powers, it’s just a facet of it as he can channel energy through his body. As long as his mind still works, he can still communicate with the skies. Body or not. Same with Pele, I don’t think Pele actively relies on his body to activate his nuclear meltdown power, I think it’s just more of a reflex. Paralyzed or not, I believe Lucifer would have the hardest time with them individually if they were to meet head to head, It would undoubtedly be a hard fought battle for each fable though. I do believe all of Fables have at least some tolerance of pain resistance, as we’ve seen through some fight scenes of with the fables, getting hit doesn’t affect them that much when they’re affected by injury. Arthur more so than ever when he’s bloodlusted.
As far as Alyosha, yeah, he’s conquered his fears, went through hell, and gained a stronger willpower for it. Which is something I believe the fables all have at base, due to experiences and age.
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I think you are ignoring the fact that Lucifer had mastered his mind abilities much further than when he faced Ares cause when he was fighting ares he could only apply Nightmare visions that break down the target’s mind now he can effectively trap people in the dreamscape then cause nightmares, not only that Lucifer has a god-killing blade that he knows how to use really well, in fact, he is one of the physically stronger mc. His Nervous Wreck power is tied to his mind powers so he can just effectively shut someone’s body down what makes you think that Zeus would be able to use his electricity powers with no problem while his organs are shutting down he also needs a body to function do you really think he is going to be fine while he is near catatonia and its very clear that Lucifer can not be incapacitated by lightning powers because of regenerative powers which were shown when Alyosha caused a fire explosion and Lucifer burst into flames and still stayed conscious. Pele does rely on his body to active his nuclear meltdown he has to use all the heat in his body to do that it really drains him so he clearly can’t spam the ability and has to wait a long time in order to do it again he also has one of the worst physical capabilities out of the mc because he relies on his durability and his OP ability Lucifer is above him in terms of physical strength the god killing blade might surpass his durability but that’s debatable. Lucifer has quite a high pain tolerance but I do think Arthur has the highest when he is blood-lusted but then again he still has more human weaknesses than Lucifer because he was going to bleed out and die if he didn’t get found by Yoru’s mother while Lucifer easily whithstood a fire explosion without breaking a sweat So Lucifer is above him in terms of durability but Arthur is above him in terms of physical capabilities.
I don’t think all fables went through hell. There are only certain fables that could counter Lucifer’s nightmare ability, and those people are Arthur, Sun Wukong and maybe Janus.
Yes, Lucifer got stronger since the Ares battle, so did every other fable in one way or another. Either through gaining battle experience or recognizing a new ability. I don’t see your argument here.
Lucifer didn’t trap Ares in his own dream because he couldn’t, Ares will was too strong for that.
A god-killing blade is great. I still don’t believe it will be a determining factor in the battles against the other fables and I still believe some other fables win more often than not against him. As long as a fable can match him in willpower and mental fortitude, his powers can be reasonably tamed. Both of them.
Lucifer obtained broken ribs from a bullrush by Alyosha, he’s not above Pele in durability or physical strength.
Zeus’s powers have nothing to do with fire, I don’t know where you came up with that argument to justify Luci beating him. Electricity and fire are different things and work very differently from one another. As well as, every fable being way above Alyosha in power.
Reasonably, I think a few of the fables could counter Lucifers powers well enough, others, not so much. You tell me what makes you think Sun and Janus could do to stop Luci’s powers the most out of every fable, besides possibly having equal/greater willpower.
As for the rest of the post, I think you’re just mostly going off of speculation by what you think Lucifer will and will not be affected by, other than what we’ve seen and not seen from him and the other fables so far.
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Lucifer’s mind-controlling powers got stronger, not just his physical capabilities. You are acting like his mind abilities didn’t get stronger.
Again you read my reply wrong I said that when he was fighting ares he could only apply nightmare visions and didn’t know how to effectively trap someone in the dreamscape because he wasn’t as experienced with his mind abilities he trapped Alyosha in the dreamscape even tho his will was too strong probably even stronger than Ares because he still had the guilt of killing his brother. Lucifer still caused nightmare visions, which allowed him to cut off Ares hand.
My argument was Lucifer not being able to get incapacitated by Electricity because of regenerative powers. Also, fire is much more dangerous than electricity, especially when it was a fire explosion.
Durability and Physical strength are very different when Pele was training with Yoru he didnt have enough physical strength to cause a shockwave using his hands so he could bulldoze Yoru’s shadow pillars the power stat measures physical strength dont diss Lucifer’s physical capabilities just because he mostly relies on mind powers he is much more experienced in hand to hand combat since he had to fight demons for 200 years and only rested for a few days Pele himself admitted that he is inexperienced in hand to hand combat when he was fighting Ares he literally relies on his control over lava and he nearly died from a rain storm.
No, the opponent has to be above Lucifer in willpower to surpass his nervous system ability. He was able to control Alexander’s nervous system with ease. The other fables are not above Ares that much in terms of willpower.
Sun Wukong has endured the most suffering out of all the fables, and he has no mental scars to take advantage of. He also has no fear like Alyosha. He probably has the most willpower out of all the fables.
Again it’s not a speculation. You most likely don’t even choose Lucifer in Broken Fable. You are getting mind abilities seriously wrong. He also does regenerate from the fire explosion Alyosha caused unless you think he’s a pile of bones, then that’s your choice.
I said before that Lucifer got stronger, as did every fable in the Ares battle, did I not?
Speculation. There is nothing in the text suggesting Lucifer did not know how to effectively use his mind ability at this point. His powers grew from his bout with Jehovah and Sariel, that’s effectively what the text says and implies.
Let’s be very clear when we use the word “trapped”. Lucifer didn’t trap Alyosha, he got booted out nearly just as quick as he came in. Almost the same with Ares, which is why he relied on his nervous system power. I would agree that Alyosha is mentally stronger than Ares based on how fast he got Lucifer out of his head, but I would disagree on what circumstances Luci needs to use his powers. To me, Lucifer needs no circumstances, an innocent memory in anyone’s mind can turn just as dark and deadly as someone who hides scars. We saw this with Kyra.
I would disagree with you on the Zeus part. As for Luci’s regeneration power, he needs blood to activate it. He’s not going to get that in battle if he gets hurt, unless he starts taking random people off the street during the fight, which would leave him open in the worst of ways.
By that logic, Wukong should confidently be able to hurt each other fable below him in power, with Zeus being the only one who could seriously hurt him in opposition because they’re near equal in power. Lesson to learn, don’t rely on every stat you see for a character on a game menu, it might not reflect the actual power of the character in game. Besides, the author is planning a stat and menu rework.
Again, I never said Lucifer was a terrible opponent, at hand-to-hand, mentally or anything. I don’t know where you’re getting this from but it’s kinda starting to annoy me. I would agree with a statement that Lucifer is a better fighter than Zeus or Pele, maybe even Ishtar.
Agree to disagree.
Agree to disagree.
You most likely don’t know what I choose unless you can see through my eyes for me. Don’t make statements like that.
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No, before you made that reply, you thought that he couldn’t trap Ares because his will was too strong, while I replied to you saying that it was because he didn’t master his mind abilities, and you still disagreed and called it a speculation and keep calling it a speculation even tho I have proof it is getting a bit irritating what is a speculation is you saying that Zeus can use his electric powers when his body is shutting down like its no problem for him even tho he uses his body to conduct the electricity so he can use lightning bolts this is said from the start when you are Zeus.
Again, this is not a speculation. He was able to trap Alyosha, who arguably is equal to Ares in willpower, in the dreamscape. What did go wrong for Lucifer was that Alyosha realised he was in the dreamscape because of his will and then found Lucifer’s disembodied spirit in there and woke up.
No, he did trap him in the dreamscape this is why I’m saying read it again in dreamscape time goes very slowly he felt like he was in the dreamscape for a few minutes but in real life, he was only in there for about less than a fraction of a second so was the clouded praetor and kaya so he did trap Alyosha because he didn’t go in the dreamscape willingly. Wrong It wasnt the same case because Lucifer cut of Ares hand which made him stop seeing the nightmare vision then realised what was going on, Then he amplified the pain ares was feeling which caused near catatonia. I sort of agree on that Lucifer has mastered his abilities allot and can use a persons loved ones.
Lucifer does not need blood to regenerate this has never been said you were literally saying that all I was saying about Lucifer’s powers is a speculation yet you are literally making a speculation about him needing blood to heal this is why I’m telling you to read it again he only needs blood to function properly its his source of life his powers make him feel his urge for blood the more power he uses the bigger the urge.
It is quite clear you barely choose Lucifer. You seem to know a very small amount of information about him, and almost everything you said about him was wrong.
We are just going to have to agree to disagree on these points, this conversation is getting nowhere fast and I’m tiring. You say I’m wrong and don’t know luci, and I say your case for Lucifer is entirely made up of what-ifs than anything else.
Good chat and discussion though, we just don’t see eye-to-eye. Your Interpretation is just different from mine.
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Personally, I view Lucifer’s powers to be slightly below story breaking levels of OP since not only can people power through the painful sensations they induce, but it seems that characters who are seemingly weaker than them can power through their nightmare abilities assuming they have sufficient force of will. It’s very case by case, and that makes its level of power a bit inconsistent; in the best case, Lucifer can just make anyone take their own lives or paralyze them long enough to take them out personally, but in the worst case, it can be entirely useless and they’ll have to rely on their physical prowess.
But I’m a Sun Wukong fan and thought their powers were pretty OP, so what do I know?
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If Janus bring can other characters from different timeline that’s probably op.
At least we have moved away from the original style of this conversation after centuries of it.
From
Nah uhh ‘insert person is more op’ [donkey noises]
To at least some civility. But it’s still kinda the same convo on repeat isn’t it?
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It’s over guys we all know Timur is the big fish.
I’m not starting a power scaling I’m just saying it could be op, cause I don’t really know how Janus can 1v1 Timur.
Ironically, given their power, Janus would know how they could 1v1 Timur. Though the most likely outcome of that is:
Janus: “I just looked at 74 millions futures where we fight Timur”
Attila: “And how many do we win?”
Janus: “I’ll let you know when I find one.”
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Just imagine in the final battle Janus actually win, but the plot twist is his hallucinating.
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