Wayhaven Book 4 Discussion Thread

As there isn’t currently a dedicated thread for discussing Wayhaven 4, I’ve created this thread for it.

Here’s the current demo.

@Seraphinite if and when you’d like to make your own discussion thread, please let the moderators know and we can merge them.

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Thoughts on the new demo?
Spoilers (really really vague so safe to read tbh):

Bro my simp ass always copes but this is difficult even for me, barely any RO content, most of it was fluffer or some random team I genuinely could not give two shits about!!! My dear Mishka if you’re reading this, please add more RO content…that is the main reason people buy these books, not for some side character lore that you keep digressing the story for. Every page will take up some amount of time, and most of the time was taken up by side quests. Even when we were with the ROs there was no one on one communication, and at this point of the story that is VITAL. Especially with more stoic-y routes like A and M. They need to sit down and talk. Now, for the A route, it feels like we barely even saw him!! mans already gives us nothing and now he’s not even in the story! We need more RO Pov’s man. I’m just disappointed because the wait is long, and I don’t have much content to even mull over.

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There’s been an update recently?

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I have only played M’s route (I have no interest in any others, at this point), but agree with everything you said.

Spoilers under the cut...

Yes!! I couldn’t believe the majority of the two chapters were with another team (UA, UV, or UD) and either the villain’s POV or the villain. How the hell are we at the end of chapter 4 and not talked about the blood bond yet? The interruptions aren’t even surprising anymore, really. As soon as MC is ready to tell the LI (and UB) about Li’sar telling them that they want to “union” with them or they’ll die and/or kill everyone around them, a “dome” being put into place interrupts them. I wonder if it’s to keep only the MC inside? And if it will be gone by the end of the next chapter, as most problems tend to be.

The update wasn’t bad. It wasn’t great, either. Just kind of meh. I get why there’s no time with the LI–if there was time with them, then conversations would be had, progress would have to be made, and things wouldn’t be dragged out longer. It’s just tiresome.

That said, M is all kinds of awesome for the fifteen seconds we see them. The only issue with it is the ridiculousness of not being in a relationship while being in a relationship. I also love A as bff.

When I played it (I’m on her Patreon), I scanned the code after the first run so I wouldn’t have to waste time replaying only to get a few different paragraphs. The team i got the first time was UV after a random pick. I have to say, while I hated Alima in the training (Dezh would’ve knocked this bitch on her ass), the discussion during the “break” (after “training” for ten minutes, lol) made both me and Dezh empathize with her. Loving someone who doesn’t love you back sucks balls. I just didn’t get her saying that M is worth fighting for–I mean, that’s true, but the one you have to fight is M themself, so it’s kind of a moot point. M’s the one who has to make a decision.

The other team, UD, was okay, I guess. Not really my cup of tea. Out of all three, I did like UA the best, probably because they fit better with Dezh than any other team ("got a problem? smash through it and keep going.). Lesedi, in particular, is pretty awesome. Nice, but not overbearing or prissy. Kind of what I always thought N should be.

Still, I wish we could’ve skipped the “training” (asking hypotheticals isn’t training) and had some alone time with our LI. Alas, things must be dragged out, so that isn’t allowed. At the very least, the training should’ve been about controlling our newly acquired powers. It makes no sense for the Agency to leave the MC with a weapon they clearly can’t control and could hurt not only their team, but everyone around them (and the MC themselves). It seems to me that the Agency would find someone with similar powers or with magic and let them teach the MC how to get a handle on their super duper sparky hand. But then, the Agency never makes any sense, so maybe it fits.

Yeah, there’s really not much there this time. Just filler. I’m just hoping we manage to use our powers, instead of walking around whining about them and worrying about hurting the LI (newsflash, if you learn to control them, you won’t hurt anyone and will only have to worry about burning to ash if you don’t “union” with Li’sar).

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The only reason why I haven’t said anything regarding the new stuff is because, imo, there’s not a whole lot to say this time around. Good to see a thread for b4 though, at least you don’t have to blurry old spoilers anymore.
Genuine question though: does anyone like the new RO? Cause personally they’re waaaay to over the top for me (although the joke’s on me)

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I’m not playing the villain romance route. Like you, I find them way over the top. Plus it’s suffering from the same thing as the other romances at this point in the demo–there’s too little interaction. Instead of having a long scene with the villain screwing with local townspeople, I’d have preferred a scene where they do that in front of the MC, using their power to keep the MC from interfering (plus that would make them far more frightening). Even better, holding the MC hostage while “teaching” them how to use their power by basically taking them over and using MC’s power to fuck with townspeople.

But yeah, I’m not going to play the villain romance. Not interested.

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See now that would have been interesting to see.
Even though I really had no standards to keep up with, since by now you should know what to expect from wayhaven’s romance, I was hoping the “enemies to lovers” so to speak would be at least interesting, but imo this character suffers majorly from the wayhaven villain syndrome. Alas “bwhahaha I’m evil!!”
Definitely won’t look into it further, I already get enough psychic damage from romancing A. Oh and another thing I wanted to mention is that, since you see it while playing the villain route, it’s still incredible how open A is in their no romance path. Imagine it were that easy for them to admit they care in their actual route lmao :sob:

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A is awesome as a bff. I don’t think Dezh could have any of the others as bff.

What did you think of the Rebecca outburst?

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I’m sorry, but when I got to that part I really got the impression this explosion was a roundabout way to try to change the player’s opinion on her. :sob:
It was waaay too amped up drama wise to feel anything but. The game really wants you to like her and this was another occasion of “look! She worries!” but I couldn’t care less :saluting_face:

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I had the same impression. It was kind of a baseball bat to the head: “Love her, dammit! She is so great!” But I’m a stubborn pain in the ass, so the more you push me to do something the less likely I am to do it. Plus, I just don’t like Rebecca and think it’s bullshit that losing her husband was justification for neglecting her child. Bah.

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This is something I absolutely don’t understand: why does the author care SO much about us liking Rebecca? I mean, I get it, it’s nice to have that amazing forgiveness arc and being the bigger person, but :sob::sob: not everyone wants to play that way. My MC is as far from forgiving her as possible, stop trying to shove down our throats how amazing Rebecca is and how deeply she regrets everything. Maybe my MC doesn’t want to forgive her, no matter how hard anyone tries and I actually think there should be more „cold”/„harsh” options when interacting with her :nerd_face:

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The Detective just can’t catch a break it seems.


I’m definitely looking forward to seeing how our new abilities can be applied in later chapters or how much it’s going to screw us over. Lowkey, kinda digging how unapologetically dismissive Li-Sar is.

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How to sum it up…idk. At this point, I wish Douglas was a RO, at least we’d get somewhere with him. The fatigue is real and Mason is the only RO I’m (barely) clinging to at this point.

Agree with all the mom-dram comments. I mean, just let it be what it is. The constant, incessant narrative nagging MC about how they feel about Rebecca (like @EvilChani said) just makes me want to push her away. I started the series thinking we’d be close, at this point, I just want to tell her to move to Greenland or Siberia or somewhere very cold and very far away. She is a freaking side character, just let her be. Pretty sure we cemented our relationship in book 2, why must we continue to re-examine it multiple times in every book? Very frustrating.

And for the love of all things holy, do we need a new (and villainous) RO in book 4 after literally a decade of pining over the OG 4 RO. It’s very confusing. Maybe it will all make sense later, and I hope it will but I am maintaining a HEALTHY amount of skepticism.

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You know what could have helped the evil ro route? A jealousy mechanic, which we will never see because it looks like you can only pick them if you don’t romance anyone else.

Like wouldn’t it have been better to give you the chance to grow tired of idk A for example, so when big bad evil ro you’ll get to switch attraction if you want (which, btw, didn’t particularly like the ““forced”” soulmate-y feel this route has. Like it seems like another way to strip control from mc) but also see your old ro react.
Idk introducing a new love interest in b4 feels a little too late, especially without some added weight to it. But, again, this is my opinion and I’m sure someone out there is ready to throw their underwear at mx evil and I’m happy for them lol :sob:

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This series is exhausting to me. Putting romance aside, B4 seems to be repeating flaws from the previous book, like the Agency being incompetent. At least I had fun writing my thoughts down.
Content warning: It’s long.

What annoyed me
  • MC was sent alone with Oxton Simpson, or whatever his name is, to strengthen the prison of basically a god. Even in McDonald’s if you are new to flipping burgers you are with a supervisor whose sole job is to supervise and teach you so you won’t burn the whole place down. There should be an entire team on site, not only to test MC but to make sure no one outside of the Agency tries anything while the prison is weaker. Did they forget they are compromised? You know, because of the SPY!?!? The Agency treats this prison strengthening business so… nonchalantly? Effectively killing the stakes. If the characters in the world can’t be bothered to care and take matters seriously, I won’t either.

  • Also MC can use the useless Volt gun the Agency issued them on Oxford and surprise, surprise. It’s useless. Because the Agency sabotages all its human agents and in the end wants supernaturals to take over the whole organization and then the world ( but that’s just a theory). Why in the world would MC use it on his shoulder? The non-lethal weapon? This series’ aversion to effective weaponry is staggering to me. The guy breaks all security protocols! Headshot, knock him out, call for backup. Geee, MC what a wuss.

  • The Agency doesn’t quarantine MC immediately after they get powers. A potentially deadly new ability and MC is not only allowed to walk around wherever they want, they are also required/mandated to finish their training with other agents. As far as they know, MC could be spreading whatever bug Lisa is using to siphon ppl lifeforce away or be a walking timebomb or Lisa can see and hear everything MC can. What the hell Agency? Don’t you have any contingency for situations like this? Last book MC was under house arrest because of a bird man and now against a god they throw all caution out the window.

  • Rebeca’s outburst felt so forced to me. Seems like a deliberate attempt to humanize her and make us like her, but that would suggest the author reads the forum and is aware of criticisms of their work but judging from the rest this demo, that is not the case. Anyway, she has the audacity to put any blame on UB when she and the Agency are the ones responsible. B1 if not for her insistence to keep MC in the dark, Murphy would have been caught on day one and the kid would not have died (yeah I will never let that go). B2 the Agency failed to notice a plague following a circus troupe across the whole country. Unless, of course, they just spawned next to Wayheaven because the main character is there, B3 well, we all know about B3. And here again, because of the Agency’s neglect, Otis can free Lisa. Sorry Becky, but Tiffany from HR would like to talk to you, apparently, you’re emotionally unstable.

  • Now Lisa. Is this really a point for a villain of the week format? In the middle of a series? With all the setups for villains behind the scenes and organizations just to make them non-existent by separating the whole town? Also, what’s with the lightning? Electricity is totally different thing than solar energy or radiation, and that hallucination and lifeforce sucking to boot? What is this power set?? Also, also, it’s narratively impossible, inconceivable even, for MC to be interested in Lisa. This is the same MC who was demanded by the plot of B3 to have a mental breakdown because they couldn’t rescue one woman from potential slavery. There is no way that MC would want to be romantically involved with an unapologetic murderer. Not to mention that readers and people, in general, don’t find killers with no remorse attractive. There was a sliver of possibility when I thought Lisa was imprisoned unjustly because other supernaturals from the Agency wanted to eliminate all possible future threats to their rule including the innocents. There was potential with a supposedly all-powerful and evil creature being set free only to be revealed to have been wronged by the Agency and not only not be evil, but have an understandable reason for fighting against the Agency. But instead, we got oh boy, here I go killing again. How else will I replenish my power in order to make a worldwide solar storm apocalypse and rebuild the world in my image because I want to? But alas, anything else would smear the image of the infallible Agency everyone is spreading (falsely).

  • Random Power-Hungry Simp appeared. I hate this guy. For everything he is and for what he could have been. The one guy in charge of this assignment. The sole expert of this entity should know its powers, methods, history, and goals. He must have known Lisa went on a crazy killing spree and he still decides to release them and cause Armageddon, because what? He wanted to upgrade from witch to wizard? Really? And this is the dude who was supposed to be an agent for a century at least, one would think he would be more responsible. And he said he liked the Agency and all his time with them but still would risk the death and destruction of his friends and colleagues for a power boost.

  • Also Oscar was doing his job for centuries? So witches are immortal now? Is there any supernatural who does not have super healing, super senses, and super immortality? However many species are introduced they all blend together, there is nearly no difference between them.

How I would fix it

Now, what if Orbit was not some random loser? The plot seems to forget but there is a RAT in the Agency. Why not use that premise? Let’s assume Opeck is the Rat for the Rogues or one of many. They decide that since they failed to capture MC and extract their blood, they will instead trick them so that they can use it on-site. Now Oreal knows of Lisa who was imprisoned by the Agency for no reason and proposes to use MC’s blood to release them and recruit them for the Rogues. Using the opportunity created by Lisa’s weakening prison and MC’s training, Ogbob gathers a team of trusted Agents ( who are also rats) and together with the MC goes to the site. They all ambush MC take blood and release Lisa. But Lisa ain’t evil and doesn’t want to align herself with Rogues. A fight ensues, and rats die except Oblong, who manages to escape. Now MC wants Lisa to surrender and she goes “I’m not evil so I won’t kill you, but the Agency is evil so you’re my enemy” and flies away. The rest of the plot is about Lisa trying to take down the Agency (without killing everyone willy-nilly) while Rogues trying to subdue Lisa and force her to work for them and dominate the world, and in the middle of things is MC trying to either imprison Lisa again or convince her that Agency is good now (it’s not) and she should forgive the past, all the while fighting off Rogues. The whole thing ends in the obligatory Masked Ball confrontation. Also, Obruh is alive and throughout the story, we learn from him about the Agency’s dark secrets and how through centuries of working for them he became disillusioned about them and wanted to free Lisa not to selfishly gain power, and not even for the Rogues but because it was the right thing to do. Also, he gets the girl in the end, and they ride off into the sunset, away from politics to do good upon the world.
Happy ending. Curtain falls. Audience claps.
That way we use the previous setups, make new characters matter beyond a quirky glorified cameo, and the villains are somewhat sympathetic, have actual character and real motivation instead of I want mohneyyy or ai wah pawahhhhhhhh!

I will say one thing I liked was that UB gets a different opening scene for every member. That was nice.

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After the ending in the last book, this should be the one that wraps it all up, but no, the big reveal is a big yawn. I know Mischa is revealing tidbits to her paid followers that may or may not end up in a book or even be relevant, but its getting harder and harder to follow her patreon let alone think about donating money to the cause of dragging out this series to 7 books.

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I think I found the right words to describe why I don’t like how heavy handed Reb’s scenes about loving the MC are.

Reb loves the MC, but I never doubted she loved them. The issue is years of absence doesn’t just resolve itself; she’s not entitled to forgiveness by loving the MC really hard.

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I think the problem with Rebecca lies in the way she talks about being an absentee parent, rather than her being that. It’s pretty normal for single parents to struggle keeping up with their child, when they have no help and y’know have to work to keep the boat afloat, but something about those paragraphs about her saying something something “I wasn’t there but I always cared, I gifted you stuff” etc etc you see in book 3 (iirc) irked me on a personal level?
It felt very cheap and kinda guilt-trippy (and before anyone jumps me, I know what it means to grow up with a single parent and let me tell you I don’t hate my mother. In fact, it’s the opposite lmao :sob: goes to show absence is not the issue. I guess “attitude” (can’t think of a better term on the go) is.
Which is why her outburst did nothing for me, because, again, asking me to care without giving me reason to feels like “you have to like her cause she’s a good character actually”

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Rebecca’s problem (to me) is her complete inability to commit to a relationship with the Detective. She won’t consistently be a mother, nor a friend, nor even a cordial colleague to the Detective. Everything about her relationship with the Detective is on her own terms. There’s “love”, sure, in the sense that she doesn’t want bad things to happen to the Detective, but there’s no intimacy or trust. The second she feels uncomfortable, she puts up a wall, regardless of how that might make the Detective feel.

If this were intentional, this could be good characterization. However, the way that the text goes out of its way to try and make the reader like and sympathize with Rebecca makes me think that the author feels like she misstepped and is trying to do damage control.

I dislike Rebecca as a person, and her usage as a character is starting to grate on me. But if later plot beats let the Detective take a stand and say “I don’t want you to be part of my life,” and the narrative and Unit Bravo don’t try to browbeat the reader for it, I’ll eat my share of crow. That would mean the author is taking ownership of how Rebecca has been written so far.

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A big problem with Rebecca is that this wasn’t what happened. After Rook died she quit the council to have more free time, but then threw herself into work and became the most involved team handler in the history of histories. Rebecca’s difficulty is that she’s not cut out for motherhood and she doesn’t know how to be one. And that’d be fine. Not everyone is cut out for parenthood. It’s fine. Be you.

The problem is that she’s insisting she wants to be in a cordial bonding relationship now and then immediately does absolutely the opposite at every single opportunity. She constantly lies with no payoff. She never actually initiates any bonding time (when have you ever heard her invite you to dinner to just talk or something?), and when the Detective does she just does nothing and buggers off at the first possible opportunity.

Like, maybe, MAYBE Rebecca sort of cares, but she keeps trying to show that she cares in the socially-determined-ways-to-show-a-mother-cares and she’s totally unsuited for that.

It’s sort of the M path problem in reverse: M cares, but because they never want to do the things that are socially-determined-ways-that-couples-in-a-relationship-act* (and also they have the social skills of a rabid wolverine with toothache), their brain returns the “not in a relationship” result.

And because Sera’s brain apparently also runs on tropes, you get answers to asks saying “oh, obviously M is not in love yet and you’re not in a relationship”.

*like, can you imagine M on the N or F date scenes?

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