WALL - scifi/cyberpunk WIP, chapter one live

Did you get some ideas from frost punk the first couple pages give off that vibe nothing wrong with it just curious

oh wow LOL, believe it or not I’d actually never heard of it before! But I feel like that definitely is kind of the vibe I was going for so I guess I can add that to my mental “sources of inspiration” catalogue

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Thanks for the post with reference pics as I’d not heard of some of those before, very cool and informative :+1:

This was awesome! I am very into your story :smile:, holly hell am I glad I checked out the link @malinryden shared on fallenhero forum.
The problem is with save slots, it allows you to save your game but does not load it afterwards.

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I have read your work, and it looks very good and the plot looks interesting. :ok_hand::+1:


I’ve seen two little mistakes:

  1. When I can choose to be alone or have Ozzy’s company, if I chose Ozzy as a GIRL, it says "…his way back down the ladder. " It should be “her”

  2. In the next page the word “She” has two “e” (Shee)
    *She

For the rest, everything is okay, I like how you write :ok_hand::ok_hand::ok_hand: looking for your future updates.

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Aah, I’ve played the demo, and I’m actually extremely conflicted in a strange way.
I’ve really liked the setting and the overall story, but well, I have a major issue that influenced the entire experience.
Someone already mentionned it I believe, but when you start the game, it’s really confusing to have to select so quickly if you sympathize with the rebels or not, considering you don’t know anything about keepers or rebels. Honestly, I don’t even know if I’d put that choice so early, considering you’re so clueless about the entire setting at the beginning. I mean, you could explain what keepers are prior to that, but I feel like it’s too early for such a choice anyway.
I don’t mind games with hectic starts that put you right into the action, but it’s hard to make allegiance choices at that point. It’s better if it sticks to things like how would you hide or act or things like that.

Still on that specific choice, I admit I feel a bit unconfortable about the fact that the only choice that doesn’t make you more or less side with the rebels is one that rises your self interest stat. I know it’s hard to avoid considering the background that seems set into stone for the MC, but well, it bothers me a bit. It makes me feel like the game is saying “either you’re against the authorities, or you’re a self-centered jerk” - something like that. Maybe not as harsh, but I think you get what I mean.

It kind of continues when you meet Kaori and Ozzy, and the way they act with your character. I feel like it should be nice if you were allowed to play a character who wanted that new life and who’s still a good guy, and without their former friends being awful about the whole thing. Sure, they’re upset and I get it, but I don’t know, it felt really extreme.

Though, I think the issue REALLY comes from the fact at the point in the game where all of this happens, you’re still clueless about what or who the keepers are, exactly, so you don’t inherently feel any animosity towards them. All the while it’s very easy to get very sour with Kaori and Ozzy who antagonize your character so strongly about something you don’t really know about. They don’t really the best first impression on the player.
Like, there’s Ozzy literally demanding an apology while you’re like “dude, I don’t even know WHY are you so angry about!”. It’s really hard to answer anything else than “I don’t owe you an apology” because of how he acts. And I feel like his actions may be totally justified, but I don’t have any means to know, so I just dislike him. Mind that I can like mean characters just fine, but it feels like he SHOULDN’T be a mean character, and I just missed the entire story and come right into an argument about a faction I don’t know about and why the MC joined them.
I think that’s it - you can’t really understand the scope of what your character did and how the others percieve it, and it’s just gratuitous hostility towards someone who was their friend and who basically wanted to succeed in life of keep his literal life or something.

But like I said, I really don’t want to be too harsh or anything. Maybe I’m weirdly over-sensitive on the topic or something. I still like the setting and story and I hope I’ll be able to like the characters later. It’s just hard at this point considering everything I said. I hope my feedback still helps despite my conflicted opinion.

Aside from things related to story or choices, it would be nice if the stats page showed some sort of description of how the MC looks, their gender and so on. It’s a common thing, and it helps remember or - if you have more than one MC - keep track of things.

On another note, as weird as it may sound, I want to thank you for allowing my character to have an artificial arm, and to allow me to select which one. Characters with their left arm being artificial (yes, specifically the left) are one of my favorite things ever.

Overall, I’m waiting to see how the story will unfold and what the updates will bring. The story has the potential to be something great, and I’m sure I’ll love it, despite my gripes.

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Hey there! I actually really appreciate the thoroughness of this review, it gives me a lot to think about. The lack of context leading up to that initial allegiance choice has indeed been mentioned and I’m working on the best way to resolve that, but I am definitely now also giving some thought to the (admittedly unintentional) moral weight that’s being pushed on certain choices, and I’ll have to give some thought to that and see if maybe I need to reconsider the specific stats I’m tracking. (Related, I am definitely still trying to figure out how I want to format the stat page as a whole, but getting the character’s physical description in there is for sure on the to-do list.)

I am glad that you still seem interested in the story in spite of these issues, thank you!

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No problem!
I understand making these games is difficult - I’m working on a visual novel myself, and while that kind of games isn’t AS choice-heavy as the one your working in, it’s still a lot of things to keep track of. That’s why, with such an early WIP, I can get past these things and look at the bigger picture.
As I said, all my issues probably stem from the fact I don’t know anything about the political and social situation there. The moral weight wouldn’t necessarily be an issue if it was established in a clear way for the player that the keepers are REALLY bad or if we knew the exact motivations of the MC. Like… if the keepers are like high nobility with all the powers in their hands and not really caring about other people, it wouldn’t be the same as if they were tyrants who mass killed people for their enjoyment or brainwashed them. Sure, none of the options are good, but there’s a world in between the two.
In a similar fashion, we don’t know what made the MC join them in the first place. The choice that impacted me about that was when talking to Ozzy, at some point you can select “Well, it was either that or die.” - when picking that, I thought it was literally that, for a reason unknown for now, and it made me really interested. But with the dialogue after selecting it, I’m not sure anymore if it’s as serious or if the MC is simply saying he was truly stagnating and had to move on. In a similar fashion about the moral weight of following the keepers depending of how bad they are, there’s also the moral weight of why the MC did that. If it was because he wanted to live a carefree and easy life, it’s not the same at all as if he did this because he would have been condemned to literally die otherwise.

That’s why, while I like stories that start with a bang, it may cause issues with the players not knowing what they’re getting into.

If I were to retell my experience of the story, it would be something along the lines of - MC was having a hard time with his old life, maybe he was even in danger of losing said life. So by some more or less legal means, he managed to make his way to the upper class sector and work for the keepers, though he had to abandon his old friends for that. Said friends were extremely mad and didn’t understand how important the situation was for the MC. After a year, the MC gets threatened with a gun to his head by some awful manipulative people who want to steal from his employers, and he’s forced to let them in. When some keepers came, he immediately tried to stop the thieves, but in the chaos the keepers weren’t sure he wasn’t their willing accomplice, and he got scared and ran, now unfairly accused of being a rebel. He sought his old friends, only to have them tell him they told him it couldn’t work because keepers were jerks and his place wasn’t with them, and they were awful with him, demanding excuses for something he made possibly in order to literally survive.

Honestly, as it is, it IS an interesting plot none the less haha! But it makes the rebels and the MCs old friends look like the awful people, while the keepers are regular “masters” in a classist system - not always nice or accepting, but eh, normal. That makes for a… well… a story that’s, I think, way more somber than intended, I guess XD - seems like MC was trying really hard to survive somehow, only to get threatened, wrongly accused, and rejected by people who didn’t bother trying to truly understand his issues. Again, very interesting plot, albeit it makes me unconfortable with how unfair it is.

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Life is unfair and being accused of something you didn’t do is unfortunately normal . I like it being somber. Not everything has to be toned down because that’s not how you envision your MC. Although I agree probably give more information about the rebels and the faction and explain the goals or morals they want to achieve and choose how the MC feels about it. The friends part should be explain why they think they deserve an apology whether it’s personal or professional.@Konoi @charlie

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As someone who has been using limited information a LOT in my games (and have gotten criticism for it, which is legit, it is a storytelling choice not everyone agrees with) I think the thing to consider here is this:

Should the choice to side with the Rebels be a choice at all? Should you have a choice what to feel about the Keepers?

It all depends on where the story is going, and I am writing this warning because it is VERY easy to want to have very divergent choices at the start of a game when you’re writing one for the first time. However, sometimes the story you want to write can’t sustain those choices, so you are forced to push people who made the ‘wrong’ choice for the story into the same storyline as the people who picked the ‘right’ choices, which might lead to animosity and accusations of railroading.

Sometimes it is better to take a long, hard look at the story and take some choices away from the players at the start, and then instead give them choices how to feel about them.

Of course I have no clue if that is the case here, since I don’t know where the story is headed, or how important these actions/reactions will be in the future.

All I can say is for my path, the “infiltrated the keepers to do a heist, and then the rebels came and messed up my timing”, all the reactions and dialog felt smooth and cool. But playing the “I just wanted a better life and a good job and tried my best to stop people and everything went to shit” does paint your friends with a lot darker brush with the information we have.

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@malinryden I agree with you here - from my perspective, I wouldn’t mind being actually forced by the story to either side with the keepers, have infiltrated them or fully side with the rebels. But getting an opinion choice here. I feel affected by it because it’s a choice in the dark that leads to very strong opinions from the characters against my character, without me considering they did anything bad. Not to mention, it’s a bit different to be clueless to what the hell is going on currently in a game, and not knowing a critical information about the world itself that the MC and everyone around knows, and that obviously affects the story.
Though, obviously I’m as ignorant about the story as you are, but I don’t think this choice means you actually get to fully support either rebels or keepers. I feel like in the end you WILL be forced down the rebel path, and I’m fine with that. It feels like flavor or background choice to determine what the MC thinks about that and his starting position. It’s more about adding some variation to these discusions depending on the motivation the main character has. In your games I never felt like the reactions to my character were unwarranted, even when I was fumbling in the dark not knowing what the story behind the events was. But that’s because I always had enough information about the world (or you gave the illusion I had) for me to make an informed choice and live with it.

@Semi-Lovable Haha, oh but I agree about the fact it shouldn’t necessarily be toned down! It makes me unconfortable because I’m so confused about WHY they are so mad because of the total lack of explanations. If I knew more about the keepers or general situation, or if the friends explained a bit better what they feel, it would be totally fine for me if it stayed that way, because it would feel like consequences for at least some of my choices.
I commented the tone is maybe darker than intended with this route because of how the game is advertised. I play games way darker and more unfair than that, so I don’t mind it per se.

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Oh okay lol I was kinda confused and miffed like “Really someone can’t handle even this much darkness/somber ness”:joy:. But yeah I agree that little bit of explanations about what each one represents and the goals. Meanwhile further on unravel the twisted layers of both of them. Basically either choosing the lesser of two evils or staying neutral and just have normal of life as possible.@Konoi

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Yeah I absolutely get where you guys are coming from! I think it’s entirely possible it’s just as much a symptom of this being a very small preview of a much larger world, and me maybe making not a great calculation about what information does and doesn’t need to be offered up right at the beginning.

My intent had always been that Kaori and Ozzy would have their own strongly held opinions that may or may not be a “fair” reflection of the situation, but @Konoi and @Semi-Lovable I think you’re both angling at the same thing, there’s not enough information to know if you’re just catching flak for doing something they don’t personally like, or if you actually made a genuinely scummy move and they’re right to be upset. Neither scenario is necessarily “bad” in and of itself but the internal tone needs to be clarified.

@malinryden that is a really good point as well, especially considering that by necessity every path through the flashback ends the same way anyway :thinking: That may actually be the more workable approach, more of a “these are the choices that got you up to this point, how do you feel about that? What will you change going forward?”

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Well, I have full confidence you’ll work it around in one way or another!
Can’t wait for the next update, whenever that’ll be!

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I also have full confidence! Also, the beginning of a story will often be the one rewritten the most times :).

Also, a good way of providing background on keepers and how they are seen might be to see them interact with the world during that first flight/sneaking around. That way you get to see how other people see them and what role they have in the world. Same with the rebels, maybe in the way people talk about them.

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