The War for the West [Releasing Nov 14]

[AbelGijon]

I dont really think that Noyedas killed MC father

[GuardsmanTheMad]

@AbelGijon the dude outright confesses it

[FutbolDude21586]

Where? I accused him to his face and he denied it.

[GuardsmanTheMad]

I can’t remember because I used cheats D̶o̶n̶’̶t̶ ̶j̶u̶d̶g̶e̶ ̶m̶e̶ but after using every dialogue option he eventually confessed, he says because your father would ruin his plans

[FutbolDude21586]

Ah, that’s the secret. LOL Thanks for the info.

[Arcane_warrior]

It felt so good to kill Noyedas plus just wondering but do the mercenaries betray you no matter what or is there away to avoid that from happening.

[TropicRayder]

Also how do you survive the castle siege and protect the other city?

[castellan]

@AbelGijon

I dont really think that Noyedas killed MC father

@FutbolDude21586

Where? I accused him to his face and he denied it.

So here’s what Noyedas says when we accuse him using the dialogue “I know it was you but don’t know why you have him killed. Was he standing in your way” Not these exact words but you get the gist.
To which Noyedas says:
For military father He would have burned crops, denied me the villages before surredering to me. I had to kill him

For kind father He would rather serve Mienstrel dogs before seeing harm fall on his subjects. I had to kill him

Depending on father’s background his reasoning changes.
Also note that the exact words he uses may vary.

@Arcane_warrior

is there away to avoid that from happening.

Only way to truly dissuade them from betraying you is to have a female MC & promise her hand in marriage to Ullus Goldentooth the mercenary captain
Other wise the best you can hope is to beef up your army through recruitment. Choose backgrounds at start that gives you larger army & larger recruitment numbers later for that
Eg: Choose kind father. That gives you population boost through a hold court event.
Re roll at start till you have 1300+ army at start with kind father.
By doing this what will happen is that the mercenaries will lose the stomach for fight seeing that your guys are beating the sh*t out of Noyedas & his lackeys. So their participation in battle becomes passive rather active.

Now I do remember when Sielcner forces occupied my province when my MC called out the entire army to deal with Bolgan rebels.
Then the mercenary captain genuinely agrees to join me & doesn’t betray me to retake the province.
It might have been just a bug though.

@TropicRayder

how do you survive the castle siege

Build up a large army through troop recruitment, character background to give you bigger army at start, recruit people just before the battler when the option presents itself… See the steps mentioned above. In my playthroughs I even remeber having 5000+ soldiers. Using cheat menu to delay Sielcner invasion helps. Though it’s not necessary. But I think 3000 troops would be enough if you manage to have them at the start to battle.
You can marry Lord Dullacs daughter Danna & call upon them come to your aid. Which they do when the battle is at it’s thickest.

@TropicRayder

protect the other city

I’m assuming you are talking about King’s end.
Yeah I don’t think we can save it.
See if you decide to stay back in Castle to defend it & send half your forces to defend that town, it still falls to Sielcner forces.
Lord Noyedas can just take it first then come for you. Though I may be worng & others here can pitch in to offer correction.

[Crow]

@castellan

I’m assuming you are talking about King’s end.
Yeah I don’t think we can save it.
See if you decide to stay back in Castle to defend it & send half your forces to defend that town, it still falls to Sielcner forces.
Lord Noyedas can just take it first then come for you. Though I may be worng & others here can pitch in to offer correction.

I think to save it you at least need to send 500+ of your troops but i think the lord dies anyway.

[MahatmaDagon]

@Norilinde

I would like the opportunity for the MC to call out Prince Lodka for his rudeness. Having been welcomed as a guest, Prince Lodka insults not just Sielccia which would not bother my MC, but Lodka insults all of the south including the MC’s land and Lodka gives his insult while complaining about discourtesy.

Someone else told me the other day that they got angry with that same remark from Lodka, and I was initially surprised. I personally see it as the man venting his frustrations, not exactly trying to offend(but perhaps succeeding in doing so).

Given that, I think it would be fitting (and good for the roleplay) to grant the player the option to react to this in some ways.

This might also be a good time to directly ask Lodka about the truth of whether northern heirs are sent to scout lands they intend to someday conquer. I do actually like Prince Lodka so my MC would attempt to ask politely. If my MC is female, then Lodka would be my MC’s preferred choice of spouse from the men willing to discuss marriage even if it meant only seeing each other every few months.

That was supposed to just be a flavor text for people with high knowledge, but it does make sense that the player who is aware of this might want to question Lodka. There’s little point on letting the MC be suspicious of something without providing some sort of confrontation.

I also like the idea that you should be able to choose your approach when questioning him about it. I think it can play out with the man’s nature, getting him angry or dismissive depending on how you do it.

I’m also wrapping up the lovers/bastards segment by the end of the game, and one of the choices is related to the continuance of Lodka’s relationship with you. While there can be no marriage between the two of you, there’s the possibility to keep seeing him, either behind your husband’s back or by not having one. This eventually results in Lodka fathering your heir, and then there are some choices regarding what is to be done with the child.

Dannel honestly seems rather pathetic and it would be extremely rude to actually pick the option during the date with Dannel that a female MC had married the wrong brother, but rudeness aside it would be accurate. Danna’s opinion of Dannel is certainly not flattering either.

Hey, some people think Dannel is cute! XD

@Norilinde

The epilogue with marriage to Ullus makes it sound as though things work out well, but I also cannot forget or FORGIVE Ullus betraying the MC at the final battle under certain conditions. I realize the MC would have no way of knowing that for certain, but I feel that Ullus radiates a lack of trustworthiness though he does not give that impression as strongly as Lanfrey which is one reason why my MC would never share the MC’s heritage with Lanfrey.

I can respect that, I would only trust those two to be themselves.

Ullus remains loyal to you if you promise him with marriage because you’re offering him something that Noyedas can’t and that he deeply desires. A wife AND a title. I mean to give players with high Social the possibility of keeping him loyal without that as well, though.

@Norilinde

That said, of the two current marriage options for female MCs, I definitely prefer Ullus and he definitely needs a wedding night scene. A date with him would be nice even if it is touring the army camps or siegeworks. He probably would not mind that kind of date and a high combat MC might also enjoy such a date.

I do think there could be some fleshing out of Ullus and his mercenaries before the battle. Perhaps such “date” could be an opportunity to do that, and I do like the idea of a military tour with him. I also have plans to add another male marriable RO one day.

@Norilinde

As far as ROs in general go, will an unmarried MC be able to propose marriage to lovers in the future particularly if there is already a child either born or on the way for the couple?

Lovers are definitely considered when reaching the ending of the game, and they do provide you with a way to have an heir even if you aren’t married. (if you already have a child, then there are some interesting dynamics)

I was considering the notion that the player might want to marry them by the end of the game the other day, and I think people are going to have some surprises regarding that.

(All of that should be in the next update, whenever I manage to upload it. It shouldn’t take long)

@Norilinde

My female MC would have strongly considered proposing marriage to Sir Vradnir WERE HE NOT MARRIED. If I recall correctly, I was looking at the source code for a scene I had never actually reached and Vradnir mentions being married and if that is the case then it should be mentioned in his profile in the characters tab. If he is married, then my opinion of him falls for him rarely if ever mentioning it when the MC gets flirtatious.

I agree. I always pictured him as a married man with a family in my head, but I don’t think I gave the player that information anywhere else until that specific interaction, which already happens “too late”. I’ll update his character description with such information.

@Norilinde

I like Jenneth’s character and I wish there were a way for the MC to admit to feelings for her without having to surrender to Noyedas which is something my female MCs would die before doing since surrendering to Noyedas means bearing his child for a female MC. It is not as bad in my opinion for a male MC but it is kind of odd that the MC having the courage to fight Noyedas means lacking the courage to confess feelings for someone the MC likes.

I might be wrong, but I think you can ally yourself with Noyedas without necessarily marrying him if you are a woman. If it isn’t that way already, I think it should be.

Either way, I was initially going to let that interaction with Jenneth be the only one, kind of a “secret encounter”, but I think as far as NPCs go she’s the most wanted by players for a romance scene, and given the way I’m handling lovers by the end of the game, I think it can only improve by letting the player have a more approachable opportunity to “seduce” her.

@Norilinde

When we get a new batch of recruits, the text claims that money is deducted, but so far as I can tell, no money is actually deducted for recruits. If that changes, that will mean the early months will be even harder financially without loans.

I’ll check this out, probably some bug.

Not that long ago I raised the amount of money the player can get from taxes a lot, and then reduced it a bit. I still don’t know how balanced it is.

@Norilinde

On the subject of loans, I think there need to be amounts offered in between 1000 and 5000 aurens.

That should be easy to do. To be honest, I think all the values will be tweaked eventually.

@Norilinde

Furthermore, the actual repayment when it happens for most amounts only charges the MC the amount of the loan but does not include the interest. For example, the repayment for a 5000 auren loan was supposed to be 6000 aurens but only 5000 aurens are deducted. It should also be possible to take out loans more than once. I find my MC ends up taking out a 5000 auren loan as that covers pretty much every conceivable typical expense until revenue catches up with initial costs. If I try taking out the smallest loan possible and accidentally have the treasury go even slightly negative, then there needs to be a way to either take a new loan or expand an existing one.

I’ll check this, but I do agree that the player should be able to take another loan after paying the first one.

@Norilinde

I know it may not be intended to remain that way in the long run, but I do like the idea of simply ignoring Noyedas’s demand for a meeting as long as possible. It is a perfectly valid tactic for a MC that knows an invasion is coming to simply leave the enemy waiting in the hopes of an easy victory while the MC continues to prepare for war. What I think should happen is that Noyedas should eventually tire of waiting and invade. The fact that outright ignoring Noyedas is also an insult would please my MCs immensely.

I think that’s the way it should go as well. He appears and, if you don’t go meet him, he starts moving in X days. I’ll just have to make sure the next segment considers that when you’re preparing yourself for war.

@Norilinde

I have never seen the assassination attempt succeed so please forgive me if it is actually possible for it to succeed under the right conditions. If it currently can never succeed, then the option to spend money to attempt it would be an unquestionably bad choice. I think there needs to be a way for the attempt to succeed. I also think there should be a way to devote more money to the attempt and to start the attempt earlier. My MC would have gladly spent thousands of aurens to kill Noyedas with my MC’s only regret being missing the chance to do it personally. I think it would be perfectly reasonable to start the attempt the moment the MC finds out that Noyedas killed the MC’s father. On a less personal but still pragmatic note, it would also be reasonable to begin the attempt the moment the MC suspects Sielcner is planning an invasion.

There are a few reasons as to why trying to assassinate Lord Noyedas is never going to succeed. Some are inherent to the plot, others are more tied to the design of the game.

1 - His Warmonk is very suspicious and handles his personal safety.
2 - He has access to prophecies, somehow. Some of those prophecies might warn him of assassination attempts. Or they might just serve the purpose of keeping him paranoid.
3 - There are very important people, with a very efficient network of spies, looking out for him.
4 - There is someone within your court who wants this conflict to happen, precisely because they want you to win it. Noyedas dying too early will ruin this person’s plans. (this can be learned later)
5 - I’m usually all in for different ways of solving a problem in a game, but just paying to assassinate him feels as a cheap way to solve the problem. Yet I think it is a possibly that should at least be considered, so that’s why I put it there. It is a bit of a “catch 22” situation, but that’s the best that I could come up with at the time. I’m not that happy with it either.

About “doing stuff” against him as soon as you suspect him/learns that he was behind your father’s assassination(allegedly, at that point of the game), I do plan to add a series of options that could eventually delay the invasion in a few days regarding sabotage and preparation.

@Norilinde

On the subject of knowing about the Sielcner invasion, I think the wandering performers trying to paint Noyedas as a descendant of the last Sielc king should also count as a warning sign of the coming Sielcner invasion.

Yep, although I think that depends on the player noticing it. I don’t know if most people get that vibe from this event.

@Norilinde

The game seems to treat a number of the espionage options as though they only rely on the Social skill.

Your character’s stats are inherent to its personal capabilities, not the ones of your province or “rule”. When it is something that you aren’t concluding/perceiving by yourself or doing alone, your counselors often step in and present you with choices and suggestions that aren’t locked by any stat. I don’t think there are “espionage options” which you can’t pick for the lack of a stat, unless you’re referring to something else.

@Norilinde

However, Kellek in Dullis is spymaster and appears to use the Lore skill more.

Is he really the Spymaster, though?

Sartham is the Spymaster for Boglan, although he “officially” is the Treasurer. Kellek is the Scholar for Dullis, but people suspect he is the one who handles the spies and the “wetworks”, mostly because he is very good with potions and poison.

But perhaps it is on someone’s best interests that people think that Kellek is the one responsible for all the shady stuff in the province? I would argue that Dullis has the best spy network of all the western provinces as well.

Also, different courts might have different dynamics to them, not necessarily following the same structure as the MC’s one, although the western courts are fairly similar for the most part.

There will be more on all of that by the last scene of the game, when I manage to finish it.

@Norilinde

My MCs can’t dance and can’t flirt but know enough lore to make poisons or explosives and have probably read more about historical intrigue than anyone else so their Lore skill really should unlock more espionage options.

I do have to make some abstractions and generalization when dealing with just 3 stats, but Social isn’t just about flirting or dancing. I would argue there is a misconception of what Social trully does in the game.

Social relates to things like Seduction, Charisma, Persuasion, Empathy, Diplomacy, Gossip and Negotiation. It kinda is your “emotional intelligence” as well.

Knowledge relates to things like History, Science, Strategy, Religion, and Lore(it was the original name of the stat). It kinda is your “formal education” as well.

I could trace a parallel using the distinctions between Explicit and Tacit knowledges, The stat “Knowledge” being related to Explicit while the stat “Social” being related to Tacit.

It might be a bit confusing, but what I’m trying to say is that both stats are related to forms of knowledge, yet each deals with different areas. I understand it might be misleading, and there should be an explanation about that in the Options menu.

Sometimes Social and Knowledge do overlap, and when I perceive that happening I multi-check it. There are some options which you can unlock by having Social OR Knowledge, and one or two which you might need both. If anyone sees a particular option in which there can be a case for it testing more than one stat(or that should be changed), I’m open to suggestions.

@Norilinde

The scene where the MC confronts Meybuk about the MC’s mother’s death needs to also have a Lore option to unlock suspecting Meybuk. Someone sufficiently well-read would suspect that prophecies could be real and that Meybuk would have known that. It is just not acceptable in my opinion that a MC that focuses on Lore and Combat must let Meybuk get away with having caused the MC’s mother’s death.

Its been a while since I wrote that scene, so I can’t tell for sure, but I don’t know if the information you get leaves you much room to suspect Meybuk. I’ll review it when I have the opportunity and that that into consideration, but the original intention was to leave that scene almost a secret, so that’s why I just added a check that only people with high Social might question him further.

@Norilinde

Also, it does not take someone skilled at dancing or flirting to put two and two together and note the timing of the prisoner arrested in the castle shortly before the MC’s father fell ill or to note that the prisoner can’t even describe his profession or purpose in the castle without backtracking.

About this specific point, you don’t need Social to discover that. There are two ways to confront the character, one is by noticing the incoherences in his speech(which doesn’t test any stat), the other is by having enough Social to see that he is lying, Both should lead to the same outcome.

And you are correct in arguing that it is weird that the MC’s father fell ill and the timing the man was arrested. What is weirder still is no one suspected your father had been assassinated before, and everyone just assumed it was of natural causes.

There’ll be an explanation for that in one of the epilogues which should wrap things up.

@Norilinde

@MahatmaDagon There needs to be a greater variety of outcomes for the married epilogues and for the event in the event pool where the MC’s spouse convinces the MC to spend the day “producing an heir”. In Dannel’s case for example, a MC may choose to reject having sex with Dannel on the wedding night and on date night a MC can openly express regret for having married Dannel. In spite of that, the MC always agrees to spend the day “producing an heir” and always ends up pregnant in a “loving” marriage. The MCs should have the choice to refuse during the “produce an heir” event and the epilogue should reflect the actual relationship between the MC and the spouse. Furthermore, the MCs should have the choice of whether or not to ingest silphium or whatever other herbs are used by the Iron Maidens to avoid pregnancy. A MC that only agreed to a marriage for the sake of a military or commercial alliance does not necessarily have any desire or intention of having a child with the spouse.

I agree. I think the hard part was setting the structure, and that I now can add the variation depending on it being a good or a bad marriage. This means not forcing sexual interactions on the player as well.

@Norilinde

Additionally, while it may be society’s goal for the MC to continue the MC’s bloodline, that is not necessarily the MC’s goal and some MCs may specifically intend to never have children and to not continue the MC’s house. Some MCs may intend to never marry at all for that matter and society’s wishes be damned.

You can definitely end the game without a heir or without ever getting married. I think there is already one ending which considers that it was “perhaps for the best” that your lineage ended with you.

@Norilinde

@MahatmaDagon I would also suggest that all of the spouse dates should give the MC the choice to mention the MC’s mother’s heritage if known. If I recall correctly, only the dates for Danna and Petka give the choice to mention it. That would be a particularly relevant conversation topic when dates get to the topic of honesty between spouses such as on Wyneva’s date. I would also like the option on Wyneva’s date to mention if the MC has unlocked the Sight since Wyneva seems more likely than the other spouses to understand the MC and not simply assume the MC is crazy or lying.

I do need to expand the options with the remaining wives, particularly about such revelations. And I agree Wyneva would probably be the most understanding one.

I will also be adding some content about the Sight, including conversation interactions and a few brief and usually hidden usages of such “power” retroactively through the game.

Anyway, I would like to thank you for your kind words, detailed feedback and suggestions. I really appreciate when people put the time and effort not only to give their opinions about the game, but also to assist in its production.

I don’t have the files on the computer I’m in right now, but I’ll be reviewing the text according to your reports. They’ll be of great help.

@Insert_username_here
@LOL_Interesting

Thanks for the reminder, although I won’t be able to remove it right now.

This segments give taxes money to the player related to the passage of time on the timeskip(considering treaties as well) and then deducts some “believable” amount that would be spent in that period. I’m still not sure if it is a good value.

No one got the bad endings related to not having money yet? I need to test if those are achievable after this last income of aurens. (there’ also an option on the cheat menu that removes your money in order to be able to easily reach those endings, at least for testing purposes)

@castellan and @random-dude-78 in particular are two people that I think might be interested in at least one of those endings.

@AbelGijon
@GuardsmanTheMad
@FutbolDude21586

About Lord Noyedas killing your father, he’ll only admit it if you learned about it beforehand, have above 40 Social, confront him about the matter and select “I never told you it was poison.” and then “I caught your spy. He confessed.”(it might not be necessarily in that order, but both options need to be selected)

[castellan]

@MahatmaDagon

cheap way to solve the problem

So we can’t assassinate Noyedas. How about the WarMonk? That dude is behind much grief that Noyedas brings to our subjects. Assassinating WarMonk would weaken Sielcner army & demoralize it.
Same can be done to First Knight of Sielccea without outright killing him. That’d demoralize the enemy army.

@MahatmaDagon

get that vibe from this event.

We do. We most certainly do.

Okay, gonna take the plunge & go for the bad ending regarding money & see where it leads.

[MahatmaDagon]

I agree regarding assassinating either the Warmonk or the First Knight. I think you might have already suggested it before, because I have an annotation regarding it.

Anyway, to help narrow things out on reaching one of the bad early endings:

You need to have 50+ Knowledge and send your spouse and your heir into hiding. Then you need to flee in the opposite direction.

Having Meybuk as the new mayor of King’s End also gives some extra exposition in case this isn’t your first time dealing with the rebels.

[Norilinde]

@MahatmaDagon

Is he really the Spymaster, though?

Sartham is the Spymaster for Boglan, although he “officially” is the Treasurer. Kellek is the Scholar for Dullis, but people suspect he is the one who handles the spies and the “wetworks”, mostly because he is very good with potions and poison.

But perhaps it is on someone’s best interests that people think that Kellek is the one responsible for all the shady stuff in the province? I would argue that Dullis has the best spy network of all the western provinces as well.

Also, different courts might have different dynamics to them, not necessarily following the same structure as the MC’s one, although the western courts are fairly similar for the most part.

There will be more on all of that by the last scene of the game, when I manage to finish it.

@MahatmaDagon It might also be interesting to have a dialogue interaction at the Dullis feast if talking to Kellek and Meybuk has been executed by the MC. Since Kellek mentions knowing Meybuk and particularly if Kellek is actually only a scholar , then Kellek may be curious as to why the MC may have chosen to execute Meybuk.

@MahatmaDagon

Anyway, I would like to thank you for your kind words, detailed feedback and suggestions. I really appreciate when people put the time and effort not only to give their opinions about the game, but also to assist in its production.

Thank you for taking the time to read my thoughts on your game and for having made such a wonderful game in the first place. I am glad my input was not too late to be helpful.

[Harroc]

I just remarked something: when making a religion, you can’t have a messiah that is not the third. I think we should have tthe otion to make a sort of “Jesus” figure.

[castellan]

First thing first, a confession.

I rarely explore the bad endings since they tend to kill, maim, disrepute my MC & such.

Having said that, I got the early bad ending where keeping my treasury in negative got my MC killed by a servant woman.
That was surprising considering I had a 100 of every stat by that point.

Now @mahatmadagon I’d strongly urge you to bring the rebel plot into the main story of the game even when treasury has plenty of Aurens.
What I read there was on whole other level. Like I was playing the version of this game only that it was on steroids.

This can be done by simply reasoning that Galver Laeshwyr was ambitious person & wanted to not pay taxes at all. Or control MCs province for his own ends..

This will make the events happening in MCs province much much more lively. Considering we will get to play another engaging story on our own homefront instead of only doing something in some other Lord’s province or the one that’s brought on by Sielcners. It will break the monotony of managing aspects of game that is bound to set in at some point of game.

Hunting down & killing Galver Laeshwyr is also something that can engage the player very strongly in the game & can end up paying off quite nicely in the form of knowledge as to who he was working with.
This can be done through spies. Now there’s your assassination that succeeds.
Other than the one that may be ordered on alleged bastard brother.

Do we need to have treasury in postive & suddenly make it go negative just before prologue to reach the bad ending you were referring to?

Also I hope the spy we authorise Jenneth to send to major ports after Emiryia delivers his report before the game ends.

[N1GHTMAR3]

I disagree about bringing the rebel plot in the main story. Hiding away such events with their own triggers will make for more playthroughs I would think.

[castellan]

I respect your opinions. I expressed what I felt playing that particular storyline. As it stands the things happening in our own province seemed to pale on comparison to the rebel plotline.

Now maybe another plot can be written that would be comparable to that plotline. It’s not as if nothing of note happens in our province. On the contrary plenty of events happen.
But they are rather disconnected or tie in to the main plot which paysoff towards the climax & epilogues of the game.

I would much rather prefer to have rebel plot play out or something that’s comparable to it which would thoroughly engage me in the game while I try to build up my army, my castle, province’s economy etc.

What I specifically like the most in that story is how we got to engage with peasants up close. Their leader was kinda awesome to be honest.
Then that merchant & his machinations kept me on the edge the whole time it was playing out.

Add to that Lanfrey & his brother butting in & spoiling Jenneths well made plans was just icing on the cake.

Why have one when we can have two equally thrilling plots that can play out in lead up to Sielcner invasion?

[N1GHTMAR3]

@castellan

Why have one when we can have two equally thrilling plots that can play out in lead up to Sielcer invasion?

Because so far I think the game’s main idea has been not to follow a narrow storyline necessarily with more emphasis on house management. If such an event can be avoided with your choices it adds more to the game’s replayability. Adding more triggers for the event to occur is a good idea but just inserting it as a plot which you can not manuever around would not work well for the management part imo.

[castellan]

@N1GHTMAR3

manuever around would not work well for the management part imo.

True that.
At least I liked how I was able to recruit 500 Militia right before my MC was sent on an appointment with the two.

Maybe it could be implemented without sacrificing management autonomy we currently enjoy.

For eg. If we were given the option to strengthen the spy network in our own province & that consequently leading to discovery of plots would be quite intresting. We can then take measures to deal with the merchant, his puppet the charismatic rebel leader before they are able to mobilize the peasants against us.

As it curently stands our MCs engagement with the nobles & peasants of his own province is not as fleshed out as it is in that rebel plotline. I quite liked that.
But that, is just my opinion.

[N1GHTMAR3]

More triggers/options is better than a straight wall of plot consisting of events you have no control over. CK2 Style.