I understand what you’re saying but you’re also just a little off base. An outside source doesn’t have to be a therapist; it can be seeking help from a family member or a close friend or going to a support group (some of which are free to attend). Even adding a line about seeing a doctor or going to a therapist when everything calms down would have been better than “Thinking happy thoughts and pretending to be alright will make your depressive thoughts disappear.” So you’re right that, with the MC’s financial situation, they couldn’t just have a therapist on speed-dial but that doesn’t mean the MC could not have reached out for help at all.
I wonder how Open Season has been doing in terms of sales?
Probably pretty good. I think a lot of people bought it despite their…hesitation because they wanted to see if their criticisms of Redemption Season were taken to heart. Others got it simply because they like the author or liked his earlier Heroes Rise and Hero Project books. I don’t think its hurting for sales. His future books might have a lower number of copies sold though.
and who is the person they could have turned to ?
from personal experience and my own background , I can tell you this : when you are used to suck it up and deal with it . It will never occure to you to go talk about it to someone . Why ? cose years and years of having to do everything on your own (which the MC did) and even if now , she has friend and a gf (weaver) . Old habit dont die during a couple of month in a competition (and meeting new peoples and making them friends). It just doesn’t happen like that .
Instead , you will find MANY reasons why you can’t talk to X or anyone for that matter . Many reasons will pop in your mind . And the circle continue .
A support group , first we have to assume there are . I always though there aren’t , considering in that scene with the cab . Usually peoples bond in support group and make freinds . In that scene , she couldn’t call anyone for a lift , because they had nobody to turn to . Therefor that tell me , something like a support group doesn’t exit for them .
Well we have our sister, Weaver, any friend we made during the show, the producers, I’m assuming a doctor is on hand for things like this so there’s them, and even online support groups and forums (if there are any in the novel like these forums I’m sure they would help). One of the problems is we don’t even get an option to talk to anyone. We are forced to just think happy thoughts and suddenly we’re all better. I get that it may be more realistic that our hero might be used to deal with stuff on his own but this is also a story about superheroes fighting for a game show. I can suspend my disbelief a bit. But I still think the main problem is numerous beta testers asked him to take out the scene, beta testers who were brought on to help make his game better and check for offensive things, and they were for the most part ignored. That’s a bit counterproductive don’t you think?
well…I wouldn’t know lol I always though beta tester , would just test the game if it work . Learn something new everyday lol .
well Jk would be perfect actually to talk to . Weaver as well , but…I though during that scene they were cut off from everyone back from the competition . So didn’t think much of it .
But then JK was going trough stuff herself , so…make me wonder .
Beta testers are generally asked, to quote:
Beta testing guidelines
[To provide] “high level” and “low level” feedback. Not mid-level feedback.
Low-level = typos and continuity errors. A continuity error is when a character’s gender flips, or someone comes back from the dead, or you run into a plotline that just doesn’t make sense (because it’s probably a coding error).
For these low-level issues, SCREENSHOTS are VERY HELPFUL. If you see a problem, take a screenshot, or copy and paste the text that is in error, and email that. Also, the “BUG” button is great; but if you use BUG, make sure to say in your email who you are, so I can give you credit for the report.
“High level” feedback has to do with things like plot, pacing, and characters. “Scene A didn’t work for me because x, y, and z,” is useful feedback. “B character was entirely unsympathetic, because u, w, and v,” is also useful feedback.
“Mid-level” feedback describes things like grammar, style, or the use of commas. As I said above, I do not want mid-level feedback.
“I had a great time and saw only a few spelling errors,” is not useful feedback. In fact, it’s the sort of thing that results in you not being given access to future betas.
Things like sensitivity checks, I’d say, fall under high-level feedback.
Miss Boss in coma, Ani Powers being unstable, that ominous code…
Ticks all the boxes don’t you think?
I won’t lie, I had high hopes for this game, as I quite enjoyed all the other Heroes Rise and Redemption Season for the most part.
I don’t think I’ve ever been so disappointed with a CoG game, it’s not the worst, but it’s certainly got the highest disparity between my expectations and what I got.
Firstly, there was the issue of the romance. I was greatly looking forward to really exploring the relationship that I had begun with Miss Boss and getting into her real character now that the facades has been shed. Neither of these things happened and MB was essentially turned into the Coma Girl trope with no development whatsoever. This would be frustrating we’re this the second game in another trilogy, but as this is possibly the last HR game (I’ve heard he might make another if the sales for versus go well or some nonsense), it’s downright infuriating and in my opinion indicative of either a lack of planning or interest for that storyline.
This ties into another problem I have with this authors work. They seem to have little to no interest in cisgendered female romance, even lesbian romanced as I enjoy. And they seem to include them just because they want to meet the quota requirement for “straight, gay, etc,” smacking you across the face of you actually take them instead of the romances they preferred.
As for the aspects regarding how the game portrays depression, the problem has been fairly well covered, but I’ll add my perspective if only to demonstrate this is a recurrent reaction.
This is the first CoG game I can say legitimately offended me, I think it might be the first game in general that actually offended me. As someone who’s dealt with depression off and on for most of my life, the way it’s portrayed is, in order as it progresses, uncomfortable, offensive, horrifyingly tone deaf, and outright insulting. It’s especially grating now, learning that they had ample warning from the betas.
I’d honestly recommend requiring the author to publish an unreserved apology, and pulling his games from sale until he does so.
Alright I’m done, back to the realm of GoI under the watchful auspices of Saint Cata.
This topic was automatically opened after 32 hours.
A small note on known and (afaik) reported bugs:
- The WarningSystem will not carry over if you load a saved file from RS
- There’s potentially been a Zombie Outbreak in Millenia City, though so far the only affected person is Jenny Yu
- There’s a possibility that you wished so hard that you kissed Miss Boss that it became reality.
Okay after enough time to collect my definite thoughts to it…I’m disappointed. Simple as that.
It’s better than RS though only after the midway through the story. And not by much. Honestly the demo is worse as the final chapters, but this may be because I didn’t like the Reality show setting to begin with and the author is not being able to sell the concept either (HR: Hero Project by now is the worst game in the series and the setting clearly had it’s part in it), so leaving that setting mostly behind was really great. Just one question…who the fuck was that producer of HP that all the characters bitched about? It’s just so weird, this character - whose name I already forgot again - was so minor and we still get like two scenes only bitching about her being totally the only one at fault for everything going wrong in the Hero Project - original and Redemption Season - what is so weird? It totally seems like an excuse to explain characters acting like assholes without accepting that people can be assholes on their fucking own and still come around to be good people?
except your name is Aaron Victon, in that case we never let down that supposed assholishness and punish all his fans with some stupid bullshit You don’t just retcon stuff like that? (Especially if fanon had much better explanations for years without throwing another cardboard character into the mix as scapegoat). What’s still negative is that this whole “yes reality shows are a great idea, despite two games demonstrating that the Heroes Rise universe can’t produce reality shows without causing a nation wide crisis” gets still uphold. I so hoped at the start of RS that we would get the chance to smash that show to never surface ever again… (BTW, this series is so annoyingly UScentric, I just headcanon that the rest of the world is still stupid, but not stupid enough to import the show concept of the HP)
More behind the read more…it’s not that long…
okay that’s a lie all in all it’s about 2500 words… but I guess it’s not really nice, kinda…
I actually agree that no influence by the stats in this case was better than how it was handled before (aka read the author’s thoughts to see which answer fits which stat), and it got at least acknowledged minimally (and I mean minimally) when you played against your character’s strengths (though I think this was a missed opportunity to not have somebody ingame lampshade it if you did so all the time:
JK: “Why did you train that stuff again? If you’re anyway not using your abilities I mean?”
MC: “Listen JK just because I trained one technique doesn’t mean I should not try out different abilities too”
JK: “Okay, but maybe not when it’s about the future of the slugging world???”
MC: “It makes me unpredictable?? Tactics or something?”
JK: ಠ_ಠ “…Whatever!” flips table
MC: “I’m so happy to see you so full of energy!!”)
So it has a bit less frustration level than HP. But completely honest main part in reading for me was the conclusion to the Jury dilemma…and gosh was this a piss poor excuse for the Lydia or Lyra or what’s-her-name shit.
We get one scene putting emphasis on a) MC breaking up and b) how much Jury had to grow for MC to accept him again and then two kisses without any actual scene of both characters talking their problems through, at least not from their POV. Nooo, we just skip this shit, we skip anything clearly showing that this was deserved or to make the whole RS dilemma in any way good again. Fuck this. Nope, my MC and Jury (because it’s Jury my character liked not Verdict) did do their growing and maturing together. No stupid shit to force the appearance of this new cardboard cutout Verdict to have another RO for new MC. Nope, I can’t and won’t accept this as canon. I also will not accept the conclusion to BM or Jenny or Prodigal btw. (Lucky didn’t even got any mention besides the standard RO scenes right? Yeah…I still hoped we would get more exposition about the ROs, but I guess risking to destroy the mostly driving on hcs visions of the characters by giving us actual canon to work with is just too much to ask for ) But specifically for Jury I will send my middle finger to the author
And here I guess I’m preaching the choir, but the way social issues get treated is…not that great. And here I want to clarify one thing: I disagree that the issues breached should not be part of a story because “politics has no place in these stories”, I vehemently disagree with that sentiment. It’s politics to exclude those topics as much as it’s politics to include them. Especially comics always had political storylines and characters even when it used to be through metaphors and coding of characters, and times thankfully changed so that marginalized groups are allowed to see themself explicitly represented, so I give OS the praise to not nope out of representation by pointing to it’s wacky metaphors for discrimination.
Unfortunately the metaphors in this case are really wacky…and the actual representation is less than stellar in it’s implementation. It’s not much more as tokenism, and in the end laying out the wacky metaphors was as it seems still more important as actual representation (what’s quite ironic, considering the game’s premise…). Also because we still don’t get much character interaction with the characters outside of JK what is pretty sad. Most of the interaction with her on the other hand is spot on. I can’t help to think that the lack in character interaction and the very hasty first half is caused by the change from three to two parts. The second half on the other hand feels actually a bit long winded…idk what did go wrong here, just that I had to force myself to continue reading at some point…
I also don’t like how focused the game is on “champions” of representation. While platforming has it’s part in activism this specific focus on figureheads just seems weirdly elitist and I can’t help but wonder if this is the reason why MC just had to be an infini hero with celebrity parentage and family .
I really wished the story wouldn’t have gone this direction, it took something away from the MC for me. And it seems also to just be here to give old and new MC something to bond over. (I btw am a bit confused why my choosing to have neoMC say that they and oldMC probably don’t have as much in common as oldMC believed was taken as the start for a rivality? Whaat?? And also very definitely from neoMC initiated and wanted? That was a fair comment, to construct any hostility from neoMC’s side out of that is so weird?? OldMC can make faults too and people can bond even without the same experience?? It’s just totally irritating )
Or it should explain Prodigal’s existence in RS and OS…well besides the foreshadowing of bringing her back. I really prayed the game wouldn’t go there but no, she is back, with a new name, even if the game still never even delivered a given name for her, but I guess the game just likes to paint Miss Artillery so completely terrible as mother based on her psychological issues that we just have to accept that Prodigal just has no “real” name. Anyway I could have lived without her…my old MC could have done without her inserting herself in their life again. Literally the whole new series could have done without the stupid family drama. It’s okay, just let this part of the story die down and think about a better reason for the MCs to meet .
Anyway I also disliked that basically the only organisation that gives and builds anything resembling a support network (at least that we get to see closer) is a literal terrorist group. That is on so many levels just wrong? The InfraCircle is a terrorist group it’s not just painted as one by external forces, we know that group killed various people and planned to killed many more. That is not good, that’s a very significant fault in worldbuilding if the only “minority rights organization” you can implement is a terrorist group.
Don’t misunderstand me there are instances that show something that suggests an existing understanding of the topics, but it all in all gets overshadowed by all the things wrong we get presented.
It also raises the question who gets to be forgiven in the Heroes Rise universe and who not? Being mass murderers or planning genocide obviously doesn’t disqualify you from redemption or getting shots at being “inspirational leaders”
but shoting one (1) person by accident disqualifies you from getting any support by your significant other it seems while trying to become a better person (Don’t tell me I’m salty I know it)
On the other side is the belittling tone with which the game reacts to players deciding to not follow the mold (or just doesn’t give any choices to criticise stuff…see the concept of Magnuspirat…literally no option to say you think it’s a bad idea). That’s a twofold problem, ingame and on a meta level. Ingame because the MC is literally part of a minority it just is not true to say that they are selfish for not wanting to engage in activism and putting a big fat aim on their back. If you are part of a minority especially a visible one you anyway have to always keep in mind if it is save for you to speak up or not, can or do you want to risk getting a high profile, or not? It gets recognized in other characters, but of course, MC is special.
And specifically the belittling tone also doesn’t work because you literally don’t educate people that way. You don’t. It’s not working. It ignores that there are people that aren’t even malicious, just really ignorant. It happens. Yeah, there are malicious people that are so deep in their mental gymnastics or just sealioning, but there are also people that just don’t know better and those you want to listen and to learn, but you don’t do that by screaming at them or punishing them in a game because they don’t have the whole context (because they literally don’t know better). This game is not educating as it already expects players to have a certain amount of knowledge considering social issues, that’s just not the level common for the majority of people yet and it punishes players for this lack in knowledge instead of explaining things, even if it’s not as strongly as in RS, it certainly is not an approach I would recommend. (I mean there was one moment when I thought the game may would get into the problem of the “slippery-slope of righteousness” too, but that moment was as fast over as it started).
I also have a bit of a grip with how US centric the game is even during the big showdown. I know it’s typical for USian comics, but come on… don’t lampshade it and then keep pretending like it’s the only country in the world. Seriously it’s an annoying trope Oh and the comment you get for showing any interest in heroes from other countries is pure gold:
Yes, how dare me to think about the rest of the world. (Again I literally just decided to ignore that part. In my head the only place the world is ending is the US and the rest of the world is chilling, because they send them right after this Victon stuff did go down in a parallel universe. That also explains why by 1 in 3 superpowered people not one superhero got caught in that Infinitum dilemma while taking a vacation in the US…literally…Honestly the whole focus on the small groups I think comes also from this tendency to advertise a certain elitism in the question “Who gets to save the world”, really is so prevalent in the narrative that I really can’t ignore it.) But we totally can include a sentence clarifying that we have people from all around the world on the villains side, no problem to have the world rescue team be completely UScentered, not at all…
And then there are all the little bits that make the representation seem like somebody was just following a checklist of buzzwords: That after five games it’s still not possible to create an aroace or bi/pan character without the game doubting your decision, the weird fetishy wording for creating a nb MC (we get very often close to fetishy stuff whenever rl identities get brought up ingame…), the fact that the author seems to confuse pan with ceterosexual (something I actually didn’t initially noticed in RS, because I assumed the game just thought my answer to the “What do you want to date next” would indicate a preference…what on it’s own is a bit ehhhh, no scrap that it’s a big EHHHHH), that what could fit the description of ceterosexual is an option to choose for cis MCs (it’s a nb exclusive orientation, because otherwise we get into the fetishy terrain again, but to the author’s excuse he seemed to be quite confused by the term pansexual, but I’m not sure it’s a strong excuse???), the whole dilemma with a MC suffering depression, that got mentioned various times in detail, how disability gets treated…It just seems like somebody was very eager to included people, but didn’t want to do the legwork or just ended up being overwhelmed by basics and then stopped. I agree with those saying it probably comes from a good place…on the other hand as it sounds there was feedback that pointed the problems out? From people that live the experiences that the game tries to work with? And it got ignored? I’m sorry, but you don’t just use the words and experiences of marginalized people for your own profit and then just ignore their voices if you mean well. You just don’t.
Like…I get people argue that we shouldn’t rip apart progressive media for making small mistakes, but this isn’t small mistakes anymore. This is plainly not doing one’s research.
And the ending…well …it ended? I guess? Okay, I really liked the big fight at the end. I really did, but only until we got to the strange esoteric part…that lead to the big bad deus ex machinaing away into the versus verse I guess. That was a pretty big led down (I already wasn’t that sold to the reveal of the mole as it seemed pretty inconsistent with some of the themes the games tried to work with, but who cares about consistency I guess). The epilogue made it even worse. I personally thought that the game got much better as soon as the single focus on the “underrepresented powereds” plotline stopped (as I didn’t have to cringe that often anymore while reading), but the conclusion to that storyline still felt terrible lackluster, because now it was just half-assed. I hated how all relationships got finished with a questionnaire without any regards to the way MC behaved. I assume it was a way to make up for the very, very few ways to define the relationships during the actual game. Also…if you romanced Miss Boss, Griffin or Star Soar, sucks to be you. No Miss Boss isn’t waking up. Not on screen. No Star Soar has no romance scene…I don’t get how we come to a number of 10 ROs?? Where are they? If we count the most minimum interactions too I think it’s: Weather, Verdict, Transfer, old MC, Miss Boss, Star Soar, Griffin (and the last three really stretch the definition of RO tbh), so I still miss three more or was that “get into the Scoundrel and Lolli action” part meant serious? uhhh how about nope?? But hey with those two we just need to find the last RO… Anyway, after the more than disappointing epilogue if your legend score was high enough (what is easy this time around) you get a special interlude that you can decide to read or not, and boy, can I understand why this even had to be a choice if you wanted to read it. The interlude only leads up to versus crossover nobody asked for and is basically the equivalent of the author slapping you in the face for hoping to get a satisfying conclusion to all the mess based on not sucking at the game. I fortunately was warned about this, but it still was disappointing to read. Basically a dickish money-grab.
So in conclusion: It was a wild ride and as I never got into versus it ends here for me, OS leaves me with a bitter taste, the feeling of missed opportunities and the conclusion to reshape my memories about the series to fit the very extensive, very queer (without being fetishizing) au version of the series in my head (what means by now that RS and OS basically don’t exist), I think that’s how I will get happy with this series. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
(I never wrote a fix-it fic - I actually didn’t write anything non-work related since ten years- but man…this really soured my opinion of the series as whole enough to consider investing all that spite into a fix-it version of the original games…).
I have what I consider an honest, fair question. Has the author ever named the 10 ROs? On the game page it says 10. The highest I’ve ever seen anyone get with trying to guess at them all were 7, and that was a MASSIVE stretch including people with no romantic scenes whatsoever. Has he ever come out and listed 1 - 10?
Not so far it seems.
But it does seem that the count is either
- Old MC
- Miss Boss
- Verdict (for new MC)
- Verdict (for old MC
- Old MC (for new MC)
- New MC (for old MC)
- Miss Boss
- Lolli & Scoundrel
- Old Mc
- Miss Boss
I’m going to put this under a summary tab because its a bit long and there are potential spoilers.
So I’ve been thinking a bit more about it and am I the only one who can’t see any good coming from having our MC’s in the versus verse? The way I see it unless a save system is implemented the MC’s will not be our own but instead be kind of like a predetermined character. I feel like that will upset a lot of people. If they are our MC’s I feel like we will have very little to no control over them and/or they will be killed off very quickly. This will arguably make even more people angry than it being a predetermined character. Last option I can see would be a quick cameo where we see some “strange looking individuals who appear to have superpowers” and we never hear about them again. Again, I feel like this would upset a lot of people. I honestly don’t see how this whole crossover thing can go well. Unless he wants to continue the Heroes Rise/Hero Project story in the Versus verse (I know he said Open Season would be the last Heroes book but its the only thing I could think of that would kind of make sense). But then the cycle would start over again where we have control over our Heroes Rise/Hero Project character but no control over our Versus character. Or maybe I’m just overthinking everything.
So thats my little rant/thoughts/speculation type thing. Not sure if this topic is the right place to post it but since the discussion thread got taken down I’m not sure where else to put it. Let me know if it should go somewhere else or if I should delete it and pretend I never wrote it.
This post made my brain hurt.
Honestly, I’d be willing to forgive the problematic view of depression if it weren’t for the fact that beta testers pointed it out. I get frustrated when stories use illnesses like depression or anxiety like they are something fashionable. Need your MC to have an easy additional flaw, give them depression! I really believe that it isn’t the intention of any writer to hurt someone but it is impossible to narrow down a mental illness into an easy problem and solution, especially not fitting into a few pages. It is a lifetime ailment and a daily struggle and it’s tough to understand when you’ve never experienced anything like it.
But that is what beta testers are for, so I’m not sure why their input was ignored?
ReadMore for potential triggers:
Going through the old games again to find continuity errors, I’ve come to a dreadful conclusion:
The books are absurdly ableist.
Every kind of ‘otherness NPC’ will get judged for whether or not they are beneficial to the MC. Except for the disabled (unless their ‘craziness’ is fetishized, like with Prodigal, or their disability is used as ‘inspiration’ for others, like with Weaver).
Characters are only allowed to be ‘heroes’ if they are ‘cured’: Kelly is only counted as hero once she can walk, new MC only once they can control their powers AND turn out to be Infini, same for the old MC, Reduct is only considered great once ‘cured’ etc.
Meanwhile characters like Less and Voice (physical disability) are 150% despicable without hope for redemption, the plotholes and inconsistencies with Miss Artillery are waved off with ‘She’s crazy’ since HR3, and lbr: People were only mildly upset at what BlackMagic’s been doing.
Because who cares about the disabled, right?
Also, one could argue that for some reason everything that could actually be beneficial to disabled peeps is declared illegal in universe.
The meds keeping Miss Artillery lucid? Illegal, and not even getting improved for approval.
Splicing, which could have been greatly beneficial to Loa Shift’s ‘clients’? Illegal.
Heck, even the stuff that is there is so… half-arsed. As said above, Weaver’s apaprently not blind because it’s part of them. It comes across as them being blind to be inspirational.
Fumble… declared a joke for having lost his legs, until he 1. becomes beneficial to the MC and 2. the prosthetics make him ‘more-than-human’.
Sorry, but this is making me angry.
One a brief note on the romance:
I’m starting to believe that Crystalline was counted to, aka, about half of the ‘10 ROs’ aren’t ROs at all.
So I see many of the flaws others see, but I’m curious if anyone else felt ultra let down by the two MC’s romance. I found it bland, and not engaging at all. If HR and VS cross over, I hope my two HR MC’s die during the teleport. I don’t want them messing with how my Priscan story unfolds. That seems like it will be messy, and lacklustre if they are brought in. Since I doubt how I played them will transfer to VS properly.
I found that even though I made the HR trilogy MC pretty dark, and as sinister as you could be in that story. When she appeared in this new one, she was nothing like she was, and she was supposedly known for control. She was unleashed not control…
I did still enjoy it enough to go through it multiple times.
The MC/MC romance (YMMV, but like every romance in this) felt tacked on.
The old MC we dealt with was either a cardboard or Sergi’s own Riser, with no regards to anything.
Like, just speaking for myself (might have noted before), but my Seraphym would have brought that gun, yes… to throw it at Infinitum and use the moment when Infi dodges to punch her teeth in.
Seraphym is a very pragmatic person.
Likewise, the reasoning for the romance:
Not agenda, not personality… no… just ‘i’m getting all hot and bothered by you turning into animals’
Well, in his code for OS, if you select that you “tend to be attracted to androgyny”, then the code lists you as pan. So, no, he doesn’t know what pansexuality is.
#I'm most attracted to androgyny and uncategorizable genders, but I try not to limit myself to any narrow expectations or limitations. *set pansex true
#I am asexual. *set asexual true While you might be interested in developing a romantic relationship with someone in the future, you aren't currently interested in engaging in a sexual relationship. That said, if you do develop feelings for someone, they usually tend to be: *choice #Male. *set attractmen true *goto lbtimeos #Female. *set attractwomen true *set weaverze "she" *set weaverhir "her" *set weaverhis "her" *set weaverne "niece" *goto lbtimeos #Either male or female. *set bisex true *set attractmen true *set attractwomen true *set weaverze "ze" *set weaverhir "hir" *set weaverhis "hir" *set weaverne "niephew" *goto lbtimeos #Neither male nor female. *set pansex true *set attractmen true *set attractwomen true *set weaverze "ze" *set weaverhir "hir" *set weaverhis "hir" *set weaverne "niephew" *goto lbtimeos