Outcast (WIP) - Comments Welcome (Sneak peek Uploaded!)

@DreamingGames probably took a look at the code.

Check out this topic for more info:

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Thanks, I didn’t know that was possible.

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This is simply not true. I don’t at all mean this in a confrontational way, but the majority of fiction features people writing about things they haven’t experienced first-hand. J.K. Rowling wrote a bajillion words about a boy wizard’s coming of age story. The majority of Choicescript titles are written by one, maybe two people and a lot of them feature plots and main characters they could not possibly share first-hand experiences with.

It’s really like @IvoryOwl says, it’s about research. There’s obviously limitations on comfort and ability for each writer! So I’m not trying to suggest if you just read a bunch about people you don’t identify with, that will suddenly make you understand them enough to write them in well. And while I am not personally a fan of gender-locked games (and a total ho for character creation, even when it’s never mentioned in-game lol), that’s def an option available to you if you think it’d make for the best game you can write. I’m non-binary but the majority of the original characters I’ve created over the years are cisgender guys.

My personal rec, if it matters, when it comes to research about identities or experiences of specific demographics, careers, etc is Quora. And this forum ain’t too shabby either.

Also, I’m confused? is there a password for the demo?


Apologies… something weird happened and it’s now back on dashingdon. First off, I value everyone’s opinion, but see… Rowling had a kid, and she modeled Harry after her son.

“Write what you know” is a truism that has been tested by time. I mean, sure you can “do the research” but it’s like driving a car, you can do all the research you want, but you have to drive a car to know what it’s like to drive a car, otherwise everything is going to sound fake to the people who have actually driven cars.

Unless you having serious mad fun (like Pratchett or Adams or whoever) everyone writes what they know, that is if they have had any hope of doing any quality work.

What I’m getting at is something called the “ring of truth”. Do you know why the interaction with mom sounds so authentic? because my mom did that… all. the. time. And it was annoying and so I could write it exactly the way she did it, and I know there are other moms who do this, and that people could relate to this.

So this is why this is gender-neutral, because once anyone starts coding for it they are going to end up blindfolded in a minefield and you never know if you are going to step on a mine.

the majority of the original characters I’ve created over the years are cisgender guys.

Exactly… because cisgender guys are easy to code for, we just have he, his and him. There’s a huge minefield of unwritten rules for coding non-binary people that I’m not familiar with, that I would have to take the better part of a month or two to even learn, and even after that there are a ton of pronouns, some of which are actually made up (but you don’t know which ones are made up, of course) so there’s no way to find out until someone gets offended that you did not include his personal pronoun.

A non-binary person on this site flagged me on this site because I dared say “cat have a I” was bad grammar no matter what.

And also because @Laguz said it was fine, so I’m going with it :slight_smile: unless you can assure me someone is not going to be offended that he could not use his personal pronouns. I did try, but if you look at @Laguz 's post (that he has deleted for some reason) you’d see exactly that…

I’ve heard “you can write stories with minorities in them, but you shouldn’t write stories about  *being*  minorities unless you are one”.

Nobody wants to do Choice of Gender.

And that’s exactly right, and why this is gender-neutral - because otherwise there will be so much gender-specific code, everyone might as well be playing Choice of Gender :slight_smile:

Apologies again for the tone, I’m a little miffed because of the server screw-up, which I’m going to have to fix now :stuck_out_tongue:

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So do trans guys. So do some non-binary people. Nothing to do with cis people. Your point?

Who cares if they’re made up? They’re still valid because they’re in use. You wanna use cat/cat’s/catself? Who the fuck am I to stop you?

One trans person’s identity and ability to express themself the way they wish > all cis peoples’ ideas of perfect grammar and language.

How do you know? As far as I am aware, it takes three people to have a post flagged visibly.

Stop calling me he. Also, stop tagging me in every other post just to misgender me. It’s pissing me off to no end.

Everyone’s going to be offended by something. It’s more important that you try then you don’t. Just keep your head humble and respectfully listen to the people you’re trying to represent instead of pitching a hissy fit when they criticise you and you’ll be fine.


I can wholeheartedly understand the desire to write from what you know. Honestly, that’s a smart play most of the time for exactly the reasons you describe (I said something similar when someone asked about why so many characters and settings in these stories are American; because research never replaces experience in making your writing feel truly organic). I would still disagree that you can’t write about being a minority just because you aren’t, that’s far too limiting. It is fair to say that before you do so, you need to do a lot of legwork to get into that mindset. And if that’s not a big focus of your story, it could prove more of a distraction or hindrance than it’s worth.

Ultimately, you know yourself better than anyone else. If you’re not writing from a position of comfort and certainty, the audience will be able to tell. Heck, it looks like they already did. Besides, there’s a lot of value in keeping a slate as blank as possible to allow readers to insert themselves into it without getting in their way. No matter which way you go, good luck!


The best advice I can give you at this point - don’t try to be inclusive when you have no idea how to be inclusive. I don’t mean this as an offense but some times what seems like a “good gesture” can turn out to be the exact opposite. Don’t force yourself to write a story you’re not comfortable with, especially with matters your audience is sensitive to.

The way I see it you have 3 options:

  • Take a breather and come back at a later point. Look at the problem and comb for a solution. Do your homework. Don’t just rely on your audience to tell you everything - you have to do some of the legwork yourself as well.

  • Write a story you’re more comfortable with; stick to binary pronouns or make it gender-locked to male. This will at least help you garner some experience until you feel ready to expand your horizons. This won’t necessarily draw a lot of people but being honest upfront will at least give them a head’s up on what they’re getting themselves into… or whether or not they should read it.

  • If CoG ends up feeling too “constricting” for you then you may want to look for other websites and forums where you can post your game. This way you’ll be able to write your story as you deem fit but it will also mean you’ll be skipping on an opportunity to expand your horizons.

In the end, it is up to you.


Thanks, this means a lot coming from a published author. That’s exactly it, your audience isn’t stupid, they can tell if you are faking it. It sounds dull and flat, or forced and kludgy. If you are comfortable with it, and it sounds authentic and reasonable, everyone (including you) will know.

Stop calling me *he* . Also, stop tagging me in every other post just to misgender me. It’s pissing me off to no end.

See. this is what happens… I’m not perfect. If I don’t make it gender-neutral, somewhere in 30,000 words, a “he” will slip in somewhere, and people will get offended. So gender-neutral solves everything for everyone :slight_smile:

some times what seems like a “good gesture” can turn out to be the exact opposite.

Yup, this happened with the first draft :slight_smile:

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“slip in” come on you aren’t even trying. look you seem convinced things need to be written from experience (Not true by the way. It just requires that you be willing to put in the work of doing research.) and if it that is genuinely the case then don’t write trans people. You are clearly not interested in doing the work or listening to peoples completely valid criticisms of your work coming from their lived experience of living as a trans person.

And don’t pretend any of this was intended as a “good gesture” on your part otherwise you wouldn’t be getting defensive over the most basic corrections on how one should write trans people.


Unless I have misinterpreted the previous posts, @Aworthy already said he no longer intended to do so.

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Yeah, I saw that and maybe I should have phrased that bit differently. My point is if you (metaphorical you not literal you) are going to try and tackle sensitive subject matter and arent willing to do the work to make sure you aren’t hurting already vulnerable people then don’t try and write it in the first place. If they don’t want to put in the work then they never should have put it in a published first draft especially if they can’t take criticism from the people they hurt with ignorance.

Honestly though? I probably wouldn’t have commented on the thread at all if it wasn’t for the fact that OP both is super defensive of any criticism and they keep misgendering people and trying to make it seem like the person saying “Hey please stop misgendering me” is the one in the wrong. To be absolutely clear; Someone correcting someone else for using the wrong pronouns not in any way in the wrong. Which is like, Trans Issues 101 and OP would know that if they had y’know, done research. Seriously all OP had to say was “I messed up” and apologize. People mess up it’s how we learn and grow. But OP has shown no indication that they are willing to do that.

And really if either the mods or OP could remove the “non-binary inclusive” tag for the post that’d be great.


Since words are already spoken, I think it’s best for you @Aworthy to edit your first post to reflect all of these changes you’ve decided. Will the game genderlocked moving forward?

It’s being extensively remodeled, but I have a sneak peek up! :slight_smile:

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Don’t forget to remove the “non-binary inclusive” tag, to prevent further confusion. If you lack permission then feel free to contact a mod. :slight_smile:


I removed it, they put it back.

So, is it going to be genderlocked??? :confused:

I believe @Aworthy means to leave the gender of the MC ambiguous.

That’s one of the reasons I love using the words them, they, I, you and me, it avoids the whole extra writing with using gender pronouns. (ideally I try not to mention gender until it becomes relevant in the story)

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