Alright then, while I try and wrap my head around editing the first post…
Here is a link to the blog, up and running hopefully, though some features may be limited on older browsers.
Have fun, and let me know of any problems or bugs 
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Alright, I have a question for you all.
I’m doing some background work on how each romantic route develops and when, and it occurred to me that I hadn’t actually decided when I would stop the reader from changing their minds on who they wanted to Romance. The earlier the lock in happens the more I can “surprise” the reader with their chosen paramours actions, you know, a bouquet of flowers or a peck on the cheek, that sort of fluff (and some more dramatic elements but we’ll stay with the fluff for now).
So, my question is:
When, if ever, do you prefer to see a lock in for Romantic Interests?
Romance Lock In
- Early (first 25% of a story)
- Mid (about 50% of the way through)
- Late (just before the “final battle”)
- Never (no lock in)
0 voters
I’m intrigued to see what you all think about this.
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I have answered mid-story, because that’s what I TEND to prefer in IF style games, but I don’t mind it to be at 75% if you want to do the confessions and so part of the climax or pre-climax of the story, which is commonly used in VNs and something I love too. It’s just that it’s not the usual IF approach. Well, at least the fact the confessions or establishment of the romance is by the end, not necessarily the lock on per se… But the different structure of IF shouldn’t make it jarring. 
25% is something I usually don’t like because it doesn’t leave as much time to get to know the characters before having to decide - unless it’s 25% of the total story of like a trilogy, in which case it would still appear pretty late in the first book and leave ample time to get to know everyone.
Basically, I prefer relationships to be a bit more slow burn. Even with the lock on and obvious signs of attraction appearing pretty early, I still prefer if the relationship truly starts late in the game.
Anyway, that’s still just my opinion, but I prefer to explain the reasoning behind my vote instead of just voting, in case you find it interesting!
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I think mid lock usually works best for the story because the player has the time to get to know the RO’s - but it’s also not a big deal if it happens early and it might lead to higher replayability because then you choose your path at the start and can’t see the content for other RO’s until you replay the game. For late lock it works best for a series, I believe (example: Wayhaven Chronicles).
I don’t think I’ve seen any examples of No-Lock in games like this, what did you have in mind?
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i think mid-way through of an RO lock would be best, considering that you should first meet and learn about them before having to choose.
If you make the RO lock too early, it’d be hard to choose an RO because the player has not “bonded/get to know” the characters yet. Too late, and it feels…kinda off? like you keep waiting, and waiting and when it finally comes, it gets anti-climax (unless the game is a part of a series).
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Ah, I just finished playing the demo and I love the idea of being able to have a child. And the way the demo ended really made me excited for more. The fact that the child’s other parent can be the same sex as the MC and there’s no need to explain the hows and the whys, was so amazing. Really made me happy
Error
I found this bug (error?).
We’re already back in the room, so after choosing my child’s hair and hair color it loops back to the reedbed scene. I think the bug comes due to the choice “the style is the same but the hair color is different”. Because whenever I chose the other options I didn’t have that issue. In the picture you can see how at the top it mentions my hair color (Black) but the following text is about the mass in the mud.
But yes, this was fun. And regarding the romance lock-in, I’ve never read an IFs where it locks at 25% so that could be interesting.
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I love the demo so much 
cant wait for more interaction with the child and the ros:heart_eyes: . Also Your Tumblr ask is disabled for anonymous in case you don’t know .
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Sounds very interesting! Bold of you to include such themes, and I hope to see it well realized.
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Tech/Error stuff first:
Thanks @HauteOte for the error heads up. All sorted now (I hope) and the new file should be up on Dash.
@Mary I’ve allowed anonymous questions now, though I’m always a little wary of such things, we’ll see how nicely the internet can behave itself with anonymity.
Now to the Romance Lock In
@Konoi Interesting, I’m definitely a fan of a slow burn narrative, though I do find myself aggravated if a story has an excess of “will they, won’t they”. I’m only planning to write the one book so far, though I’ll keep my options open as much as I can for maybe coming back to the narrative after. Which that in mind I’m going to aim to get the MC and RO in a stable relationship by the end of the story (or as stable as it can be at least). Confessions and declarations will vary dependent upon the route.
@Mango_Pirate Mid lock does seem to be where the pendulum is settling, though it may yet surprise us. That works remarkably well for the plot narrative from my perspective, so no complaints from me. The game is going to be long, and I’d love for people to want to replay it, but I also want to respect their time in that matter, so I’m cautious of the 25% lock in. The plan at the moment is to have chapter 1 as a testing ground for one potential RO, then chapters 2 and 3 being the kinda explore around get a feel for everyone space before any serious interactions start to take place.
I think I’ve only seen one or two no lock in stories, though the names escape me right now, but they basically allowed you to pick from the full pool no matter what your previous actions with the characters, right up to the last choice.
@Mistyleaf123 Yes. I fear the anti-climax greatly. And in all honestly I don’t really want the romance routes to come to a single “goal” moment, more a steady culmination of actions and probably a good amount of feels.
@fisheye Yeah its tricky. I hate having to restart because of that, going through all the same choices just to correct that one place (or in this case maybe more) where you want to change things, it drains some of the fun out of the story. Which I suppose you could argue lends itself to neither the early or the late lock in. As you rightly say, that initial “getting to know you stage” is critically important.
@William_Penning Thank you! I share that hope!
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Well that ended on the intriguing note indeed. Will wait for the update!
Also I like the premise of having a child to take care of. It is interesting to see what you will do with that plot. Good luck!
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Welp, final results in and it seems the 50%'s won by a very healthy margin.
Early (first 25% of a story): 34
Mid (about 50% of the way through: 84
Late (just before the “final battle”): 3
Never (no lock in): 3
Thank you all for voting, it’s really helped me out with structuring the various routes. It also means, due to now what will be a roughly be a half way lock in, that y’all in for some drama in the story 
Just to say it one more time, thank you all for voting, the response has been brilliant!
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I’m trans, I always play cis MCs though (well, 99% of the time) even when given a choice, because I hate that I can’t be cis in real life. I know however that others feel very different and would love representation. And even if no one on this board would use that option, think of it this way: You never know who might stumble upon your game in the future. Who might not even know about this forum and thus not get a chance to voice their opinion.
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I’ve been eager for some discussion on this.
As previously stated, I want to make Myrk Mire as accessible as I can for as many readers as I can.
Currently the player’s representative gender is selected through how the child character sees them.
You are their Mother, Father or Ren if the biological or adoptive routes are picked, for example.
I’d like to build on the idea that all other things are secondary to the child.
You are their insert relationship. No ifs, buts, or grey areas.
With that in mind do you think it would help people feel comfortable if at some later stage in the plot a birth assigned gender could be selected?
An inner monologue piece, not a discussion with another character or any kind of traumatic event.
That information could then be stored in the stats page for the player to see, but not to play a part of the narrative.
Please tell me if I’ve worded anything insensitively or if there are topics you don’t wish to discuss.
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Disclaimer: I’m only talking for myself here.
I wouldn’t mind an implementation like that and I also think, as a cis person this is the safest way for you to go.
By that I mean, yes, you could theoretically go more into detail, for example I remember one game that let me wear a binder and I really appreciated this detail being included as a pre top surgery trans dude who actually wears them in real life. I mean, using and wearing them is completely normal (to me) and no touchy subject or taboo in any shape or form. It’s a piece of clothing, albeit an annoying one 
. But the issue is - staying with this example - not every trans guy wears them. Some can’t due to health reasons, some don’t even experience dysphoria with regards to their breasts and thus simply don’t want to wear them. So you might in the worst case end up in a situation where some trans people appreciate those details, while others tell you that they’re feeling misrepresented, and (let’s be real here) it’s easier to get away with a certain depiction of what it’s like to be trans, if you are trans yourself, because then you can always say “it’s valid, because I chose to base this upon my own experience”. You might not be given that leniency as a cis author.
Long story short, the more you go into detail, the more it becomes a minefield and the only way to prevent this that I can see, would be to offer a huge amount of choices to represent the many flavors of transness, which would in my opinion be overkill and possibly throw the story off balance.
Oh, and while I would play your game as a cis MC like I usually do, I’d love an option for the child to be trans.
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I have another important poll to put before you all.
If anyone’s been over to tumblr they may be aware that I’ve finished writing chapter 1, and that said content is being checked through before the demo is updated.
In Chapter 1, as it stands right now, there is a scene in which the MC has a panic attack.
The character who is witness to this panic attack reacts in accordance with the UK charity Mind’s guidelines. They are present, they remain with the MC, and they do not make physical contact (hand to hold, hug, etc) unless they receive permission from the MC. Afterwards there is a discussion about blame:
Blame Discussion (Contains spoilers)
Please note I had to add _'s to get paragraph formatting to play nice
We stay that way, talking. My own role in the conversation grows tentatively, till I find my voice replying almost as often as Peidyn speaks. Even when the aftershocks of fear abate, I find comfort in the solid certainty of her presence.
_
“It’s not your fault, you know.” She says eventually.
(Player Choice)
I know
“I know.” I reply shakily.
_
Peidyn gives a little sigh before she speaks. “But knowing isn’t feeling, is it?”
_
“No, it isn’t.”
I know that theoretically, but that doesn’t quell the sudden spike of shame
I know it isn’t my fault. Nobody chooses to… Well, I certainly didn’t choose to…
_
Peidyn gives a little sigh before she speaks. “But knowing isn’t feeling, is it?”
_
I shake my head. You can know all the clever sayings, truths and certainties in the world, but when it comes to warding off that gnawing shame in your gut, I don’t think there are any guarantees.
But it is my fault
But it is my fault. There’s no two ways about it.
_
Peidyn was there too. She went into that room with me. And what’s more she actually remembers what happened.
_
She isn’t breaking down at the drop of a hat though. No Peidyn’s the one having to pick me up from the floor. So how can it not be my fault?
There are two more variations where the MC says nothing and internalises whether they think it is their fault or not, but they follow closely to these so I won’t paste them in.
If the MC chooses not to blame themselves:
“Just so you know MC, I’m here, if you ever need me.”
_
She says it with a certainty that catches at the back of my throat.
_
“I mean it. Even if it’s just to while away the hours with town gossip. You just let me know, and I’ll be there. Alright?”
_
I swallow back the lump in my throat and nod.
_
Come rain or shine, or horrifying manic panic, Peidyn’s here when I need her.
If the MC chooses to blame themselves:
“Listen to this, if you ignore everything else I ever tell you, remember what I say right now.”
_
She says it with an urgency that captures my entire attention.
_
“Needing help does not mean your helpless. It doesn’t mean you’re weak. It doesn’t mean you’ve failed. It means you need help.”
_
I swallow back the lump in my throat.
_
Peidyn continues, squeezing my hands again. “Second thing I want you to remember. We want to help you. All of us.”
_
Come rain or shine, or horrifying manic panic, Peidyn’s here when I need her.
Okay, sorry for the long read, but context and content is important in this one.
Currently the MC will go through this scene regardless of choices. There is no avoiding it, there is no choosing whether the MC has a panic attack or not.
And that’s the question really. Should the player have that choice?
Trauma: I do realize that some people reading will have had traumatic experiences with panic attacks and anxiety. Should I there for include an option to skip over this scene? My own fears with this option is that it will be jarring to the narrative, and completely break the emersion of the moment.
Lack of player agency: These stories are interactive mediums and player agency is a very important part of that. On the other hand, as expressed within the text, no one chooses to have a panic attack, or any other mental health difficulties. So, in this case, is it more realistic and respectful to the incident in reality to take the choice away from the player?
Lastly, before the poll itself, please keep all discussion of mental health respectful and open in the subsequent posts.
- Player should have option not to have panic attack
- Player should have option to skip scene but the character still has the panic attack
- Keep the scene as is, without player choice
- None of the above (please either send me a PM or post below with your suggestion)
0 voters
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I selected “none of the above”, because I think the way I prefer it in these games is to add a warning about that type of content (and any other sensitive things - sensitive in that kind of way, anyway) when the player starts the game, and ask them a question around the lines of:
“Do you want to play these scenes without interruptions, recieve a warning of upcoming triggering content with the possibility to chose to skip from scene to scene, or auto-skip all sensitive material?”
Sometimes games even offer the possibility to ask about skipping or auto-skip some types of sensitive content but not other types.
I know I hate it when the narrative is interrupted and the game asks me if I want to skip something, considering I never skip anything, EVEN if it’s something that I can react a bit badly to, simply because skipping content is worse to me, so yeah, I really dislike the interruptions.
But I also totally understand why some people would want to be asked and to skip if needed.
In any case, the only option I would NOT like to see from the three other ones is the first one, tentatively?
Why tentatively?
Well, you see, I have seen games that force panic attacks on the MC, and games that make the players chose if their MC has a panic attack, and I don’t think I did ever find it jarring, one or the other. I think it’s basically about author’s intention.
In your case, I see the MC having a panic attack IS your intention as an author, to advance the narrative and further a relationship, and in this case, I would suggest not giving the possibility for the player to decide their MC doesn’t have a panic attack.
With that being said, it’s very “easy” to make it seem like a very organic choice, with a wording that makes one of the option clearly going towards that, and the other one saying something akin to “I take deep breaths before I start panicking” or something like that.
Now, with all of that being said…
I would suggest adding one option to the panic attack reaction itself? Or well, more accurately, to add a choice prior to the one you showed us.
One with only two options, where the MC will be ok with the other character staying with them, and one where they’d tell them to leave them alone. I know when I have panic attacks IRL, I can’t STAND having a person in the same room as me - like, that makes it worse tenfold.
I probably won’t select that in the game anyway, considering I don’t self-insert or identify with MC’s in games so they are NOT like me, but having the option would still be nice 
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From a personal standpoint, would it be acceptable if the person present distanced themselves physically from you? Turned around to face the other way and crossed to the other side of the room? The location in the story is a garden. Would it help if the character present went to carry out some other jobs while you worked through the attack at your own pace?
I am reluctant to have an option where the MC is isolated completely. But that’s biased to my own experience, not advice from Mind.
I really like the idea of this “Meta switch”. That honestly does sound like one of the best ways to forewarn people without giving specifics of plot away, or breaking the emersion.
Where do you think the cut should fall in such a circumstance? Should the panic attack itself be the only skimmed element, or should discussion of the attack also be skimmed?
Or perhaps as you say the skip should come with varieties of severity…
3 Likes
For me? It wouldn’t work, no…
I NEED to be fully alone if that happens, otherwise the stress of knowing someone is there and that I can see them and THEY can see me would be impossible to deal with to me.
That’s tricky?
It clearly wouldn’t work for me in real life - I think I’d just run away or throw things / scream at the person without even thinking until I’m away or THEY’re away. Like, when I’m like that, the thing at the forefront of my mind is what makes me panic, and then the only other thought that surfaces is “I need to be alone!”. So as long as I see another person or even know they are nearby, it’s pretty awful.
Now, for the purposes of the game, I think it would be a perfectly acceptable middle ground? 
It’s cool if you like the idea!
I don’t think the discussion should be skipped, considering it’s important for character building, right? So a recap wouldn’t be the same, especially considering the choice you showed us seems pretty important to MC’s mentality and their dynamic with the other character.
Well you could, but that would be a lot of work, so it depends on if you think you’ll manage, at this point!
1 Like
Well, that was a far closer poll than the last one.
I’ve been prepping the mechanics over the weekend to add a switch, available at the start of the game, and in the stat screen, that will operate on three different settings:
-
No Filter
There will be no change to the text from what was originally written. -
Skimmed Scenes
This means you will be informed the main character is experiencing a panic attack, but you not be privy to descriptions of sensation or mental symptoms.
You will however see scenes where the anxiety is discussed and addressed by the main character and others. -
No Descriptions
The main character will still experience panic and extreme anxiety, but the player will not see the scene. You will be provided a brief summary of events, you will not be asked to make choices pertaining to the trauma, and you will not see discussion of them by the main character or others.
I hope this will provide a safety tool for readers, but not in an intrusive way that breaks the flow of the narrative.
Little bit more testing to do, then I should be able to put chapter 1 up in the demo.
Thank you so much to everyone who voted and sent in suggestions, it’s been a tremendous help.
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I like horror/thriller/suspense type of cog and wips lol wish theres more like this out there~ great start!!!~ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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