@Cheezabelle had the same impression as you, but I still think there were several hints that this was only what Hayden wanted you to believe, or at least that they were heavily exaggerating their role in it. I really have to go back and take some screenshots to show what I mean.
Same! Imagine having sex with them on that altar, all covered in blood and god-guts! dies +_+
SAME! I LOVE messing up, just to get different responses! XD And I also love how you can get them to patch you up if you get hurt.
But my favorite moment is this one; it’s so fucking funny:
I missed that!!! How do you get that scene?!? Is it when you dont have bandages? Also i feel as if
Hayden was a alot more comfortable and free with us when acting as Imperion. I read the theory that winter is aggressive towards happy couples… but I feel as if they were more aggressive towards L rather than with both of us. Maybe because they dislike characters who are perceived to be weak. I dont rememeber them acting towards D that way even when my mc and D are happy together.
another betrayal? It feels like a warning. But it is chilling
I got it by getting hurt by the thing in the swamp and having bandages. Then Winter uses them to patch your neck up. The one time I truly messed up and didn’t have any bandages (and didn’t even try to fight the creature, in short, when I acted like a total moron), I fainted and Winter saved me while I was out, and I woke up at Imperion’s place and everyone was pissed. lol
Ever since I found out that this scene serves a double-purpose as an introduction to Hayden for the players who didn’t play Sordwin, I don’t know what to make of some details anymore. It needs to be a continuation of a relationship that is already going strong at this point, no matter how odd of a relationship it is, but also function as a first impression, so… Yeah… I take everything about it with a huge grain of salt now when considering it for my theories.
Yeah, I posted that theory in the other thread. I’ll paste it for full context:
Summary
I personally don’t think it’s jealousy in the sense of “I wish I were in a romantic relationship, too”, more like a callousness and general disdain for anything pure and true, because to them and their deeply cynical world view, relationships like this are bound to fail anyway or were never real in the first place. They do say in Lux when impersonating Imperion “(…) but when did anyone ever get what they wanted out of marriage.” Okay, they’re more or less acting as Imperion here, but they break character all the time while doing so, because it’s just a prank anyway, and I do actually think that’s Hayden’s real opinion shining through.
You’re right, Ruby’s and Keoni’s relationship is technically left open for interpretation, but she does state that Winter hated how close they were (whatever that meant).
I believe Hayden must have longed for some form of let’s call it companionship, but I’m not sure if this feeling isn’t long gone and all that’s left is some form of entitlement and/or ownership of others. Another reason for them reacting so violently towards L could be the fact that L is - in some paths at least - the direct reason for you rejecting Winter’s sexual advances. They find you remotely interesting, they find you hot and at least your eyes pretty enough to steal them, and they view you as their “plaything” (that’s what they call you in a different route, if you sleep with them in the cabin), they even bluntly state “You’re mine now”. But I personally don’t think there’s any romantic feelings - not even the twisted, sick, f-ed up, Jun-like definition of romantic feelings - involved. It’s just greed, lust and entitlement. I mean, yeah, it sucks, but that’s my impression.
What my theory came down to isn’t even necessarily a contradiction to your thoughts. I called it “general disdain for anything pure and true”, you “they dislike characters who are perceived to be weak”. That can go well together. Although they didn’t like Ruby’s and Keoni’s relationship, and Ruby is not a weak person and Keoni in his former position probably wasn’t weak either, but that’s speculation. I also mentioned another explanation for why they were more aggressive towards L than us (because we were what they were after and L was the reason they couldn’t get “it”).
I left D + MC’s relationship out of the original equation, because in this case, Winter’s approach is indeed a different one, but it was still my personal impression they deeply enjoyed fucking both, only to then enjoy fucking both of them over. And the end result was the same: Hayden trying to kill and thereby destroy a couple.
I don’t think they have a fixation on this like some serial killer going out of their way to hunt couples down like a villain in an 80s slasher movie, just something that brings them joy whenever the chance arises to act upon it, like a cute little flower they pluck along the way.
But… It’s nothing I’d bet money on, in the end, after all those weeks of hyperfixation on Winter, I still feel like I know nothing and like I’m only chasing my own tail and getting lost in their maze. I just have fun trying to spot patterns like that.
It keeps me occupied as long as there’s no new content. I don’t even post my weirdest theories. XD
Totally! But I don’t even know which direction to look at, because
Winter simply betraying us would be business as usual at this point and a joke we’d not only expect but have heard before. But if we cannot hear it, that must mean, we’re really clueless and not looking in the right direction. Maybe it’s Winter laughing with us this time instead of at us? As unrealistic as that is, it would definitely also be the most unexpected explanation. I used to think in the beginning that maybe Hayden was at least Geoffrey’s murderer, because that would be an explanation for the joke, with the punchline being that we were looking for the murderer and even ended up being framed as the murderer (potentially) while the real killer was by our side the entire time. But that wouldn’t work as a great reveal for people who don’t romance Winter or don’t even try to solve the murders.
I just think it would be as hilarious as cruel if TWO changelings impersonated Kyran when interacting with Geoffrey. Poor guy.
I was so pissed at Dandy when he refused to listen to me and instead wanted to trust winter with their life. So in that regard maybe they wanted ruby for themselves?The way Ruby told her story it certainly felt as if jealousy was involved on winter’s part. Or maybe they wanted her just to backstab her and then laugh evilly over her body.
So true. It never crossed my mind that winter could be the killer. But i always had a suspicion that Kyran was involved (at first i was hoping for Kyran to be winter who has come to check up on us and also serve as a warning for mcs who didnt go along with their plans)
Maybe something about Imperion’s plan? Remember the warning they gave us at the end of Imperion tour, it sounded as if they knew what was going to happen, so, in a way, they knew about the assassination case and geoffrey’s unavoidable death. And they may have some inkling as to what Imperion has planned for us. Maybe they would warn us in their unique way or just hang back and watch how it will play out all the whole laughing at us.
Yeah, that… is probably the best outcome. It’s easy (if you know what you’re doing, and admittedly, most don’t) to implement in a modern real life setting, but in a fantasy world like Evertree Saga… I wonder how you’d go about implementing it in a way that fits the setting yet doesn’t end in misery porn due to the MC getting clocked and misgendered by NPCs all the time, because there’s no surgery options nor HRT. The thought is funny, though, having to drink sparkling testosterone potions, but it would strike me as odd, if people in that universe even knew what hormones were and how they worked. And then you’d have magic as the ultimate counterargument and solution: Why wouldn’t there a potion exist, or a spell, that simply changed your entire body, permanently or not. Permanently would lead you back to square one, because then it wouldn’t make much of a difference anymore if you were ever trans (realistically it would, but it’s not reality), non-permanently would require you to implement the potion drinking as a recurring thing, and that would have strong consequences for the entire plot, because you’d always have to take the access to those potions into consideration.
And even if you decided to go down the “there’s no surgery / hrt, but also no transphobia” route, your ROs would realistically comment on it in some way, and that’s another can of worms.
I do remember a fantasy WIP here though, that implemented being trans in a way I actually liked, but the setting was a bit more modern. I don’t remember the name, but you were part of some special team that lived in a moving train, and the MC could be a living doll or a basilisk among other things, and there were other anthropomorphic animal NPCs.
Usually, I never play as trans anyway (why would I do that to myself; it sucks enough in real life), but I deeply love the whole concept of changelings and like to think of myself as some real life ultra-slow-mo-changeling (because it’s fun and kinda fitting and makes me feel better). I probably benefit more from that thought and metaphor - even if it isn’t intended as such - than I ever could from any direct ingame references to being trans.
My personal impression was that Winter was mostly pissed at Ruby and Keoni for being “too humble” and still following some code of honor, while Hayden had higher aspirations. Ruby says “I’m a pirate, but Winter is something else”. Of course, Winter is factually also a pirate, but I think she was hinting at their ruthlessness. Both Ruby and Keoni (judging by how Ruby speaks of him) are portrayed as having a kind heart. Ruby also says, the two of them were in it for the adventure, and that clearly wasn’t enough for Winter. They must have felt like they were holding them back, so they used them as a stepping stone when the first chance to “upgrade” arose, and it obviously paid off.
Being stuck with them must have been very grating and frustrating for Hayden, now if you add them having a crush on each other into the mix, I can totally see how that would fuel their anger even more. Being around couples CAN be incredibly irritating.
Kyran is definitely involved, but I always thought it was way too obvious, and there must be at least another twist to it. Or maybe I’m just overthinking everything at this point while trying to follow the 4d chess Thom is playing with this. I dropped the Winter theory, because then you wouldn’t have to come up with the whole Devil’s Kiss arc. Winter could impersonate any guard, infiltrate the mayor’s house, and just kill him. They’re pretty overpowered. lol
(Which once again reminds me of my idea of anti-changeling magic. If you meet Winter in Lux for the first time, and haven’t played Sordwin, you learn that while generally rare, changelings are all over Lux - wouldn’t important people have some anti changeling countermeasures up their sleeves? If this was a modern setting, I’d place body temperature sensors everywhere)
I can totally see why you would’ve thought Kyran was Winter at first; I’m not sure if I ever did, but the first time I played Lux, I still romanced L, and when you romance L and meet Kyran for the first time, it is mentioned how Kyran with his intense eyes reminds you of Hayden Winter, which made me think it can’t be Winter then, because then the story wouldn’t give it away like that. And the the two of them having separate relationship bars, but ok, you don’t know this in the very beginning.
I first took this warning as a sign of… maybe not exactly trust, but I felt flattered they’d warn me, like we were getting somewhere, a bit closer, you know? But if you play that scene and have never played Sordwin, you’ll still get that warning, and that totally ruined any illusion of getting closer to them for me.
But I agree with you on that it (the destiny clay’s warning) most likely refers to the outcome of Imperion’s plan and us being a pawn in it.
This is probably it. But… …I hope it’s not it.
Btw, I’m 100% convinced this wasn’t the last we’ve seen of that torture chamber.
@ThomB I’m sure you’ve mentioned it before, but how do you feel about Patreon? Not worth the extra hassle / work? I’d love to throw my money at you for snippets, previews and lore to kill the time between the books. +_+
Hello everyone, I was wondering what’s your favorite Fantasy races/species for your MCs in Lux, city of lies and the Evertree Saga in general. I’m also curious about which of the careers in Lux, citiy of lies and the Evertree Saga in general is your favorite career(whether because of the abilities and skills they increase, the scenes from that career in Lux, book one or other things?
My favorite Fantasy races/species in Lux and the Evertree Saga in general, is the brownie. I like the combination of their great magic power, their general vibe of innocence and shyness/timidity/fragility(although the druid/shaman is Lux admittedly doesn’t seem that shy or timid) and their uniqueness. My second favorite is the halfling, although, with the possible exception of humans , who I find a little boring as MCs, I find all the different Fantasy races/species interesting and enjoyable for my MCs.
As for the careers, I particularly enjoy those who have one or both of the magical stats as a main stat. My top four, impossible to rank so far, are the magical scholar, the druid and the shaman and lastly the career that was either called the minstrel or bard.As long as you remember to “portion out” your spell use, magic seems your most useful skill and so it seems to me that the magicusers are generally the most powerful characters in the first Lux book, at least as long as your magic skills are increased as much as they should be.
I’ve always enjoyed playing characters that are kind of performers, so the Minstrel/Bard helps scratching that itch so to speak and the scenes of that career are maybe the scenes that I found most enjoyable out of all the scenes of the different careers. The Scholar has scenes that are almost as enjoyable as the Minstrel/Bard ones and is such a magical powerhouse that it seems that it’s just a little bit better than the Minstrel/Bard when it comes to what it can do(though that’s just my impression). And that the scenes of this career, unlike the Minstrel/Bard and the Shaman/Druid ones are unique to this career, is a nice bonus. The Shaman and druid scenes offers the so far(to my knowledge) to meet a brownie outside of any eventual MCs. I also think they are quite fun, bot not quite so fun as the Scholar and Bard/Minstrel ones. What I really appreciate about those careers is the extremely strong combination of Percpetion abilities and Magical abilities. A strong Observation combined with your character being strong in magic, will mean both that uour character will be really good at discovering physical clues and that you character, in addition to being a strong magic-user, will be really good at using missile weapons. A strong Intuition, on the other hand, means that your character, in addition to being strong at magic, will be really good both at picking up sublte social cues and putting people at ease and being diplomatic, which is always very good if you want your character to avoid suspicion and unwanted attention.
But enough about my favorites, what’s your favorites?
I mentioned my career preferences earlier; I always go for magic-oriented abilities during my first run through a game, then branch out with later characters. Magic is just fun, and so much can be done with it.
I’m also an inveterate player of elves, though again, I branch out to other races on subsequent runs. I’ve definitely enjoyed playing a brownie since they’re not a typical choice in fantasy games.
I only ever play humans when given the chance like here. I have zero interest in playing other races.
In Evertree Saga it’s always a human man from Blackstone, because I prefer playing shady characters who are morally ambiguous at best and grow up under circumstances that basically rail them into a career on the wrong side of the law from early on. And Blackstone reminds me of the district I call my home in real life. It’s a bit of a shithole, but it’s MY shithole.
While romancing L that MC had a chance at “redemption” and even declined working for Imperion, while Hayden on the other hand is corrupting him further by the minute, and not even in the productive way by making him a better killer, but by leading him astray and totally making him lose any focus and ambition.
The skills reflect all that. I prefer being stealthy and sneaky, with good observation skills to let me see opportunities to strike, but I’m also always physically very capable as a back up plan, with a graceful, nimble fighting style. I lack in the spellcasting and will department, because I never use magic. The only time I did, it was to have a playthrough where I, as a player, could learn more about a few people by reading their minds to generally extend my knowledge of them.
I really wish the assassin path in Lux was more like The Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion and less like … well, what we got. I’ll give it another try, maybe it gets better. If not, the thief career will always wait for me, and I’m genuinely interested in finding out what that eccentric, rich dude’s deal is. But I really hate working for Brushgather. Realizing the same halfling I once held out of a window was now my boss, was one of my highlights while playing the series. I wish someone had taken a pic of my & my MC’s faces as they dropped as we recognized him.
Gunther is best orc friend (and unrequited crush) for my female Elf Battlemage/Investigator. Even if we don’t end up with him, I hope that we can remain friends.
Orion and Gunther for me. I think my asexual brain just has a hard time with the insta-romances we get in the first game, I need more time to work myself into my characters’ heads that way.
I also have a hard time with how fast the romances move in the first game even though Dandy is one of my favorite characters, and I voted him and Orion as my favorite romances. It just feels so unatural since the first game only takes place over one day.
I fully agree, and L is even worse in this regard than D in my opinion, because the relationship with D has a big focus on the sex, and hanky-panky on the first day is more realistic than true love.
For me it’s much easier to accept love at first sight than sex at first sight. In fact, I basically have to headcanon away that entire first encounter with Dandy, because I just… can’t wrap my mind around it. I can accept it as a way some people behave, but I can’t imagine up a character who would do it, it’s too alien to me.
I meant no disrespect to ace people by stating that, but generally speaking, casually hooking up is pretty common. Surely not for everyone, but there’s a reason Tinder and Grindr are so popular. It’s not for me either, but it’s a valid option for many. But I don’t even think we disagree on that.
What I don’t understand, though: I can see how you could develop a crush / infatuation at first sight, but love? And that’s my problem with L. They don’t come across like they simply have a crush. The scene at the well frames the MC as the savior and true love they’ve been waiting for the entire time, and that’s crossing the line into the unrealistic territory for me. L has seen some shit in their life, trusting a stranger like that and throwing their hopes and dreams at them seems a bit too gullible, for someone who gets rid of corpses.
To be honest the relationship with L doesn’t feel quite like love to me, even after three books, but the concept of love is such a variable and complex thing that I can just shrug and go along with it. I may even borrow the concept for my K-mancer - make 'em an outwardly hardened, secret romantic who falls like a ton of bricks for K on that first date. I imagine it won’t go well in the next game…
I see Dandy as lust at first sight. The books make him sound absolutely gorgeous plus he’s so flirty and full of himself (to hide somethings perhaps) and I love it. He’s funny.
By Sordwin I think it’s closer to love but who knows. Love is such a complicated thing. I love how he first wants a threesome and then changes his mind once he realizes MC slept with Winter on her own.
Lust at first sight is a good way to put it when it comes to Dandy (same goes for Winter). But I will never understand Dandy’s appeal. He comes across as so try-hard and cringe… Like, everything that comes so natural to Hayden, their entire seductiveness, is Dandy totally lacking. He couldn’t be more unattractive to me personally.
But with regards to the threesome, wasn’t it that he only brought the sailor into the mix at the beginning, because he felt he had to, because he was worried he wouldn’t be enough for the MC? And MC would get bored with him? If you say no to the threesome, Dandy will actually hold you suspiciously close to his body (like he was relieved), and when he kisses Winter, his smile is empty. Like, wasn’t that Dandy’s entire Sordwin arc, that he felt he wasn’t enough and wouldn’t be able to keep MC?
