discrimination is today a feeling psychological think as a physical I agree with @Havenstone eloquence words more than I could use. I don’t have anything against noone or games is how could the words, thinks could be done also I don’t want offend other people who don’t feel discriminate being consider determined way because my race of gender. Vendetta is isn’t racist only show a tipical situation in that historical moment.
@Marajade My point is anything can offend someone even small can be offensive my thing is… can you look past being offended so easily I seen like three posts maybe way more where you go Thats offensive to women, when truly anything can be offensive and anything can be seen as sexist like I just said, “A guy could claim, this post is descriminating against guys” since it wants a female writer, just saying
Lol, well this discussion certainly got interesting
Back to the main topic, the reason I felt the need for a female writer and more importantly why the female line should be different is because I don’t like games that require you to follow the same pathway every time. For example, Choice of Zombies requires you to end up at the final location (not naming just in case someone hasn’t played it). I’m trying to create a game that cause every action to greatly affect how you will experience the rest of the game. For example (and this is an example, this won’t be in my game), a demon could appear and have different actions for the different genders. A woman might find herself at risk of being raped and thus battle the demon from afar, while a man might find the demon trying to eat him and this battle in heavy armor.
Now as far as I’ve planned there won’t be a possible demon rape scene, but there will be differences between every play through, starting with what gender you are. And back to why I don’t want to write it, I could defiantly write for the character, giving them options I think a girl would use, but I also have to write for the NPCs of this game, and they will have to react to these actions. Already on the guy track I’m finding problems with how a very stuck-up girl would react to a possible action.
*raises hand* can I be a zombie?
I think the most important thing in writing immersive characters in Choice games is that you either
- give enough options to allow the player to create (almost) every character he likes; in that case you should also include possibilities to play a man who acts in a stereotypical feminine way or a woman who acts stereotypically male
or (and in most cases a combination of both)
- set up one or more fix characters that you think are interesting enough so that the readers enjoy playing them. Here you could of course also decide to have the tough super-male testosteron-hero or a sexy clichee-scream queen girly or whatever you like… What kind of female characters would YOU want to have in your game?
I have some years of experience as a storyteller in pen&paper-RPGs. As such I played a lot of female characters. I NEVER had a single moment where one of the female players corrected me that a woman would not act like that.
When I play a woman I don’t think about playing a woman. I play them as a human with individual personality with a slight shifts of average interests, behaviour etc.
If you write about only one individual woman I don’t think there are many things that would be normal for men, but not for women… as long as you don’t plan to creat a story where the male protagonist would be a mix of Hulk Hogan and Al Bundy.
I already do a something near rape in my game demo so feel free to do it in the female path or male
I read it in your story and I hated it. I would not include something like that if it was not really important for the story, in which way I would start the game with a
“Already on the guy track I’m finding problems with how a very stuck-up girl would react to a possible action.”
Could you give one example of a situation where you had such problems? Maybe I could help you to get a method to solve such situations.
@loelet is really important show it how a dictatorship system treat woman and men like dogs and trash and I’m creating a censore system and a warning for the demo is doing with the intention to denounce a totalitarian system and there aren’t a real rape robots not doing nothing sexual only try to proboque pain and suffer for testing proposes.
@2Ton there is a difference between actually being sexist, and appearing to be sexist but not- look at the film ‘Blazing Saddles’ for a perfect example of how that is accomplished with racism. Although it used a lot of racist language, it was actually showing how foolish racism is.
And sometimes, on your point of saying this post could be viewed as discriminative by a guy, sometimes discrimination is needed- you wouldn’t pick a small person to be a fighter pilot if they couldn’t reach the control panel, so you need to discriminate against small people. You wouldn’t pick a man to clean the female toilets, so you need to discriminate against males. The list goes on and on, and so if you wanted to write a story largely based on being female you may want a female writer. Just saying, @MaraJade has a valid point, and we should all respect her opinion
@loelet What I’m dealing with right now is you’re bored in class and one option is to text. Among the people you can text are 3 previously mentioned attractive girls. Among these you can chose to either send a friend-style text, a cool-guy flirt text, or a perverted text. The three girl’s personalities are essentially a whore, a very talented stuck up girl, and a very protective and shy girl. The reason I feel like I’m botching it is because the reactions I have are too predictable and don’t provide any sense of “I did not expect that!”
For most games it would really piss people off to not have something they can predict, but the point of this game is the day is repeating, so if you don’t like how someone reacted you can try again to get a different reaction. Now of course I’m going to have more than just playing the same day over and over, but as that is a main part I really need these characters to have depth and meaning to their personalities.
@MaraJade Why don’t you provide an option to skip the scenes and if the player selects that gift them a very watered down and brief summary of what happened. Kinda like what they do in AlterEgo
If you want an explanation what problems I had with that scene, I could tell you in your thread. I know that it was meant to show some of the cruel sides of your setting.
In this thread I just wanted to give another opinion. I think including a monopol for specific violent scenes against female protagonists in a game, is a difficult thing to handle. If it as done as a part of “realism” than I don’t think that a Zombie game has any reason to treat genders differently - I don’t think that Zombies care about that very much… and I also think that demons wouldn’t care much about it.
(btw: homophobic demons would be an interesting twist… Take this, conservative christs!)
I think I confused something… you don’t make a zombie game…
If you include gender-only options, I would make them less gender-specific but more individually specific. There are tough and strong female Karatekas and pretty male cowards who hope to convince zombies with a nice smile to let them go.
If your female protagonist is the school slut, the shy nerd-girl, the stupid cheerleader or the nice girl-next-door, go for it.
You can’t write a wrong character. There are so many strange people out there…
But if you can choose and build your own character… and then the game tells you that no matter what kind of girl you are, your only chance of leaving the building is by taking off your shirt - THAT’S weird.
@Redgrave Im not the one saying its descriminating here, I just used that as an example of why she shouldnt be so sensitive, very backwards bro, just was saying stuff like that does happen but no one here is trying to opress anyone
@xmaslightguy yes that’s what doing now but I was a code newie then and didnt know how do it the code and I want a sledgehammer test to show the illness of my game political regime
also with the girls break the stereotypes a bit is fun or make it depends of the player interactions you treat her that way she acts x or y
@2Ton I definitely know that nobody here is trying to oppress certain groups! Although I may have misinterpreted some of your posts… Anyway, if I caused any offence, I apologise!
Clearly I missed out on a lot.
“Among these you can chose to either send a friend-style text, a cool-guy flirt text, or a perverted text.”
Ok, I see your point… May I ask you, how old you are? Because that sounds to more like one of those “I don’t know how to treat girls”-problems… most of us had those in one way or the other and of course it helps to create an immersive realistic atmosphere if you know how your protagonasists feel.
So, I hope I don’t sound arrogant, if I say:
Uaaaaaaaaa! I don’t even feel like you had an idea of how I think as a man.
3 girls and the only thing I check is wether they were goodlooking to decide, based on that information that they really are, in what clumsy way I should try to get their attention?
I hope that didn’t sound to hard. As I said: It’s YOUR story and if YOUR idea includes playing a pubescent guy, who can’t think another option - go for it. Make playing him a nice experience!
(I only wanted to highlight that example that you should not focus too hard on that gender-thing. I’m a 26-yo German Mathematics-student with a lot of individual stuff and fluff and, you know… I don’t know which part of my brain works differntly than yours and why - but I do know, that we think differently and it’s obviously not because of our gender.)
But, let’s help you:
How could a guy act, if a girl would write you a friendly text. You could say “Oh that’s nice.” and just answer… or not answer because you listen to the teacher. You could interprete it as a shy start of a flirt. You could…
oh, it would take weeks to write down every possible reaction but many of them would result in something like
- answering (more or less confident and friendly)
- absolutely no reaction (because of different reasons)
- talking to friends (with more or less giggling)
So, how to decide?
By thinking about the personalities of the characters. Take the “whore”:
Is she some kind of stupid giggling beauty - maybe the naive cheerleader looking for the big love who gets fooled over and over again? Or is she a self-confident girl who enjoys to live out her sexuality? Or maybe she is absolutely not self-confident, feels ugly and needs a lot of attention to feel good?
(**) Maybe her parents got divorced and she needs a feeling of love and security, but at the same moment does not allow own feelings, since (although one part of her desperately cries for love) she lost her believe in true love. (**)
Take the last example (the one between the stars):
SHE could like a nice friendly text, because it makes her feel good to get friendly attention - and you also don’t trigger any sorrows, since it has nothing to do with love or romance.
A flirt-text could be complicated (and as such interesting - if you have to repeat that day, you’re looking for difficult characters, aren’t you?):Depending on whether she likes you and what exactly your wrote, there’s a high probability that she acts exactly the other way around than you expect.
If she had a crush on you, she could be afraid of having a chance to start dating with you… which means she had to let her feelings out of control - which could result in getting hurt. So, she could get afraid and could overreact to make you stop.
So… *drum roll* …here we have one of those strange “why the hell are girls so strange” situations:
If she had a crush on you and you wrote her the perfect letter, she could call you an idiot and tell you to piss off.
If she didn’t have a crush on you, she could like that maybe you had one on her, which would give her the feeling of being love without emotional risk for her - so she flirts back, dates you,…
The perverted text for that girl:
I think our “whore”-character would not like that. She wants boys to find distraction from her problems and feel loved - not to be treated like a whore. I don’t think she would find it very funny, since she probably would think you wanted to insult her or just lay her.
So - my approach:
Don’t think how a woman/girl would react - think about the woman. Think about why she fits in that clichee you want her to fit in. Think about what made her and makes her the way she is. And then, when you write out of her perspective, do it inspired by her background, not by her clichee.
No one can control whether someone else feels offended by their actions or not. That’s really something solely dependent on the offended party. And everyone has just as much of a right to feel offended by something as they do to not feel offended. It’s their own personal opinion and feelings, so it can’t be incorrect. Still, I can’t imagine anyone here has malicious intent one way or the other.
Perhaps @Ioelet is right in that you’re putting too much emphasis on different genders when you should really be more concerned about different personality types, but as long as it makes sense, the different gender-specific scenes shouldn’t be too much of an issue. Just use your best judgement on how you think things should play out and let beta testers review it then. I’m sure it won’t seem too far off track from the female POV as you think it will.