Jolly Good: Tea and Scones

Generally, yes, but… I don’t know how to explain this in English. I’m not doing well today and can’t concentrate.

There is something about Fitzie just like Haze in Tally Ho that feels different than the rest (of the cast and the world) and sticks out. With Haze it was the whole mental health theme mostly (but other factors, too) and the way it was handled. With Fitzie, it’s - among other things - his past. They act more realistically.

Both Fitzie and Haze have always felt to me while reading as if two real actors had been put in a cartoon movie. Which sounds like criticizm but isn’t meant as one, just something I noticed.

That’s why I wouldn’t actually be that surprised if the problematic nature of the relationship came up, because it would concern the one realistic character who I can see bringing something like this up. I just hope it won’t be the case, because as I had explained earlier, it would dampen my enjoyment.

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I hope you feel better soon. :frowning_face:

It… sort of already did, lightly? When you’re getting dressed, one of the questions you can ask Fitzie results in you learning that they already got fired at least once over a relationship with their employer.

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I also remember it coming up in a rather tense argument with Fitzie, and I’m pretty sure someone says the Cadbury Club frowns on such relationships (which might just make it more tempting for all concerned!). So the issue is there in a sort of low-key way and it drives some of the things Fitzie does, but so far the game’s attitude has just been “This might be a bad idea, it has been before” and not “YOU ARE WRONG FOR LIKING THIS.”

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Thank you. It’s a bit difficult now with what’s happening in the world, but yeah.

Yeah, no, I mean, you’re right about this happening, but it is and does actually the exact opposite of what I meant.

I’ll try to explain it better:

Fitzie telling you this heavily feeds into this whole “forbidden fruit” trope, and only manages to add to the appeal of pursuing something with him. By saying that, he poses a challenge, and I personally went from “curiosity” to “attention” right this moment, because in a player like me, this only triggers the classic “I want it, because I can’t have it”, predatory response. And there is no way I believe an experienced writer like Gower doesn’t know exactly what he’s doing and what effect it has on readers who like this popular trope, if he lets a RO say something like that (I mean, Fitzie’s awesome dom energy during the balcony scene actually showed how good he’s at writing this kind of dynamic and how aware he’s of it).

So, long story short, reading about Fitzie’s past experiences with his employers plus the way the game frames this, feels to me like endorsement, and acknowledgement of some players being into this type of relationship and dynamic.

Now, if Fitzie were to quit his job to create an equal playing field, and because of the general imbalance of power in the boss-employee relationship, that would feel like the opposite of endorsement, it would feel moralizing, and maybe even worse, totally boring to me.
That’s not a juicy, forbidden fruit anymore, but a bland coffee during the break of a “work ethics 101” seminar.

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There’s a power dynamic alright, but in my case it’s always Fitzie who has all the power :joy: He even comments on how MC behaves like a puppy for being obedient. I’m paying that clown to order me around :joy:

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Any tips on how to get a sponsor besides Spud Nuggets?

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There was another sponsor I got, with high Dignity and low Scandal if I’m remembering correctly

The one mentioned above is probably the Well-Bred Ladies’ Garden Club club run by Aunt Primrose; it may be tied to intellect or culture as well as dignity. You can also get Spectacles Coffee (with - I think - high scandal), the Royal Adventurers’ Brigade (high boldness?) or a Mysterious Benefactor (high skullduggery I would assume).

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A brief primer on getting other sponsors:

Summary

To get The Royal Adventurers’ Brigade, you need at least 55 Renown, at least 35 Reputation with Uncle Chum, and to have asked Uncle Chum to pay for things no more than twice.

To get The Well-Bred Ladies’ Garden Club, you need at least 50 Dignity, at least 50 Reputation with Aunt Matilda, and Scandal no greater than 60.

To get Spectacles Coffee, you need at least 50 Revolution and 60 Scandal.

To get the Mysterious Benefactor, you need at least 60 Reputation with Fitzie as well as either at least 45 Skullduggery or other successful thievery throughout the story (in particular, you need to have succeeded in stealing the pearl from the hotel, stealing the letter from the Cadbury Club, convincing Arabella to give you her necklace, or committing at least four acts of petty theft).

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Hey! The MC can send a letter to Uncle Chum by themselves without any issue! :triumph: (well, if you remove getting chased by creditors across the streets)

Hmmm… why do I have an inkling that this could be the MC and Starling’s relationship in game …… :thinking::face_with_raised_eyebrow:

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i got a little unhinged and wrote up a long response to your thoughts! tl;dr i agree with you and i think fitzie/MC is hot as hell, but i also think there are a lot of complicated emotions at play that would make the relationship compelling even if someone tries to level the playing field.

spoilered mainly because i dont really know forum etiquette yet! EDIT: wow holy shit this is so much sorry. forum regulars should i maybe take it down?

the thing about fitzie/MC is that fitzie is both embarrassingly hopeful & extremely vulnerable.

if you go through the code and find the points where fitzie can develop feelings for you, “*set fitziecrush true” is almost always triggered at a moment where the MC objectively states that they like fitzie as a person, enjoy their company, or otherwise respect them. this number is followed by moments where the MC is romantic/alluring towards or around fitzie, then followed by moments where u just really nail a skill check (successfully moving the table with brains or brawn comes to mind).

to me, this implies that fitzie is primarily interested in people that accept them as they are, which makes me think they can’t help but get their hopes up when someone invites them into their life. fitzie craves a comfortable, safe home filled with love – and it’s clear that this has been denied to them over and over. moments where an observant MC can see a “truer” version of fitzie slip through describe it as, “the look of someone who has touched a hot stove just to see if it will hurt them” (heavily paraphrasing gower’s incredible character writing here). fitzie has high walls, but will clamber over them if they think they could pursue a romance. it would be interesting to talk about why they want specifically romantic safety, but i’ll chalk it up to genre for the moment and move on.

an important complication arises between wanting to touch the hot stove and genuinely fearing the pain that will come from it.

fitzie finds the forbidden element attractive, there’s no doubt about that – but we can also see that fitize has their own moral compunctions about it. they don’t want to get taken advantage of again, and they knows how much power the MC has over them. even when fitzie has the upperhand, they’re still an employee with no safety net. the kindest, most loyal MC is still an aristocrat.

which is why fitzie won’t kiss the MC during the cab convo unless you show genuine interest in them. if you try to dance around your feelings the way fitizie conceals theirs, they won’t have the level of comfort/safety they need to actually kiss you. it’s still forbidden, and it’s still hot (thank you gower), but the reasoning behind fitzie’s actions as a character are more based in their hope for a happy ending rather than the sexy power dynamics at play.

this is kinda corroborated by the fact that the ch8 scenes – as compelling as they are – don’t culminate in a kiss. the only other time fitizie will kiss you is during the vice president scene, after you’ve publicly announced your loyalty to them.

this isn’t to say the relationship itself is meant to be moralizing! I’m trying to address the complexity in this character, which is what sets them apart from the other ROs (for me). fitzie likes this dynamic, they find it hot, and so does the MC. fitzie is also scared of this dynamic, because they have so much experience with being objectified and mistreated because of it. holding both of these truths in your head can change the perspective you might have when reading the text.

for example, they have a line in ch6 where they claim that “neither [the MC or fitzie] authentically like each other].” we can see in the code that this isn’t true of fitzie, and we know as the player that it isn’t true of the character. so why does fitzie say it?

it’s a test born of their contradictory nature. they have to constantly the MC’s feelings, because they have no way of reading the code or knowing the player’s intentions. consistent with the logic of the world and of fitzie’s lived experience, asking the MC to wear their heart of their sleeve is the only way fitzie can potentially protect their own feelings. i assume this is a part of the relationship ppl might not like – fitzie is a demanding RO. they’re also achingly vulnerable if you can see them clearly, because they aren’t testing you in hopes that you fail. they want you to prove them wrong! they can’t help themselves!

from the outset of your relationship, no matter how you play it, fitzie has to rest all their hopes on the MC. no matter how you treat them, or whether you even respect them as a person, fitzie needs you. they will ask for your help regardless of your reputation with them in the early chapters (a very compelling moment of form helping to shape the character, since gower as a writer has to offer some choices to everyone off the bat). this means that the only good outcome for fitzie is that you will care for them and want to take care of them. ultimately, the relationship isn’t even about the external forces at play that forbid the relationship and make it exciting. the real reason fitzie struggles with their feelings for the MC is that, while a romantic relationship offers the best possible version of the above outcome, they have only ever experienced it through the lens of someone wanting something they can’t have and being disappointed when they get it.

in other words, fitzie’s only option is to trust that the MC authentically likes them, but all prior experience points towards failure.

for me, that’s what makes the power dynamic so intensely compelling. it’s about finding the right person for you and not being able to rely on it because of a system outside of both of your control, and trying to assert control wherever possible, but also not being in control of your own stupid, hopeful heart!

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No, no, it’s cool, just…Yooooo… Holy shit, I’ll need time to think and reply to that! (And thank you for making me realize what I’m doing to people with my Hayden Winter essays)

But it’s all really interesting! Just a warning, you are a waaaaayyyyy bigger fan of this character than I am, so my response will probably disappoint you, because my interest is definitely more shallow than yours!

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That was an amazing read. It was so interesting that I found it short! Hehe. I was always a bit confused about why Fitzie did (or didn’t do) some things, but now I have a clearer picture. And I love them even more :sneezing_face: I never got the car kiss, and now I can theorize why. My MC is kind and loyal, as you said, but she’s also on the shy/proper side. Fitzie needed her to openly explain what she wanted and felt, and she couldn’t. And if she couldn’t, neither could he. Aww, this is sad but with a happy ending! As you said, things changed when MC made him vicepresident despite the opposition.

Now I feel bad thinking about what will happen once Starling is part of the equation. Oof. But I’d love to read a similar analysis on Starling once Tea and Scones is out! If you happen to be in the mood when the time comes :relaxed:

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I’d also like to elaborate on your points :

Regarding Fitzie it can definetly be said that majority of their dynamic with MC stems from not only their past relationship with former employers but also due to being abandonned by their parents in the orphanage. They’ve been abandonned before, they’re used to being abandonned but that does not mean they don’t fear it anymore. Infact, it seems that those experiences just worsened their abandonment issue.

As much as Fitzie dislike the Cadbury club it also seems that they have some sort of attachment to it. They seem to have a habit of attaching themselves too fast and too easily as evident with what you can dig up from the text and game code. MC is their last chance to stay on the Cadbury before being kicked out. MC has tons of power over Fitzie even if Fitzie themselves might have an upperhand over the MC. One word from the MC is all it takes for Fitzie to lose the MC AND the Cadbury club. So, Fitzie’s action in this case is less of them being a quirky, atypical servant but also a SURVIVAL TACTIC. If MC fires them, they’ll also be cut out from their livelyhood. And, they don’t know what to do after. They even, jokingly, asked the MC what they should do after their done with being a servant.

Another character who reminds me of Fitzie, is ironically, Rory.

INCOMING RORY RANT!!!!

While Rory themselves doesn’t seem to latch on to anyone who treats them as their own individual like Fitzie, Rory does seem to form strong attachments to anyone who sticks with them through thick and thin. Remember, that Rory themselves grew up with as an orphan and was constantly thrown around from aunt to aunt as they grow up. They probably felt insecure or lacked security about their position in the family as one wrong move and they get moved on to another aunt. Hence why, I hypothesize, that Rory seems so… mediocre in everything. Rory probably felt that by being decent in anything that would prevent them from being abandonned by their current caretaker but, even then this countermeasuere falls through due to their aunts impossibly high standards.

I also find it interesting that the ROs have some sort of unity or theme going on with them. Like how the Tally Ho ROs seemed to be at a stage of their metamorphosis stage, the Jolly Good ROs seemed to be haunted by something wheter it is by better yesteryears, the past, looming family responsibilty.

From what I’ve seen so far, Starling seems to be haunted with their reputation. They’re a perfect servant, the creme on the crop. They have a reputation to uphold and maintain. I wouldn’t be too suprised if this need for them to be utterly perfect is the cause of them to cut ties with the MC when they needed them the most. And, I wouldn’t be too suprised if this becomes part of the conflict. They might feel the need to BE perfect but the MC’s relationship might be just as important which conflicts with the former.

Anyway, sorry for all of this. I just thought it would be fun to add something to conversation which ended up spiralling like this. I’m not as eloquent but I hope everyone enjoyed this :smiling_face:

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Ok, so I’ve given this some thought and my biggest takeaway from your post has nothing to do with its actual content: That I have a good reason why I’m personally not a code-reader. I’m absolutely not (!) blaming you here, because you put it in spoilers and no one forced me to read all this, but I feel like you have drawn away the curtain from this character and made me experience and see them in a way I “wasn’t supposed to” (yet). I don’t see a single flaw in your argumentation and reasoning, and this has only managed to lessen my enjoyment of him, because he seems so naked and exposed now, and there seems to be so little left to discover.

And, this aspect aside, it almost triggers anxiety in me when looked at from an in-universe perspective. Yes, I always knew about his abandonement issues, it was always on the back of my mind, but reading all this puts me under an enormous amount of pressure, when I deliberately tried to keep it more on a surface level and make it about sexy power dynamics. I don’t want to have to feel like his therapist. I don’t want this kind of responsibility. It totally freaks me out. I must have been doing something right, whether intended or not, because I always got the kiss scene in the cab. And that was pretty cool, because we both obviously got what we needed out of the relationship so far.

But I’ll work on forgetting your post now, because as great and insightful of a character interpretation that was (and I mean it), I’m personally doing better not knowing that much about him.

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Don’t be! I really enjoyed your analysis too! And Rory happens to be my favorite Tally Ho RO, so I appreciate the addendum :pray:

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Remind me to respond to this whole Fitzie conversation and analysis after Port in a Storm is out.

In other news, here’s the Chapter Four status: I have four vignettes left to write to wrap up Chapter Four–there’s a section where you get to decide who to spend some time with–Chef Heinrich, Lady Blanche, Parsnip, Vyv, or Gilberto, and I’ve just this moment finished the Chef Heinrich one. Vyv and Gilberto in particular needed more love in this chapter.

Since I’ve decided to end Chapter Four before the golf game, I’ve had to shift a few things around to make the plot beats work, but I’m confident that Chapter Four will be in the hands of my editor by mid-March or so.

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What’s this, preciousss?

Boooo.

Bit of a thematic drift from the other two subtitles, but I’ll take it. :passenger_ship: :cloud_with_lightning:

The game company, Blurryvision-Blizzard?

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That’s the third and final part of the Jolly Good series.

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:wine_glass: :snowflake:

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