I'm Sorry, But I Think We Should See Other People - ROs You Hate

Yeah. I prefer nicer RO’s in general, never got the abrasive, domineering ones. They just seem like assholes. I know some people are into that kind of personality, but I never understood why. Same for the dark, moody ones. Admittedly you don’t see as many girl ROs with these traits so most of these RO’s aren’t aimed toward me but even without that as a factor, they’re just really obnoxious.

Honestly it depends on who’s definition of “model relationship” we’re talking here.

Idk anything about Wayhaven so I’m skipping A.

For B, I didn’t actually complete book 4 yet, partly because of an early scene with Junko that put me on edge. It’s a Yandere route so obviously things are going to be rather fucked up, it comes with the package. I can count the number of Yandere romances I’ve seen that don’t end terribly for one or both parties on one hand, though the ones that do fit that criterion are some of my favorite romances period. Usually, the main appeal of that niche sub-subgenre is figuring out why the RO in question is like that and helping them through it to make things actually work. Those are basically the only ones that work for me, the others are just too fucked up. I’m not sure if that’d work for Junko though. It might, but there’s some things (even before book 4 apparently went all the way off the deep end) that make her seem more like a domestic abuser than anything. Considering what a Yandere IS, that’s not surprising but it alienates a lot of people. It’s an odd needle to thread.

Honestly, I don’t think Junko would be such a problem for so many people on her own. The problem is with SOH itself. I love the series but it’s far, FAR too linear for a CYOA game. You don’t actually pick your adventure; your choices feel like window dressing. If Junko was like other villain ROs, where you’re free to want nothing to do with her on her own (even if you were definitely involved in the past), it’d be fine bc only people into villain ROs of that flavor would go for it. But there’s no choice. At this point rather than just being a character, Junko becomes the personification of railroading. A crazy ex who enslaves you and forces you to follow a linear plot. People who prefer the other ROs (and hopefully you can actually go with another of the ones being set up. Otherwise, what’s the point?) won’t like being forced to go for this one, and it’s the one with the most niche audience at that, but even people who do would like to be able to explore other routes. It’s like if Monika from Doki Doki wrote her own dating sim.

That brings us to D: how to make the villain RO’s more appealing. The trouble is that there’s three camps when it comes to this sort of thing. The first camp doesn’t like romancing villains as a matter of course. Some people in this camp may find more sympathetic villains attractive sometimes but by and large, they won’t really go for it.

The second camp is people who want to redeem the villains. A villain that pulls a face-turn because of the romance will please these people. Tragic villains, well-intentioned extremists, minions that are being manipulated or have been conditioned since childhood, right hands that serve their masters out of personal loyalty rather than any real interest in their schemes, brainwashed minions, or villains that are just plain fun and charismatic and not too irredeemably evil (unless you’re one of those types willing to forgive murder because of character development, I’m sure not). Those villains tend to work best for that sort of thing, though some may fawn all over truly vile villains and try to act like they’re one of these types because they’re hot also exist.

Then there’s the third camp who don’t want any kind of redemption. They find the villain sexy BECAUSE they’re evil and changing them would spoil that. There’s a lot of people who like the domineering, demeaning ones in this camp. I can’t really elaborate because honestly, I don’t understand the appeal.

The issue is that while the first camp is usually fine so long as they don’t need to romance the villain (unless attraction is implied regardless), the latter two are mutually exclusive 9 times out of 10. It’s incredibly difficult for one villainous RO to fit both molds. You’d need two separate arcs. Far easier would be two separate villain ROs. One with a redemption arc, and one without. How easy this is depends on whether you had any candidates you could use for another route, or if you have any ideas for a new one.

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… I need to use that.

And one sympathetic antivillain for a good measure, in case some of the camp A would be interested.

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Hm, well I’m definitively never in the second camp, but I think I can be in either the first or the third depending on the RO and my MC. Most often the first, but that may just be de facto.

I’m kinda just not interested in changing people. Whether I’m interested or not depends on whether I’m interested without any changes, and that is really dependent on the RO and the MC.

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I think this is the first time I’ve ever met someone in the first and third camps but not the second.

Once again I have to say reading through all these opinions about WHC has been interesting and somewhat opened my eyes on certain matters especially the more I read other books. I’ll probably still read it regardless and hope it improves on certain aspects but even if it doesn’t there are always other things for me to enjoy.

  • From a Natmancer
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For RO’s I dislike (That isn’t friggin Wayhaven Chronicles have some variety in this topic gang pretty much everything about them has been said) I tend to dislike the more generically nice type

They’re not bad characters per say but give me some spice! Some drama!

Also I’d like more games where the ROS can take the initiative and not the MC. I want to play more shy characters who wouldn’t just openly flirt with someone first

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This thread has made me genuinely tempted to try out Samurai of Hyuga, just to experience what you all have been talking about (have not read the series before, at all) :slight_smile:

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I agree with point B. I don’t like being the flirty one all the time. I hate predicting the character reactions and stuff. I’m pretty introverted too, so playing the one who takes initiative can be a bit awkward.

Point A is where our opinions diverge. I like the nice ones. I like drama, but I like to at least get along with the RO most of the time. I prefer my drama from other sources.

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Yeah, I find the ‘nice’ romances make for a satisfying contrast considering all the shit most MCs go through in their day-to-day. The RO acting as the anchor rather than the storm is an underrated dynamic imo.

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If you haven’t already, try out Arcadie and romance Cyril, healthiest relationship in CoGs so far.

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I don’t self-insert, so it’s not a problem for me personally to play a MC that is forced to make all the moves on the RO, but I like to make different OCs for games, and get sick of always having to make them so overt that they come off creepy or so shy and flusterable that it makes me want to barf.

Honestly, I think authors are afraid to make a RO that is the one to make the first move or to be the one to instigate things with the MC because there are a few that are so vocal about it triggering them. The way I see it, stick a warning on it and let them avoid that RO if they want. No need to punish all of us for it.

I agree with this. As for “nice” ROs… eh, they tend to be too submissive and unnaturally agreeable to me. It’s not that I need drama (by any stretch of the imagination), but I like ROs that will bicker with the MC, be snarky (in a flirty or lighthearted way), and not hesitate to push back if the MC pushes them. So, like A or M from Wayhaven, minus the dragged out, over-the-top, overwrought emotional bullshit (i.e., let them be themselves, but do it while in a budding relationship, not the never-ending hot/cold, push/pull, playing-with-the-MC’s-head crap that we’ll have to put up with for another three books.

ROs who aren’t syrupy sweet can do this, too. In fact, they can often be better at it than the overly soft ones, because the whole “us against the world” thing is easier to pull off with a RO who isn’t worried about a vase being broken…

I just like some spice from the RO, without it always being about the RO refusing to be with the MC or being too stupid to understand their own feelings.

And one more thing… I get the necessity for consent, but I get extremely sick of reading interactions between two characters who’ve done the do and are clearly comfortable with each other physically that start with asking for consent to do something minor or, in the middle of starting to get it on with them, them asking if they’re sure. It’s enough to kill the mood and annoy some of my MC’s.

So maybe there should be some setting to toggle that off. Or add an option for the MC to shrug off the touch or run away or something.

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i don’t really self-insert most of the time either. I just play what kind of character seems most interesting. Picking the flirty options can still be a bit awkward for me still, but that’s not the only issue. The other stuff applies as well.

I feel like we have different definitions of “nice”. Mine is broad enough to include everything listed. I figured you meant like, tsunderes and such (which are fine too, but easy to screw up in writing).

Hey y’all it’s ya boy. So i don’t know know if any of you have read Project Hadea but Rohan absolutely, positively deserves to be on this list. Never in my life have i i felt so disrespected and used by a character than this prick. Yet there is something about them that keeps me coming back

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That a WIP?

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Yeah, just on itch.io (not meant to link, pls ignore), not here.

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If I remember correctly, the last time Project Hadea came up, it was eventually ruled that the topic should try and stick to CoG games only.

Not trying to be an ass, just letting you know. Though there was some spirited discussion about Rohan in the previous Hadea discussion, I will say. You’re certainly not the only one thinking like this.

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Ah crap, my bad. It’s been awhile since I been on this thread so I must have missed that

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Not many ROs I straight up hate. Even if they’re not my type, there’s usually something I can appreciate.

I think the worst kind are the ones that don’t leave a lasting impression because they’re just tacked on, and just… there

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Tom from Zombie Exodus, and honestly, Devlin too. The former, if you’ve played the game, you know why… and the latter, he’s just such a creep that I couldn’t possibly give him a chance to “prove” himself worthy of my MC. (I think 2012 was the age of the Lovable Misogynist type character… barf. Not that I don’t like Jim Dattilo’s work, but the male ROs in that game were not it.)

Other than that, Karson from Creme de La Creme?? I thought they’d be one of the best ROs, but when my MC ended up escaping from that Schroeder lady, Karson just betrays his gf (he was a guy in my playthrough) and points her out, then acts like nothing happened and MC “forgave” him-- news flash Karson, I didn’t!

I agree with OP that M’s plot was lacking in emotional connection, if that’s what you want out of an RO.

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Rosario and Hartmann are where it’s at for ROs in CdlC. Freddie is a close second.

I know that what I said is RO love, not RO hate, but still, they are the best.

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